Liberal U.S. Catholics say the Church isn’t listening

[cleanhippie]

DETROIT (Reuters) - Members of a liberal group of U.S. Roman Catholics on Sunday called on Church leaders to open talks with their members on controversies ranging from the ordination of women to allowing priests to marry.

Members of the American Catholic Council, meeting in Detroit, said they had grown concerned the church's hierarchy was not listening to its members on issues such as the role of women, married clergy and the treatment of homosexuals.

--snip--

The group's "Catholic Bill of Rights and Responsibilities" reads like a list of grievances against the conservative leadership of Pope Benedict, who has frustrated liberals by ruling out the possibility of women priests or a married clergy and putting pressure on dissenting theologians.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/12/liberal-u-s-catholics-say-the-church-isnt-listening/

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Do I smell a schism?

[TlalocW]

1. If the Catholic Church took its own advice

That they dole out when it comes to homosexuality - that is isn't normal (even though it is), and realize it's also not normal for people to remain celibate, they would have less sex scandals.

TlalocW

[damntexdem]

2. Seldom has. Only briefly after Vatican II did it listen at all.

Not that it acted on what it heard. And after the legal costs of pedophilia cases hit it hard, it listened a little -- but again didn't act as fully as it should have.

Too many in the hierarchy have their personal devotions to their patron saints: Santo Testosterone and Santa Bureaucracia. ;-)

[Thats my opinion]

3. No, you smell a fresh wind

[trotsky]

4. It would only be a schism if the liberal members want to leave.

So far I have seen absolutely no sign that they are willing to go to that level. They'll gripe and moan, but continue to hand over their money and time to the institution. So where's the motivation for the church to change?

[Goblinmonger]

5. One word: LEAVE

It's never going to happen, but that's what should happen. The hierarchy of the church is NOT going to change. The mechanism for picking the pope guarantees that. The pope appoints the cardinals and the cardinals pick the new pope. The church WILL NOT become more liberal. Leave and find someplace that meets your needs and goals better. I would recommend the Episcopal church. You won't hardly even realize the difference in the mass other than *gasp* you might have a woman as a minister, or a married person, or a gay (an out gay).

[cap]

6. Other churches don't have the ethnic traditions

Tied to Catholicism. Besides why should WE be the ones leaving? Why not make the conservatives leave? It's my church,not theirs.

[laconicsax]

7. How is it not the Pope's church?

:shrug:

[Goblinmonger]

9. Look at the hierarchy. It's their church.

They make the infallible rules.

[cap]

13. You are missing a quiet uprising

there aren't going to be enough priests soon. The laity will be running things here in the US. In upstate New York, women are holding prayer services because there aren't enough priests. In order to keep the church going, the grass roots is going to be a lot more involved. The hierarchy is getting irrelevant. People are looking at how the early Church functioned before the Papacy. The gay issue is just one of many issues separating progressives from the conservatives. The more the hierarchy pushes the gay issue and other conservative issues the more they risk alienating a lot of quiet Catholics.

There are a lot of saints that made their mark by bucking the hierarchy. :)

[LAGC]

10. Well, at least quit sending money to the Vatican, please?

Thank you.

[cap]

12. I'm a buck in the basket

not overly generous. I do targeted giving to progressive Catholic groups.

[ZombieHorde]

11. If it's your Church, change the rules. Oh wait, you can't change the rules because it's not your

church.

[cap]

14. There is dejure and defacto

rules on the books are conveniently ignored when they don't apply to real life.

For example, 30% of Catholics are living together before marriage. 90% of sexually active Catholics use contraception .

Many heavily Democratic states are also very Catholic and very liberal, like Rhode Island. Someone is supporting abortion rights and gay rights and it's us. Unlike the conservatives, we just don't have the megaphone. Also, many of our leaders have been silenced. But, I am confident that they will rise. People are fed up with Benedict. The good thing about Benedict is that he will be the George W Bush of the Catholic Church and lead the conservatives off the cliff.

The people who at the heart of the change are at Genesis Farm and the National Catholic Reporter. If you want a good hoot, read the forums at the National Catholic Reporter when the conservatives go after the liberals for not really being good Catholics and read the liberal response.

The Church is changing. A lot is happening in small faith groups. I bet you haven't heard of eco-spirituality, contemplative prayer, Catholic Yoga, Catholic TaiChi, Liturgical Dance, Catholic Reiki. Fallen out of your chair, yet? I did when I saw these things.

A lot is happening in the silent retreats. They are not so silent.

Times are a changin'. It ain't your grandfather's Catholicism if you don't want it to be.

[Angry Dragon]

8. It seems organized religion is not a democracy

If one is content to have a man in a dress with red shoes wearing a crown telling you that you are not worthy of god unless you believe what he tells you then you get what you deserve.

I prefer to find my own god. And I do not need anyone to tell me what works for me.

[cap]

15. the man with the red shoes is often ignored

Glad you have found a spirituality that you are comfortable with.

[okasha]

16. Years and years ago, back when I watched TV,

Fr.Andrew Greeley was on some talk show, and the question of birth control came up. Fr. Greeley pointed out that a majority of sexually active Catholics were using either the pill or some other method to prevent pregnancy, and the host exclaimed "But the Pope says that's a sin!" And Greeley replied, "That's the Pope's problem."

Benedict is setting himself up as a latter-day Counterreformation Pope. It's not going to work this time.

[cap]

17. nobody is buying the gloom and doom Catholicism

although the hierarchy is trying to give it a good go.

Look at the frothy mix known as Santorum trying to justify his wife's abortion.

[cap]

18. If you want to listen to something a little more germane to our needs, there is a new labor priest

this speech by Clete Kiley is making the rounds of the progressive blogosphere.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/clete-kiley-new-labor-priest

Earlier in this century, labor priests really helped get labor off the ground in this country.