Report of this atheists adventure in church!

[cleanhippie]

For the record, as it was pointed out in my other thread about this not being a "church", it is called the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship. Here is my experience.....

My wife and I arrived, nervous and exited about what we would find. Being summer, there were only about 25-30 folks that showed, however, as permanent name tags for regular members were on display by the front door, I surmised that there were at least 150 folks that must belong to this congregation.
The main room had a dais and a pulpit, but on this day, all of the chairs were arranged in a large circle on the floor. (In the summer, the services are informal in this style, but in the fall, they go back to a more traditional style) The pastor, a nice woman with a pleasant smile greeted us and introduced us to a few others then we mingled a few minutes and sat down as the call to start the service sounded, a bell or a chime, I'm not sure.
The chalice was lit (the UU symbol) and the pastor read aloud (she was in the circle with the rest of us) the basic tenets and purpose of the UUF then called for a few moments of silence for meditation/reflection. There were some announcements, discussions about upcoming events, some chit chat, then she read aloud a poem called "The Gift" that was also written for us to read in the service pamphlet we were given. She then proposed a few questions to provoke thought and discussion and the microphone was passed around for anyone to comment and speak. This lasted 15 or 20 minutes, we sang a hymn (that came from a hymn book that had songs from christian, jewish, humanists(yes, humanist), and other religions, IOW, very diverse). There was another moment of silence then that was it. The next 1/2 hour was spent with coffee and discussion with the other folks in a cocktail party style of mingling and moving around.

Here is what sold me: Not once was I asked to pray, there were no "amen's", no hallelujahs, no calls on jesus, no "praise god", no anything that would lead me to believe I was in a church. But that was not what sold me, this is......As we were being shown the childcare area (we have a 1 year old that we did not bring), two little girls were putting up a poster they had made while the adults were in the service. It was a picture with a large yellow ball in the middle and it had this caption:

THIS LITTLE LIGHT OF MINE......POWERED BY THE SUN!

I am going back!

[Angry Dragon]

1. I am glad you had a good time

and found something that felt right to you

[cleanhippie]

8. Thanks

Not sure if its "right" just yet, but gonna keep checking it out to find out.

[dmallind]

2. I ask this with all sincerity

What was it that you got from this service? Lots of things listed as missing, and thankfully so from an atheist POV, but if I may say so you skimmed over the benefits IMO. The hymn? The poem? Chatting and mingling? I guess I'm asking what is here that is not there at a non-religious (even non-UU verision of religious) event.

You seem keen to go back, which is of course p[erfectly fine and your call, but I am left wondering why..

[cleanhippie]

4. This is what I was looking for...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=255717&mesg_id=255717


and it seemed, so far, to live up to my expectations. I am willing to go again a few more times and see if I can meet some of the folks that go there and perhaps have some stimulating discussions and make some new, like-minded friends. Thats it.

[qb]

3. That's cool. I attended a UU fellowship for a while years ago.

The minister was an atheist, and his sermons included lots of thought-provoking philosophy. When he retired, the new minister decided they needed to compete with all of the liberal Christian churches in Minneapolis and added a strong "God" element to their services. What a turn-off. My protests were ignored, so I left.

[cleanhippie]

6. I would say that most of the folks that were there this time were not "believers"

in the traditional sense of that word. Like I said, there was no paryer, no god, no jesus, etc.... but there was thought provocation and discussion, which is exactly what I wanted. If in the fall, when it shifts to a more traditional style (the pastor at the pulpit giving a sermon) and it starts to become more "god-like" then I will also stop going. I got the impression that it will not change much, only the format. The pastor is 1/2 time, so she will only lead 2 of the 4 services per month. I guess a "celebrant", one of the congregation members leads the other days, so as to have more diversity. I will see.....

[Ian David]

5. Now you need to get your non-Atheist friends to go with you. n/t

[cleanhippie]

7. Don;t know that I have many of those...

At least none that are very "religious". None of my friends go to church, but I will ask if they want to check this place out.

[4_TN_TITANS]

9. Interesting...

This might be what my 15 yr. old daughter would like. Since we haven't raised her in a particular religion, she's searching around for something that might fit her.

[cleanhippie]

10. I found out about the unitarians reading the book "Parenting Beyond Belief"

Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/

The author is an atheist but attends a Unitarian church. Thought we would give it a try after confirming that much of its congregation consists of atheists, agnostics and "others". No dogma, no rules, 100% inclusive.

[ironbark]

11. Perhaps religion itself and our needs/expectations of it are ‘Evolving’ ;-) ?

Perhaps they have been progressively doing so for tens of thousands of years.


Glad to hear it went well for you.....you said your wife went?...What did she think?

[cleanhippie]

12. Perhaps, yes!

Not sure how evolution, in all of its form and manifestations, can be argued as false........been proven over and over.....

It did go very well. Very happy with my experience. Going to go again a few times to see if it lives up to my expectations, but so far, so good. Wife enjoyed it as well. She enjoys the music, goes to church with the neighbors occasionally (3 times in the last 6 years) just for the music (or so she tells me!) But she is supportive of going back.

[ironbark]

24. I know you checked them out first…but for the benefit of others-

Some basic background on Unitarian Universalism.

(All of these principals are shared by the Baha’is and it was the Baha’is who introduced me to the UUs)

From Wiki-
We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote
• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.<18>

Unitarian Universalism is a religion characterized by support for a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning." Unitarian Universalists do not share a creed; rather, they are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth and by the belief that an individual's theology is a result of that search and not obedience to an authoritative requirement. Unitarian Universalists draw on many different theological sources and have a wide range of beliefs and practices.
Unitarian Universalism is a theologically diverse religion in which members support one another in our individual search for truth and meaning. We have historic roots in the Jewish and Christian traditions, but today individual Unitarian Universalists may identify with Atheism, Agnosticism, Buddhism, Humanism, Paganism, or with other philosophical or religious traditions. Interfaith families often find that Unitarian Universalist congregations are a good fit for them. <1>

There is no single unifying belief that all Unitarian Universalists (UUs) hold, aside from complete and responsible freedom of speech, thought, belief, faith, and disposition. They believe that each person is free to search for his or her own personal truth on issues, such as the existence, nature, and meaning of life, deities, creation, and afterlife. UUs can come from any religious background, and hold beliefs from a variety of cultures or religions.
Concepts about deity are diverse among UUs. Some believe that there is no god (atheism); others believe in many gods (polytheism). Some believe that the question of the existence of any god is most likely unascertainable or unknowable (agnosticism). Some believe that God is a metaphor for a transcendent reality. Some believe in a female god (goddess), a passive god (Deism), an Abrahamic god, or a god manifested in nature or the universe (pantheism). Many UUs reject the idea of deities and instead speak of the "spirit of life" that binds all life on earth. UUs support each person's search for truth and meaning in concepts of spirituality.


In the often-quoted words of Thomas Starr King, pastor of the San Francisco Unitarian Church at the beginning of the Civil War: "The Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, and the Unitarians believe they are too good to be damned!"<15>

[kwassa]

13. It isn't really church.

UU is really a secular humanist group that for unknown reasons still follows the format of a traditional Protestant service, with the content missing. Why does it still call itself a church?

UU also depends on refugees from more dogmatic faiths to supply the newcomers to the church. Because there is no single cohesive point of view in UU, it often doesn't hold on to the next generation of potential worshipers. There is no there there. It is all about getting away from something else.

[Goblinmonger]

14. Wow, way to piss on what someone found interesting

Why do that? Seems like what you rail against anytime an atheist says anything about something remotely religious. This provided this person with a sense of community.

And he said it isn't a church but a fellowship.

Sometimes I just don't understand people at all.

[rrneck]

15. ..."with the content missing"

Bullshit. The fellowship IS the content. Get over yourself.

[cleanhippie]

18. +1000

[kwassa]

20. The fellowship is not content, actually, Read a definition of "church".

because the Unitarians have defined themselves as a church forever. Your distinction is not their distinction. I can dump a bucket-load of links if you want.

I was brought up in the Unitarian church, by the way. A cradle Unitarian, so to speak.

A church is about a belief in God, a word not uttered in most Unitarian congregations.

Main Entry: 1church
Pronunciation: \ˈchərch\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, ultimately from Late Greek kyriakon, from Greek, neuter of kyriakos of the lord, from kyrios lord, master; akin to Sanskrit śūra hero, warrior
Date: before 12th century

1 : a building for public and especially Christian worship
2 : the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
3 often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: as a : the whole body of Christians b : denomination <the Presbyterian church> c : congregation
4 : a public divine worship <goes to church every Sunday>
5 : the clerical profession <considered the church as a possible career>

[rrneck]

22. delete

[rrneck]

23. The reason for gathering is the same as any other church.

They have just thrown out all of the other stuff. Maybe it's about time we redefined the term "church" to include everything from houses of worship to baseball stadiums, because reason people gather in them and the way they feel when they get there all seems to be the same.

(I thought my other reply was too curt.)

[cleanhippie]

17. Uh, yeah, I have mentioned that several times, but thanks for pointing it out again.

[Jokerman]

19. "There is no there there"

"often doesn't hold on to the next generation of potential worshipers"

Two phrases that apply just as well to the traditional churches.

[kwassa]

21. Uh, no.

[GliderGuider]

26. It's not a "church" in the sense that they expect you to think for yourself.

Traditional churches hold onto their members by being the source of dogma, in other words they tell members what to think. As a result members need to stay in the church if they wish to remain connected to the source of their philosophical/spiritual thinking.

Unitarians, on the other hand, highly value individual thought, personal choice and spiritual independence. One a Unitarian "gets" that point of view, there's precious little to hold them in the church beyond the sense of community.

Personally I'd rather join an organization whose "content" involves promoting the independence of thought rather than one whose content is designed to keep me thinking approved thoughts. Then if I like the people and the things they talk about I'll stick around. If not, it's a big old world out here, with a lot of interesting people and ideas in it.

[Odin2005]

16. This Atheist goes to a UU church. I love it!

[GliderGuider]

25. I was raised Unitarian

My parents (both strong atheists) helped found the Fellowship in my home town in Canada. I drifted away when I was in my late teens, and haven't really gone back. Unitarianism teaches you to think for yourself, which isn't a great recipe for the group cohesion - people seem to discover that once they can think for themselves they don't need group membership so much.

Since there is no dogma, the spiritual/philosophical flavour of Unitarian fellowships seem to vary a lot depending on the minister, the board, the members themselves and the community. The fellowship I grew up in was strongly atheistic, and almost purely humanist. This was because there was no minister, the board was all university-educated, and the city was the home of a good university so the membership was drawn mostly from the intellectual end of the spectrum.

As time went on the fellowship acquired a series of ministers and the membership changed to include more refugees from mainstream churches. The philosophical tone changed to become more overtly spiritual which gave my parents a bad case of heartburn, so they scaled back their involvement.

If I could find a Unitarian fellowship that emphasized non-dual teachings I might join. Regardless, they are a breath of fresh air on the philosophical landscape.

[rrneck]

27. It sounds a practice of faith

that is responsive to the practitioners of that faith rather than some ideology carved in stone. It's a miracle.

[GliderGuider]

28. Yes, except the only "faith" you need to have

is a faith in your right to follow your own path.
Hallelujah! :dilemma:

[BolivarianHero]

29. I wish my work schedule allowed me to go more often...

The senior pastor of my local congregation is an elderly but vigorous political activist who marched in Selma (and keep in mind that I live in Ontario) and has dedicated his life to helping orphans from underdeveloped and developing nations and to providing sanctuary to refugees.

Last time I went he read stories from the Book of Jonah and an essay by Kurt Vonnegut.

[New Earth]

30. good for you

I went to a Unitarian Universalist church for about 6 months in 2008. I wasn't raised any religion growing up but was always a spiritual mystic kind of person. I liked UU a lot, but found that at least my congregation was not deep enough for me. I don't like all the praise Jesus, etc stuff either but I wanted more spirituality in my experience on Sundays.

Anyway, I did enjoy my time there. They are great people, so open minded, so accepting of anyone and everyone, politically liberal, and very very socially active in their communities and the world. They are great people! I ended up leaving for a Religious Science/New Thought church and have been there for 2 years. There are a lot of similarities except Religious Science churches are more mystic/spiritual and DO mention God a lot (but not your typical fundy Christian or other orthodox religious type of God). But the feeling of acceptance and liberal attitude are there like in UU.

I hope you do go back and keep enjoying it!