The Relation Between Religion and Government in China

[rug]

China is again in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Highlighted by the detention of artist Ai Weiwei and Nobel-laureate Liu Xiaobo, the past few months have seen what Assistant Secretary of State Michael Posner recently called a "serious backsliding" of human rights.

Even with China's growing clout on the world stage, human rights abuses do have consequences. Reports of secret detentions, censorship of the Internet, and intimidation of foreign journalists continue to harm the image of China's "peaceful rise," and stoke fears of what a rising China means for the world.

Nothing damages China's image more than its suppression of religion. The Dalai Lama wields greater international influence than any of China's domestic critics, due in no small part to his image as a spiritual figure. China's persecution of "house churches," underground communities of Christians that gather in small home meetings, remains a significant irritant to relations with the United States. Sometimes the policies themselves backfire spectacularly. In 1999, China moved aggressively to suppress a relatively obscure new age movement called Falungong. But rather than destroying the group, this campaign ended up launching Falungong to global prominence.

Why does China pursue a policy towards religion that costs it so dearly in terms of international image? Some observers assume that the governing regime is simply ideologically fragile to the point of paranoia, and too accustomed to taking a sledgehammer to any and all public security problems. There is certainly some truth to such an idea, particularly as far as its political critics are concerned. But China's leaders certainly know that throwing the weight of the state security apparatus against Tibetan monks or elderly Christians makes for fairly awful public relations, and it is worth our time to think about why they would consider such actions worth the bad press they inevitably bring.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thomas-david-dubois/china-religion_b_864469.html

[trotsky]

1. "Nothing damages China's image more than its suppression of religion."

I dunno, I'd hazard a guess that it's the imprisonment and execution of political opponents that damages China's image the most, but what do I know.

Oh yeah, the author then goes on to admit...

While Communist Party members are themselves supposed to be atheist, ordinary citizens are allowed to practice religion within certain strict parameters. The Chinese government recognizes Buddhism, Daoism, Christianity and Islam (it does not consider Confucianism a religion), but these official religions are essentially branches of the government, rather than independent organizations.

So they don't really suppress religion? But he said they did? When actually what this shows is what we already knew: Communist governments attack religion because they are a threat to the state's power, not because they are a threat to atheism.

[rug]

4. "these official religions are essentially branches of the government, rather than independent"

That's suprression. Any organization that does not receive governmental approval is outlawed.

It's really not necessary to defend decaying state capitalism just because its ruling class is officially atheist.

[trotsky]

5. Suppressing would be forbidding people to have a religion at all.

Gov't control only further reinforces what I said.

[rug]

6. No. If any organization is co-opted, it is suppressed.

Check trade union history.

[trotsky]

9. Not the same.

But feel free to prove that China's state-sanctioned religions are the same as trade unions. Should be interesting to see you try.

[rug]

10. The topic is government suppression.

It would be more interesting to see you try to defend China's policy.

[trotsky]

11. Not interested in defending China's policy, nice try.

sup·press 
–verb (used with object)
1. to put an end to the activities of (a person, body of persons, etc.): to suppress the Communist party.
2. to do away with by or as by authority; abolish; stop (a practice, custom, etc.).
3. to keep in or repress (a feeling, smile, groan, etc.).

Let's see. Definition one - is the Chinese gov't putting an end to religious activities? Nope.

Definition two: are they abolishing or stopping religious practice? Nope again.

Definition three: not really applicable to this situation.

Three strikes, you're out. Does China *control* the expression of religion? Absolutely. Do I agree with the policy? No. But are they suppressing it? No. Religion is allowed within certain parameters. As I said in my first response, this only further demonstrates that Communist governments view religion (particularly religious *institutions*) as a threat to the state's power, not as a threat to atheism.

[humblebum]

12. Don't look now trotsky but you are bunk on all counts.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/297333,china-sends-five-house-church-leaders-to-labour-camp.html

"China has sentenced five organizers of an illegal house church to two years at a labour camp, after accusing them of "gathering people to disturb the public order," a US-based Christian support group said on Wednesday. Public security officials in the northern city of Linfen, Shanxi province, sent the four women and one man to a "re-education through labour" camp after they led Christians who were protesting the demolition of church buildings by local authorities, the China Aid Association said in a statement."


http://www.tibet.ca/en/newsroom/wtn/6147

"Dr. Shizhong Chen, co-chair of the forum,
answered the question raised by Dr. Graves and
pointed out that no regime in history has
persecuted so many religious groups such as Falun
Gong, Christians, Tibetan Buddhists, and Uyghur
Muslims. The reason is that the CCP is atheist
and is against God. All human civilizations and
every nation’s culture come from a belief in God.
The CCP persecutes all groups because of its
atheism, which is bringing disaster to the whole world."

[LuvNewcastle]

2. Good perspective

Americans characterize government religious policy in China as suppression of people of faith by an atheistic Communist Party. The primary issue, however, is not the suppression of certain sects and the most-favored religion status of others. All governments make such choices, even the U.S. government. The issue is the zealous brutality with which they persecute these people.

[humblebum]

3. China is actively forcing atheism on Tibet.

UN Committee on the Rights of the Child
Pre-session on China, June 2005


"In discriminatory content, much of the curriculum today aims to indoctrinate children that
Tibet belongs to China, and to reduce Buddhism’s influence by aggressively pushing atheism
and making it illegal to teach religion to minors under 16."

http://72.32.136.41/files/documents/TJCStatementAtUNCRCPreSessionJune2005.pdf

One of several such reports

[dimbear]

7. The bloodiest war of the 19th century

was fought in China partly to decide whether the official state examinations could be based on the Bible as an alternative to the Analects. Many millions of deaths. (Taiping Rebellion for the history fans.)

These things can leave a bad taste.

[ZombieHorde]

8. I don't like the way China's government handles religion. nt