Independence Day is not a religious day - LINK UPDATED

[cleanhippie]

Best refutation of the "America is a Christian Nation" claim I have ever seen.


---------------------------
It is beautiful, bright Tuesday morning, the 6th of July, and the extended holiday weekend is over. The barbeque grills are covered, the parties are over, the spent fireworks are neatly swept up and Alabama is back to it's normal, day-to-day life along with the rest of the Nation. This past weekend our Nation celebrated Independence Day. Unfortunately, many of our citizens have little or no understanding of why we fought the American Revolutionary War, enduring those bloody battles to separate ourselves from the Monarchy of United Kingdom. There are many in this country that either ignore, were taught incorrectly or were simply never told why we felt it mandatory to dissolve our connection to the British Crown and it’s history of repeated violations to the basic human rights of those under its rule.


http://www.examiner.com/x-57388-Birmingham-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m7d6-Independence-Day-Is-Not-A-Religious-Holiday

[Warpy]

1. Bad link

Can't get there from here.

[MaxFine]

6. Try this one

http://www.examiner.com/x-57388-Birmingham-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m7d6-Independence-Day-Is-Not-A-Religious-Holiday

[Warpy]

7. Thanks!

I really wanted to read that one. Were it not for the combination of alcohol, guns and explosives making it miserable, I'd love to be able to celebrate the beginning of a country without a state mandated religion.

[Blue Owl]

2. Hey, anything that blasphemes Lee Greenwood

is OK by me!

[jeepnstein]

3. I agree fully.

The American Revolution was a war fought primarily over taxation and commerce. I'm not convinced human rights was really a hot button issue for a group that included slave holders. Religion was put off limits with the Bill of Rights and it's a really good idea. I have no doubt some of the Founding Fathers were deeply religious men but they had the good sense to know church and state don't mix.

July 4 is a great holiday. It's just not what I'd call a particularly religious day.

[damntexdem]

4. How can you say that? What can be more religious than shooting off fireworks?

And talk about faith: think of the faith that it takes some people to shoot off those things in the unsafe ways they do it.

;-)

[cleanhippie]

5. I don't think that's faith....

it's ignorance!

[Warpy]

8. Well, it's religious if you're Chinese

and you're scaring away all the evil spirits lurking around your neighborhood.

[unblock]

9. in fact our nation was founded as a deeply SECULAR nation, by design

departing from european traditions, america was founded on the notion that the government and the wielding of governmental powers should be separated from religion.

christianity has always been the majority religion, but the country itself was founded on the notion that religion should remain with the people, not the government.

[humblebum]

11. Actually It would be more correct to say it was founded as a FREE nation.

There is a difference. If it was intended to be secular in origin then there would be no references to diety or divine, etc. in any documents or structures.

[cleanhippie]

12. "If it was intended to be secular in origin..."

So are you saying that this country IS founded on religion and/or christianity?

[humblebum]

13. No. I'm saying that the US was founded as a free country.

It was designed neither as a religious nor secular country. The word secular is nowhere to be found in the Constitution.

[trotsky]

14. "not religious" = secular

Sorry, bumble. You lose again.

–adjective
1.
of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
2.
not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.

[humblebum]

15. UM? Where does it say that the US is a "non-religious" country?

However, the term free is all over the place in our documents.

[cleanhippie]

17. Again, it has to be one or the other. You cannot just make up your own definitions.

There is no middle ground here, religious or secular.

[humblebum]

19. By whose definition? It is definitely not a 2-sided issue. nt

[cleanhippie]

20. By the dictionaries definition.

And yes, I feel it is a 2-sided issue. If you disagree, please explain to me how we can be something OTHER than a religious or secular nation.

I suppose that if we are talking about what kind of nation we are in a different context, such as we are either a republic or s monarchy, or a free or enslaved nation, but we are not. We talking in terms of religion or secular.

I don't know you, but I get the feeling that you are one who likes to mince words in an effort to distort the topic. If I am wrong, I apologize.

[cleanhippie]

16. Maybe I am wrong, but can't there only be one or the other?

Something is either religious or secular. What else is there?

Or are you just trying to split hairs with vocabulary nonsense?

[trotsky]

23. No, you're absolutely correct.

There's just a person here who has an agenda against secularism, that's all.

[darkstar3]

22. Name for me please one reference to deity or the divine in the Constitution.

The Constitution is not "part of our founding documents" as so many people like to say, but it is our founding document. Note the singular form. There is no other document written during that time which sets down laws, rights, or other matters of governance. The Declaration of Independence, while important to our history and a clear demarcation of the birth of our nation, has fuck-all to do with how this nation was founded or how it was intended to be run. The letters written by the various founding fathers fall under that description as well.

Read here: http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#god

And then come back, assuming you have anything more to say, and tell the rest of the board WHY the US is not a secular (which does in fact mean non-religious) nation.

[Angry Dragon]

10. I feel you are wrong

I am sure it says in the Bible that God said he chose the United States of America as his one and only country. Not sure which Bible but it was in one of them, maybe the one they are re-writing now, I will have to check. But in the mean time just take my word for it, okay.

[cleanhippie]

18. Huh?

[Angry Dragon]

21. I was trying to inject some humor

Into the "this country was founded under god"
I guess I should not quit my day job