As a Christian...and as a ROCKER...I don't believe it's possible to be a "Christian Rocker."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

I made that statement after seeing the HuffPo headline "Rachel Maddow Sued By Christian Rocker Bradlee Dean" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/27/rachel-maddow-sued-by-chr_n_911407.html)

I've had some tough times lately, but I am pretty "comfortable in my skin."

I'm a Christian, like I said. And DUers who know me know that I've never tried to push that on anyone here, and I never try to "defend" it, because it's my life, my beliefs, and I respect and encourage everyone here to walk that same road. Do what works for you and don't let anyone's opinion sway you from your own unique, individual path.

By the same token, I am a rocker. I got bitten by that bug when I was a ten year old kid. I had my first guitar and was in a "band" before I could play. And when I could play, life...for me...was spanking the fuck out of my Les Paul, sending shards of broken glass that melted into "sapphire bullets of pure love" (hat-tip to John McLaughlin & Mahavishnu Orchestra) into whatever audience I was lucky enough to have.

People talk about "Christian" music or "Spiritual" music.

One of the most SPIRITUAL pieces of music I've ever heard was John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme," and other than the section where "A Love Supreme, Supreme Supreme" is chanted, THERE ARE NO WORDS.

What I'm trying to say is that a crappy rock / pop / soul song IS NOT MADE BETTER by injecting "Jesus" into every other line.

I love old hymns and spirituals...they were well-written and performed with passion and conviction.

But...no disrespect intended toward my Christian brothers & sisters on DU...I have to say that 99.9% of the "Christian Rock" I hear is pure CRAP.

I am a Christian.

I am a Rocker.

I can break windows and set off car alarms with my version of Neil Young's "Down By The River," and I can go to church on Sunday morning.

I can be both and those lines never have to cross.

I don't "rock" in church and I don't "preach" when I strap on my Les Paul.

This DINK is suing Maddow for $50 million. I assume that if he wins, the first 10% goes in the collection plate on Sunday.

And for the record, someone needs to tell this douchebag that he doesn't need to be Axl Rose, because one is more than enough.



That is all.

:rant:

[Kali]

1. what is he suing her for?

pardon me for not clicking - HP takes too freaking long to load...

[Amerigo Vespucci]

15. Here's the gist of it (same link as above)

A Christian rocker is suing Rachel Maddow for $50 million, charging the MSNBC host with defamation for what he says were misleading statements she made about his views on gay rights and Sharia law.

Bradlee Dean, a Minnesota metal rocker, announced the lawsuit in a Tuesday press release. His suit stems from an August 2010 segment of Maddow's, in which she quoted a statement he made on his radio show:

"Muslims are calling for the execution of homosexuals in America. They themselves are upholding the laws that are even in the Bible, the Judeo-Christian God, but they seem to be more moral than the American Christians do. Because these people are livid about enforcing their laws. They know homosexuality is an abomination. If America won't enforce the laws, God will raise up a foreign enemy to do just that."

Dean charged Maddow with deliberately ignoring a disclaimer that he issued which stressed that he was not calling for gay people to be killed. He said Maddow's airing of his statement caused "serious" harm to him and the ministry he runs.

[unapatriciated]

16. She quoted this statement on her show made by Dean.

A Christian rocker is suing Rachel Maddow for $50 million, charging the MSNBC host with defamation for what he says were misleading statements she made about his views on gay rights and Sharia law. (H/T Towleroad)

Bradlee Dean, a Minnesota metal rocker, announced the lawsuit in a Tuesday press release. His suit stems from an August 2010 segment of Maddow's, in which she quoted a statement he made on his radio show:

"Muslims are calling for the execution of homosexuals in America. They themselves are upholding the laws that are even in the Bible, the Judeo-Christian God, but they seem to be more moral than the American Christians do. Because these people are livid about enforcing their laws. They know homosexuality is an abomination. If America won't enforce the laws, God will raise up a foreign enemy to do just that."
Dean charged Maddow with deliberately ignoring a disclaimer that he issued which stressed that he was not calling for gay people to be killed.


she did use his disclaimer on her show so looks like he doesn't have much of a case.

[Adsos Letter]

23. "If America won't enforce the laws, God will raise up a foreign enemy to do just that."

How is that not, in effect, "calling for gay people to be killed?"

It sounds like this guy wants the US to enact OT law, ala the Dominionists/Christian Reconstructionists.

[unapatriciated]

24. sounds that way to me.

[Kali]

22. strange - there are two replies to my question, but neither shows in My DU

wonder if this will?

edit to say yes it does - my post shows one reply - THIS one

[Redbear]

2. Preach on, brother

It may be 99.99999%.

[ixion]

3. well said

:toast:

I'm not a Christian, but I am a musician, and I can respect your position.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. He looks like an Axl Rose wannabe

[TygrBright]

5. Most "Christian" rock song ever composed/performed: "On the Turning Away" - Pink Floyd

And Dave Gilmour is no fundie whackjob. I'm not ever sure he's a Theist of any stripe.

Nevertheless, he composed THE Christian rock anthem.

In my opinion, that is.

"On the turning away
from the pale and downtrodden
and the words they say
wich we won't understand
" don't accept that what's happening
is just a case of others' suffering
or you'll find that you're joining in
the turning away"

It's a sin that somehow
light is changing to shadow
and casting it's shroud
over all we have known
unaware how the ranks have grown
driven on by a heart of stone
we could find that we're all alone
in the dream of the proud

On the wings of the night
as the daytime is stirring
where the speechless unite
in a silent accord
using words you will find are strange
and mesmerised as they light the flame
feel the new wind of change
on the wings of the night

No more turning away
from the weak and the weary
no more turning away
from the coldness inside
just a world that we all must share
it's not enough just to stand and stare
is it only a dream that there'll be
no more turning away?"

thoughtfully,
Bright

[KT2000]

6. that is what I thought

until I saw P.O.D., especially BOOM. Their drummer just kills.

[titaniumsalute]

7. Recently I was at a worksite

I was supervising one of my work sites. My crew was working away outside but I heard this screaming and extreme heavy metal coming from a small boom box. I called the lead over to discuss their choice in music on a worksite (it was rather obnoxious and I didn't want the client to get pissed off at a public place). He said "it's OK, it's Christian Rock."

I said "I don't give a shit what it is it sounds awful and turn it down."

I don't care what peopel listen to in their private lives but this stuff sounded loud, obnoxious and even offensive to the ear.

[MineralMan]

8. But it is certainly possible to be a Christian Mod.

That's clear.

[guitar man]

9. Billy Connolly's hilarious take on it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUSwLWh5Huk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

:D

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. ROFL!!

I love Billy Connolly. "I AM THE DEVIL AND I WANNA FUCK YOUR MOTHERRRRR!" That's rock.

[guitar man]

17. "thee beige sisters of premenstrual agony "

:rofl:

I think he's aboot the funniest person alive :spray:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. His videos make me laugh so hard I can barely breathe.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. "Christian" rock ... doesn't.

[Bake]

12. Testify, my brother!

CAn I get an A-MEN???

:hi:

Bake

[Warpy]

13. I agree, Christian "rock" is a prolonged advertising jingle

with guitars and drums in the background. I haven't heard any that wasn't third rate as far as music goes and abysmally bad as far as lyrics go. Offhand, I'd say the two genres are just a bad mix from the get-go, kind of like do-wop death metal thrash.

Thank you for having the wisdom not to try to mix them.

Wee Bradlee doesn't have a, well, prayer in the courtroom since Maddow did read his disclaimer in that segment.

[City of Mills]

14. There were some good Christian Metal bands back in the day

I'd still put Vengeance Rising up against any of the popular metal bands of the time, and I listened to them all.

[JackintheGreen]

19. I can't believe I'm saying this: I disagree completely

I am not a christian, but I am a metalhead. And 99.9% of all pop/rock music is crap and injecting any one thematic element to it is not going to make it better.

Can there be satanic rock? I would argue that there can be, in so far as there are people who espouse satanic ideas through music. Why can't there be christian rock? That doesn't make it good, but still it's there.

And there are plenty of TERRIBLE "christian" rock acts. Bradlee Dean is, if you'll forgive the expression, god awful. So was Stryper, but there have been a handful of halfway decent bands that use christianity for their inspiration. Deliverance and Tourniquet come to mind. I also seem to remember a band other than Stryper that used to be on Headbanger's Ball called Guardian, I think. They represented for me all that wrong with metal in the late 1980s, but less for their thematic material than for their insipid persona, but they were undeniably Christian.

Really it comes down to this. If you reject the idea of Christian rock then you must also reject the idea of satanic, and I think bands/people like Mayhem, Emperor, Satyricon, Venom, Bathory (prior to Quorthon's viking epiphany), etc. would disagree.

I DO agree that 99.9% of Christian rock is utter crap, but I would again reiterate that 99.9% of all rock is crap.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

27. If you've ever seen the South Park episode where Cartman forms a "Christian Rock" band...

...that's the kind of "Christian Rock" I'm talking about.

It just seems cold, calculated, detached...this sort of "gut-spilling" confessional about how wonderful God is, spoken and/or sung over a grade-Z crappy pop song.

And once again, I need to qualify my remarks...I grew up hearing hymns by Jim Reeves, Johnny Cash, and others...and I LIKED them, because they felt SINCERE, while "Contemporary Christian" music sounds like Eric Cartman trying to rake in big bucks with fake sincerity.

[ButterflyBlood]

28. That I totally agree with you on. But Christian hardcore bands are quite different

Like what I mentioned below. There's more to their lyrics too than "God is awesome, I love Jesus!" over and over too.

I Built The Cross for example (even though they are more deathcore/death metal) are a pretty impassioned band. If you read their lyrics, it's quite obvious they aren't fundies or anything (if the fact that some of them previously played in a secular death metal band called Disfiguring the Goddess wasn't already a hint.), plus in interviews they are more likely to talk about playing violent first person shooters online than any evangelism stuff. They're just dedicated guys who don't want to get caught up in a negative message like so many secular bands of the ilk. Some lyrical topics in some of their songs are things like "Relax and don't worry about your failures or shortcomings or not being a good enough Christian, God loves you anyway", or in another one "If you're one of the anti-religion people in this scene and you hate us for this we still love and accept you but understand we won't quit doing this."

I found this song especially inspiring and moreso than any classic hymn:

Impaled high above the cross the sins of the world pour out from your hands and feet. Mocked and defiled, embedded in your head are thorns. This is love. Lord, I am eternally grateful. My heart is all I have to give. Now religion has destroyed. This was never how things were meant to be. We are no longer bound by the law. In his blood we find freedom. We are saved by grace. So give me peace through these times of struggle, and hope through these times of despair. Give me the heart of a servant, so I may worship with all of my life. Your religion is dead, but Jesus, you give life. This is my purpose: to live for your glory. Lord, I give you praise. You died for me, I will live for you. I would give my life for this.

[ButterflyBlood]

20. Disagree, mewithoutYou is awesome

One of my favorite bands of all time. They're so great that they've actually influenced many non-Christian bands, La Dispute for example is not Christian yet clearly has them as their biggest influence and they're one of the biggest bands in the post-hardcore scene today. My staunchly atheist friend loves them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4GYLuHJ-sk

A->B Life is considered one of the best hardcore records of the 00s pretty universally, Christian or not.

For Today is very good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXFgUKIFtr0
A Thousand Times Repent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6_Kpgp5muU
I Built The Cross: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxkRXEijCxo

All of this is quite different from Dean mind you or any of the crap you're likely to hear on Christian radio.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. I'm a musician but not a christian.

I agree with you. Good music that is "spiritual" can come from any genre.

I hate the Martin Luther/Wesley brothers hymns full of war and blood. Depressing dirges.
I HATE Amazing Grace, because I am NOT a wretch and I don't think anyone else is either -- but that's a different rant.

Good music is sacred. The Sacred/secular distinction is totally artificial. If it is touching your emotions, uplifting you, then it's good.

My training is classical, but I also grew up with 60s/70s rock.

Most of the good sacred music in the past was written for patrons such as popes and emperors and in Latin -- stuff like the Mozart Requiem, etc.

I've been a music director at a Unitarian fellowship, and i could pick any music to play or sing that I thought was appropriate.

One Fourth of July I played "Of Thee I sing, Baby" by George Gershwin, which is patriotic.

When I sang in a U-U church choir, for Valentine's Day we sang the Brahms Liebeslieder Waltzes in English.
That was great fun.

[Bake]

25. I always thought rock was more than just power chords; it's an ATTITUDE.

An in-your-face attitude that is antithetical to authority, subservience, and all the things that institutional Christianity espouses.

So on philosophical grounds (plus the grounds of just good musical taste), I agree with you 1000000%.

"I fought the law and the law won."

Bake

[Amerigo Vespucci]

26. That's how I got into Neil Young and Lou Reed...

...ESPECIALLY Lou Reed. Funny you should quote Bobby Fuller...one of my all-time favorite Reed moments is in "Dirt"...

Do you remember that song by a dude named Bobby Fuller
It went like this:
I fought the law and the law won
I fought the law and the law won

If Reed or Young attempted a career based upon their musical SKILLS, they'd both be working the fry basket at Mickey D's.

It's ALL attitude. And for those two guys, it's always been enough.

:toast: