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Versailles Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 11:37 AM
Original message
A(n) (uncomfortable) position I found myself in...
I don't normally post in this particular sub-forum and hopefully my post is not in the wrong area. Please bear with me as I relate the situation and the background to the situation...I tend to get long winded at times (one of the trappings of an English Lit degree!).

I am not a religious person by nature. I was raised by parents from two very different religious backgrounds (my dad was raised very loosely "Yankee" Methodist where as my mother was raised fire-and-brimstone Southern Baptist.) In order to avoid the familial conflict of having one grandparent angry, my parents chose a very live-and-let-live approach to religion. We only attended church for a short while when I was a young teen, and only because my sister began to ask to go. I was brought along not by force but more by curiosity and a healthy dose of skepticism. We attended a non-denominational church whose reverend was a wonderful speaker and intellectual. Because of him, I joined the youth group (well, in the practice of full disclosure, I liked him, but a large part of my motivation to join was the girl I had a crush on at the time, but I ended up continuing because of the reverend). His sermons and youth group lessons were always, at least to my recollection, rather secular in their bend. Where he would relate his lessons to biblical verse, his focus was on teaching his members to be better, kinder, more tolerant citizens. Case in point, as a lesson in understanding and helping the poor, he broke the members of the youth group into pairs, gave us 20 dollars each and brought us to the grocery store to purchase a weeks worth of nutritional meals. each "family" pair had a specific dietary need or issue that would have to be addressed in our purchases. I believe mine was diabetes. He forced us in a very real way to understand the plight of those less fortunate. The food that was purchased at the store was then donated to the local food pantry.

Because of my upbringing, I feel I have an appreciation, tolerance, and understanding of a wide variety of beliefs. While I generally consider myself an atheist, I teeter on the edge of agnosticism. For clarity, intellectually I cannot accept God in the traditional sense, but at times I feel a sense of "connection" to the natural world that I can't always explain in exact or scientific terms. This has led me to be, at the very least in my own mind, tolerant of others views. I don't like to challenge others on their beliefs or make waves. However, if directly confronted I will engage in debate to a degree. This almost exclusively happens when someone tries to force their belief system on to me.

Fast forward 20 years to now. After 8 years as a teacher, I left the profession just before the economy went kablooey - very bad timing. I was unemployed for about a year in the middle of the bible belt unable, for a variety of reasons, to move to another area. I eventually got a job at an Air Force base library. This is a government job, but because of my boss despite working 30+ hours a week, I'm still "part time" with none of the benefits and a crappy pay. Despite that, I love working in a library. It would be the perfect job if the pay was commiserate with my work load. I am doing the job of cataloging/IT/circulation all for less than 10 dollars an hour. To give you an idea, cataloging alone is a specialized job and at most libraries warrants a minimum 30k SALARY. I keep receiving promises or advancement and benefit/pay increases, but they often are not expedient. I continue to look for more lucrative work, but because of the nature of this state, work is very scarce and unemployment in the county I live in is around 15%. Yesterday's staff meeting however put a bee in my bonnet, so to speak.

Our director, a GS position employee, started the staff meeting by saying that she wanted to open the meeting with a prayer. While normally I would just sit quietly and not actively participate, adhering to my own beliefs. Our director said, and I quote, "I would like to open the meeting today with a payer. I hope no one has a problem with that. Well, even if you do, too bad." Immediately my hackles were raised. This is one of those situations where I would normally challenge the issue, even if passive-aggressively by excusing myself to the bathroom. But this is my boss and this is the ONLY job I've been able to secure in more than 3 years since leaving teaching and to challenge her would put me in a position of potentially being targeted. Now perhaps because I'd already been provoked, but when she proceeded to thank God for making the library run smoothly and for all the hard work He's done for the library, I became angrier. Not once was the credit for all this hard work given to those who actually do it - us.

The dilemma I find myself in, is do I stay silent and endure becoming more and more frustrated as she aggressively brings her version of God into a (government) workplace in order to preserve my job and only means of livelihood or do I make an issue of the event? Keep in mind that it is well known that I am the only one in the library that does not attend church and therefore would be VERY easy to suspect that I was the one to raise a complaint despite any protections of being anonymous. She has done smaller things before that have followed this same route (ie creating a "spiritual" section of the library, but rejecting anything being in that section that is not Christian in nature despite the suggestions of TWO other staff members that we serve a very diverse population of GOVERNMENT employees and only having one ideal in that section might be construed as prejudicial). I am very torn here for my own sense of moral justice and my need for preservation of myself and my family.

I appreciate any comments and while I honestly don't know that there is a "solution" out there for this, I would think the discussion would prove intellectually stimulating. Thanks for reading my wall-o-text!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. i would talk to my nearest ACLU. nt
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AldebTX Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. What Many Seem To Forget
While laws protect someone being fired due to religious persuasion, it also protects those who chose not to participate as well.
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Versailles Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. True..
But I've also seen it happen where suddenly there are other reasons to get rid of the troublesome employee. One mistake that would normally be corrected and life moves on can become compounded suddenly into a firing offense. And in this particular economy, if I were fired (with or without good cause) finding a job would be near impossible...even without that stigma, it is very difficult to even get your foot in the door with the unemployment so high in this area.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Which is why you need to get a complaint on record immediately.
If you are on an Air Force base, there is a Commanding Officers complaint system (legally, there is supposed to be one) that is anonymous. Drop a note in that pipeline, contact the ACLU and the FFRF and get the issue on record. Then if you get fired for some "other" reason....
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. There's been a lot of fundamentalist recruiting going on in the Air Force...
...so it's not guaranteed that the chain of command will be sympathetic, unfortunately.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I know, but it needs to be documented.
Without documentation its just he said/she said.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. I would "pray" for another job with better pay to come quickly...n/t
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ack! You are in a bad situation.
I have been in similar situations, in groups
where MEMBERS have asked for (or just started,
unasked for, prayers) in meetings.

Once, it was suggested that if a particular
prayer "worked", we would have one on a weekly
basis, and I offered to bring chalk and candles
for my "service" the next week and everyone
laughed and it was NEVER brought up again.

I told my manager that the prayer made me
uncomfortable and that it had no place in
the workplace and that was that.
It sounds like you have no one to complain to,
if your DIRECTOR is pulling this crap. I would
continue to look for work as a teacher if I were
you.

In the meantime,
I would be less than respectful of the "prayer"
if it continued. I WOULD get up and go the bathroom,
cough, look around, read, etc. while it happened,
but that would probably be the extent of my "protest"
unless there was someone to report her to.
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Versailles Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks for the thoughts...
First, I love your avatar/icon! Dean is one of my personal heroes...having grown up in Vermont under him I only wish that he could have been the man to take it to Bush way back when!

To the situation at hand - Because it is my director, and all the other staff generally share a similar faith, I feel like my passive-aggressive methods of protest might bring about the same retribution as if I directly confronted it. As it was, my sitting silently and not saying "amen" repeatedly throughout her prayer garnered a few glances. Our library staff is only 10 people total and with the amount of hats I wear at the library, I am a very visible person...not to mention one of only two male employees adds to my visibility.

I will continue to look for work elsewhere, though not in the education world. (My "crusades" against cookie cutter education and standardized tests took such a toll that it caused physical and mental health issues and made very little overall impact.) I guess yesterday's direct in-your-face nature of her religious views hit a nerve and I felt I need to vent/explore/validate/etc my stance and/or concerns. I think overall, I don't see someone to make an issue of it to, even if I were to decide to do so. It is well known that, generally speaking, the military personnel overall have a high rate religious affiliation and I feel I'd be sticking my neck way way way out.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Too bad you can't get back to Vermont!
I don't know which state you're in (I'm assuming you're in the south),
but I don't think you'd be in this situation in the north...

If you haven't read about Mikey Weinstein's organization,
here is the website for "Military Religious Freedom"

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

Maybe you can pick up some ideas from there.

Sincere wishes of Good Luck to you!

:hi:
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. You're in a difficult spot.
If you object, your temporary, part-time status means that you'll probably get booted from the job. You might win a labor action, but you'd still be unemployed for months at least. I'm not sure what I'd do in your position. It would be a real dilemma for me, as an atheist.

Perhaps contacting the ACLU would be your best approach, but you'd still be at some considerable risk of not having an income. No doubt, they'd send a letter to that director, but if you believe you'd be known as the one who complained, you might just suffer from it, even if you eventually won.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. You'll be the one who has to decide, so I wish you luck, however you act.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Contact the Freedom From Religion Foundation, immediately.
www.ffrf.org

and the ACLU.

Do it, do it right now, do not delay.

And the next time your boss does thin, you need to confront her and explain the law. Perhaps the best thing she could do is fire you, then you won't have to worry about money, as your lawsuit should pay handsomely.
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Pholus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Document everything and figure out how to start a complaint. Quietly.
Edited on Sat May-28-11 12:34 PM by Pholus
You're obviously on a knife edge here and it's eating at you because you're in fear for your job. That means that you're already internally accepting that you're probably heading towards that event. Prepare your case now.

Start documenting everything. Do it quietly. It will help you keep your sanity as well, as abuses are not feared but instead become data points and every data point takes you closer to resolving the situation in your favor.

Some possible evidence: A picture of the spiritual section of the library with titles visible or even an inventory list showing that it's being biased towards a particular belief. Create an email sent mentioning a well respected new book from a censored belief and asking if it should be included. Record the rejection email. In fact, if you can swing it without getting fired try to document the "prayer" part of the agenda in email or on some kind of record. An email to a coworker even innocently making an observation about something tangential "during the prayer". Do it several times spread out over time and use different coworkers. Try to be VERY subtle. If it is not challenged by the coworkers in email regardless of how they testify later that they didn't correct you about the existence of some kind of pre meeting prayer means it existed. If possible, volunteer to take "minutes" of your meetings for several weeks and include "Prayer" as part of the agenda. If you are ordered to remove it, ask a clarification question in email. Heck, take your own personal notes and start a journal as well.

Start paying attention about who in the MILITARY chain of command is responsible for your boss. Research grievance procedures which should be available through your base's civilian HR program.

Somewhere on base is a military officer whose job it is to make sure that your unfortunate situation does not occur. Harassment and intolerance is corrosive to the military mission, even if your boss don't believe it. That officer, provided that they are doing their job (and you may want to try to learn about that person as well), will discuss your situation with you in confidence. Wait for that discussion until you have 5-6 solid bits of evidence.

Good luck, stay sane.
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. If you are seen as a "bad fit"
or whatever other smarmy euphemism they're using these days to screw people you can bet they'll build documentation against you. The beauty is that there is nothing stopping you from doing the same. Just make it a habit to keep a journal including names, dates, and whatever other pertinant information about how you are treated. It's also surprisingly easy to record meetings etc. to use as evidence in court.

The longer it takes you to get out, the more evidence you build toward a possible payday. There are of course no guarantees and a win of any sort is a long shot. But at least you'll be doing something about it, and being proactive about it will be good for your mental health.

Of course if you're trained as a writer the public might like to know about it some day. There may be expose/novel potential there. Life is what happens while you're making art.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. That is a really long issue.
Edited on Sat May-28-11 01:09 PM by RandomThoughts
Going to skip posting on that, becuase it is hundreds of hours of conversation on that topic.

If I start to post, there is just so much to that topic.

on the topic of censorship of other faiths in books in the library.

Is a faith, also about people only seeing that faith, or about helping realize why that faith is better for people or a person even if they see some other belief.

Once you get into censorship, you have to decide who the censors are going to be.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'll give you some tactical advice, which you may or may not find useful
Edited on Sat May-28-11 01:38 PM by struggle4progress
For purposes of full disclosure, I'd say that I attend church very regularly, but I am committed to separation of church and state, and I rather dislike public shows of piety

Don't venture into a big fuggin argument. You're there to do your job. Anything other than doing your job is of no interest to you. You're so committed to doing your job you have trouble hearing anything that's not job-related, because you can't even imagine that anyone would contemplate using job hours for non-job stuff

If people are praying, it somehow escapes your attention: you're busily (but quietly) reviewing the meeting agenda or reviewing the points for your report;. If boss complains that you're not bowing your head and praying, you look blankly back, indicating you didn't understand the question. If boss insists, you politely say "This isn't my faith tradition." If boss persists, you politely indicate that your own faith is a personal and private matter. You don't go ANYWHERE beyond that in discussions with boss: in particular, don't get into a philosophical or legal squabble; don't make accusations or counter-accusations

However, you keep detailed notes about such events for your own later reference

If the situation repeats and escalates (when the boss wants to pray, you review work papers, and the boss comments adversely), you go to the HR department -- and ONLY ask questions: "What role does my faith tradition play in my job performance evaluation here? Can I have a copy of the applicable policy?" If you need to make a declarative sentence, it is: "I'm only trying to make sure I understand the policy"

Your objective is to be able to say truthfully later, if necessary, things like "The prayer wasn't part of my faith tradition, so I just quietly reviewed the meeting agenda while the boss led a prayer" and "I asked the HR department to help me understand what role my faith tradition could play in my job performance evaluation, and I asked for a copy of the policy"

Take it from there. Go slow and don't be loud or argumentative. If boss wants conversations about this, your objective is to immediately turn the conversations into conversations about current work issues

For example,

Boss: I noticed you didn't pray with us in the meeting
You: That's not my faith tradition. We're running low on book covers. Can I reorder?

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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. This is the best advice so far.
The military is big on chain of command. One of the quickest ways to lose your job--and it sounds as if you need this one till you find another--is to go first to the ACLU. Now, I'm a card-carrying member of the ACLU, but anything that involves publicity should be among your last steps, not your first. Get the policies clarified. Document. If you need to file a complaint, begin with a quiet talk with your boss' supervisor. Ask him/her for assurances of confidentiality, because her "too bad if you have a problem" sounds not only as if there's no point in addressing the issue with her, but it might expose you to retaliation.

Another legal possibility is your local Legal Aid. If you're only working 30 hrs. and making less thatn $10/hour, you probably qualify for their services.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. "Don't corner the animal if you don't have to." Lots of people sometimes act like
insensitive shizzheads, and lots of them will reconsider if they find a graceful way to back out
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. First, I would call the Labor Department.
Second, I would call AF JAG.

Third, I would contact EEOC. http://www.eeoc.gov/field/index.cfm

Fourth, I would call the state CLU.

Good luck.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. +1. Great advice.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Believe it or not,I think these guys are the scummiest of the scum.
First he yanks around with this guy's job to deprive him of his wages and benefits.

Then, he abuses his position with this hypocritcal "prayer service".

And he tops it off by saying, if you don't like it, tough shit.

Fuck him.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-28-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. On all that, we are in total agreement.
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