Applauding Executions Might be American, but it is not Christian

[rug]

I must admit I rarely comment in this manner about things that I did not see or hear firsthand, but like so many who might not have watched the GOP debate last night, my interest was piqued when I began to see tweets about the applause Governor Rick Perry (R-TX) received for his answer about Texas executions. Apparently when talking about the number of people who were executed in Texas under his watch, the audience expressed great approval in the form of applause and cheering.

Surely this could not be true.

To find out if it really happened, I posted a status update on FB asking if it was true. Now unless all the folks who responded watched a different debate or there was a serious conspiracy in play, the response was an overwhelming and consistent, “Yep, it happened.” Yes indeed, the crowd gathered in Simi Valley for the GOP presidential primary debate applauded for the number of executions that have taken place in Texas during Perry’s time in office.

From Politico – Rick Perry, who received tremendous applause from the in-house debate crowd at the mention by Brian Williams of the 234 people executed on his watch in Texas, defended his record:

“'I never struggled with that at all. The state of Texas has a very thoughtful a very clear process in place,” he said, describing why he’s never second-guessed the guilt of any of the people executed on his watch.

"'If you come into our state and you kill one of our children (or a police officer)….you will face the ultimate justice in the state of Texas and that is you will be executed.'

"Asked about the applause, he said, 'I think Americans understand justice.'”

Not sure what emotion I feel most: anger, sadness, disappointment . . .

http://www.patheos.com/community/breyeschow/2011/09/07/perry-death-penalty-american-christian/

[backscatter712]

1. No true Scotsman would ever do such a thing! n/t

[rug]

5. Would a true American?

[Deep13]

9. I'm going to assume Perry's birth certificate and those of the crowd...

...are in order.

[rug]

11. So you answer in the affirmative?

[Deep13]

14. Ay-uh. nt

[cleanhippie]

2. Apparently, it is.

Considering how well that message was received at the GOP shindig...


Unless those are not TRUE christians, of course.

[RKP5637]

3. Those that relish the idea of public executions in the square never went away, they

were just suppressed some. I've come to the conclusion a fair number of Americans are absolutely weird. Executions, OK, if we must, but cheering like at a sports event. Just F'en sick in my book.

[FSogol]

4. It is not American either. n/t

[Boojatta]

6. Don't forget about Central America and South America.

Some pre-Columbian cultures included some rather barbaric religious practices.

I know. I know. That guy Columbus was shockingly pale. However, Michael Jackson had a similar condition.

[backscatter712]

7. Of course, Columbus himself wasn't much of an angel.

Nor were the Conquistadors who followed him.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6299705/conquistadora-the-explorer

[Deep13]

8. Maybe we should bring back the auto-da-fé. nt

[Boojatta]

10. That reminds me of a novel entitled ...

Die Blendung (English title: Auto da Fé).

Link to evidence that the novel has snob appeal if not an actual sheepskin.

[Thats my opinion]

12. The most effective voice against this sort of thing is

"Death Penalty Watch." We have an active chapter here which some of us started, and we are well on the way to getting executions outlawed in California. Be interested to hear what others are doing.

[Deep13]

15. +1

200 executions is an abomination even for Texas.

[cleanhippie]

16. Do you have a link to that group?

Is it a religious group? What are the details of that group?

[Thats my opinion]

21. Death Penalty Watch

Is what happens in local communities each time there is a call for an execution. We watch at the site and work politically beforehand to oppose the action. The umbrella is the Human Rights Watch. These bodies are basically composed of people from churches and other religious institutions, but the groups are not directly affiliated with any religious body

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org

[cleanhippie]

22. So its an organization trying to do good for humanity, and its not religious?

Interesting.

[Thats my opinion]

35. Without the religious workers, advocates and support

the organization could not function. We have never said that these good thing were the sole possession of religious institutions. We cooperate with all people of good will who have similar agendas. Our support of GLBTs, women's rights, labor, peace, justice, economic justice, anti- death penalty etc. etc. etc. are not the possession of any religious institution. But pull religious people, money, support out of any of these and you will have gutted them. And all the while we recognize that perhaps our greatest enemies are fundamentalist religionists who have so misinterpreted and misrepresented the heart of religion that we are continually embarrassed.

[cleanhippie]

37. Are you really syaing that if it weren't for the "religious" poeple, it wouldn't work?

I would ask you to prove that, please.

[Thats my opinion]

24. The groups also go under the name

Death Penalty Focus.

the guru is the professor of Theology at Princeton Theological Seminary--whose name and book title escapes meat the moment.

same web site

[dtexdem]

13. It's as Christian as apple pie.

Has been for nearly two millennia -- ever since Constantine made Xianity into an imperial religion.

[Goblinmonger]

17. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

So no christian ever applauded at, say, the "witches" they burned in Salem.

[rug]

18. Your observation lacks causation.

[Goblinmonger]

19. They were Christian. They executed people. They applauded.

QED

Directly refutes your OP.

[rug]

20. Hitchens supported the Iraq war. Hitchens is an atheist. Atheists support the Iraq war.

QED.

As fallacious as your failed syllogism.

Particularly since yours did not address causation.

It refutes the OP as much as butter refutes broccoli.

[Goblinmonger]

26. I never said that atheists didn't support the war, no did I?

You said Christians don't applaud executions. You were wrong.

I'm sure plenty of atheists supported the war. But you keep building strawmen to make yourself look less like a tool.

[rug]

28. I doubt atheists support the war because of atheism

anymore than Christians applaud executions because they are Christians.

By your logic, an atheist who supports capital punishment would do so because of his atheism.

Co-incidence does not equal causation.

It doesn't even take a tool to demonstrate that. A spoon would do.

[darkstar3]

29. Fred Phelps supports the war because of his Christian beliefs.

He's not the only one. Many Christians in the Bible belt are fully behind the idea of troops in the middle east until the day of Armageddon, and I'll tell you why with a quote from an elder of my old church:

"I've read to the end of the book. They {Isreal} win."

[rug]

30. Why does Hitchens?

[darkstar3]

31. Because he's a flaming bigot.

To be fair, so is Phelps, and to a lesser extent so are the Christians who support the war based on their crazy-ass views on the end of the world. The difference though between the bigotry of Hitchens, and the bigotry of these people, is the religious and biblical support structure behind the latter.

Which, BTW, completely negates the point of the OP.

[Goblinmonger]

32. The Christians that hung witches in Salem

and a great number of other inquisitions were done because of their Christian beliefs. Their applauding of the executions would stem from them believing that they were doing the right thing according to their religion.

[Thats my opinion]

23. And they were terribly wrong

As have many both religious and non-religious people have been over the centuries.

[Goblinmonger]

27. I agree with you. The OP makes a claim that Christians don't do that.

I provided one of many examples that they do to disprove the claim.

[Thats my opinion]

40. obviously millions of Christians do. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

25. My interpretation of the biblical quote in the article is Jesus Christ forbids all CP and prison.

According to my interpretation, even locking up child molesting, serial killers is anti-Christ. But my interpretation is no more valid or invalid than anyone else's interpretation.

I assume most Christians will disagree with my interpretation. The passage does not specifically mention prison or execution, so there is some room for interpretation. I can a see a Christian sincerely believing in CP if it is not too painful.

[trotsky]

33. Many people think that forcing a woman to bear the child of her rapist is not Christian.

Do you agree, rug? Or are those people not Christians?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. Protestants burned people at the stake too.

John Calvin had Michael Servetus, barbecued at the stake in Geneva.
Servetus was the first Unitarian and against infant baptism and that enraged Calvin.

Jesus was all in favor of slaughtering the innocent.


Just a few examples, starting with MARK:

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and gives the vineyard to others. 12:1-9

Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 14:22-24

Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16

============

Luke


God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5

According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27

Jesus tells his disciples to eat his body and drink his blood. 22:19-20

========
John


Jesus believed the stupid and vicious story from Numbers 21. (God sent snakes to bite the people for complaining about the lack of food and water. Then God told Moses to make a brass snake to cure them from the bites.) 3:14

"God so loved the world, that he gave his His only begotten Son."
As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16

People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36

The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36

Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66


These are Jesus' words about punishing the damned.

[LeftishBrit]

36. It's not appropriate to any system of ethics.

And a governor who 'never second-guesses the guilt of any of the people executed on his watch' may well turn out to be a psychopath. Like another Republican governor of Texas.Please, please, for the sake of the entire world, please don't elect ANOTHER Bush type!

[laconicsax]

38. Billions of Christians glorify a public execution as a central article of faith. n/t

[deacon_sephiroth]

39. The Bible Might be America, but it's not Christian

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

.............damn stupid-ass smilies, I hate those things so much.