The Christian Fascists Are Growing Stronger, by Chris Hedges

[Echo In Light]

The Christian Fascists Are Growing Stronger
By Chris Hedges

Tens of millions of Americans, lumped into a diffuse and fractious movement known as the Christian right, have begun to dismantle the intellectual and scientific rigor of the Enlightenment. They are creating a theocratic state based on “biblical law,” and shutting out all those they define as the enemy. This movement, veering closer and closer to traditional fascism, seeks to force a recalcitrant world to submit before an imperial America. It champions the eradication of social deviants, beginning with homosexuals, and moving on to immigrants, secular humanists, feminists, Jews, Muslims and those they dismiss as “nominal Christians”—meaning Christians who do not embrace their perverted and heretical interpretation of the Bible. Those who defy the mass movement are condemned as posing a threat to the health and hygiene of the country and the family. All will be purged.

The followers of deviant faiths, from Judaism to Islam, must be converted or repressed. The deviant media, the deviant public schools, the deviant entertainment industry, the deviant secular humanist government and judiciary and the deviant churches will be reformed or closed. There will be a relentless promotion of Christian “values,” already under way on Christian radio and television and in Christian schools, as information and facts are replaced with overt forms of indoctrination. The march toward this terrifying dystopia has begun. It is taking place on the streets of Arizona, on cable news channels, at tea party rallies, in the Texas public schools, among militia members and within a Republican Party that is being hijacked by this lunatic fringe.

Elizabeth Dilling, who wrote “The Red Network” and was a Nazi sympathizer, is touted as required reading by trash-talk television hosts like Glenn Beck. Thomas Jefferson, who favored separation of church and state, is ignored in Christian schools and soon will be ignored in Texas public school textbooks. The Christian right hails the “significant contributions” of the Confederacy. Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who led the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950s, has been rehabilitated, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is defined as part of the worldwide battle against Islamic terror. Legislation like the new Jim Crow laws of Arizona is being considered by 17 other states.

The rise of this Christian fascism, a rise we ignore at our peril, is being fueled by an ineffectual and bankrupt liberal class that has proved to be unable to roll back surging unemployment, protect us from speculators on Wall Street, or save our dispossessed working class from foreclosures, bankruptcies and misery. The liberal class has proved useless in combating the largest environmental disaster in our history, ending costly and futile imperial wars or stopping the corporate plundering of the nation. And the gutlessness of the liberal class has left it, and the values it represents, reviled and hated.

The Democrats have refused to repeal the gross violations of international and domestic law codified by the Bush administration. This means that Christian fascists who achieve power will have the “legal” tools to spy on, arrest, deny habeas corpus to, and torture or assassinate American citizens—as does the Obama administration.

Those who remain in a reality-based world often dismiss these malcontents as buffoons and simpletons. They do not take seriously those, like Beck, who pander to the primitive yearnings for vengeance, new glory and moral renewal. Critics of the movement continue to employ the tools of reason, research and fact to challenge the absurdities propagated by creationists who think they will float naked into the heavens when Jesus returns to Earth. The magical thinking, the flagrant distortion in interpreting the Bible, the contradictions that abound within the movement’s belief system and the laughable pseudoscience, however, are impervious to reason. We cannot convince those in the movement to wake up. It is we who are asleep.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. All too true. :^(

[Echo In Light]

4. America, Fascism, And God: Sermons from a Heretical Preacher

http://books.google.com/books?id=1SMnNK7dH0YC&printsec=frontcover&dq=America,+Fascism,+And+God:+Sermons+from+a+Heretical+Preacher&source=bl&ots=hbBDArQWg3&sig=vtDRRRyuWrQTb973hxe5L0Tq6Vs&hl=en&ei=MRkNTNegJoyhnQfD26GgDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Bookmarked that for reading later, thanks!

[Interloper]

2. Leftist ridicule does not help

The practice of leftists to ridicule and mischaracterize christians does not help. Portraying them as morons, magical thinking, irrational, believing in laughable pseudoscience...only creates more conflict, and shows really don't know what they believe or what you are up against.

[BadgerKid]

6. Nice generalization you got there. n/t

[arbusto_baboso]

7. Except, all those things ARE true of Christians.

Dispute me if you dare.

[humblebum]

35. I think you just proved his point. nt

[The Doctor.]

56. If his point is that it is wrong to point out ignorance, selfishness, and hypocrisy,

Then it is the point that is wrong.

Mature human adults do not get angry with those who point out their failings. They either a) Take the criticism constructively, or b) explain rationally why the criticism is unfounded.

When you criticize irrational and/or immature people, they get angry.


The Cristo-Fascists are very irrational, and extremely immature... they have proven it time and again. If the choices are; 'Placate them and allow them to behave like fascists so they don't get mad' -or- 'Stand up and point out what horrible cretins hiding-behind-religion they are', then it is our social and moral responsibility to choose the latter.

[humblebum]

60. I think you just proved it once more. nt

[The Doctor.]

61. Wow. Not much for that whole 'reading comprehension' thing, are ya?

[laconicsax]

67. I'm surprised he hasn't brought up Stalin yet. n/t

[Dogtown]

101. Childish taunt.

Do you have anything of substance to add?

[AlinPA]

9. RE: their "believing in laughable pseudoscience", specifically the 6000 year old

earth: I'll continue to speak up for evidence of an earth that is billions of years old and and the fact that we live in a heliocentric universe. I don't want them teaching my children and grandchildren ignorance in their science classes. IMO, their ignorance on science amounts to child abuse. The "Creation Museum" is laughable. If my stance creates conflict, so be it.

[gratuitous]

11. +1

Indeed. A lot of what passes for critical thinking doesn't even pass its own standard when it comes to dealing with the fascisti who are fond of wrapping themselves in a familiar garb so as to deceive people and disguise their aims. But it suits a certain stripe of folks who are given wide latitude here at DU to violate DU's own stated policies with impunity and without explanation or even the simple courtesy of acknowledgement by the administrators and their moderators.

[Arugula Latte]

12. Why is it we're always the ones who are supposed to shut up

and the extremist Christians can say whatever stupid shit they want to because it's their "Faith"?

[Echo In Light]

13. The 'One Should Never Discuss Politics Or Religion In Public' meme favors The Few over The Many

That's why that particularly nasty ideal was/is promoted under the guise of decorum; Powers That Be in any field or organization don't want the 'wrong' ideas gaining a foothold within the public mind

[bobburgster]

50. Amen....oops, good post

I totally agree with you. Same premise seems to be the case with the Republicans too.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. At least we don't believe people with different beliefs will burn in Hell. -nt

[Goblinmonger]

23. Yes, by all means

let's leave them to their devices unfettered. Go ahead and pull evolution from the curriculum in favor of creationism even though creationism is absolute bullshit and not science at all. Go ahead and create more laws that are based on their morality. Hell, why stop at no gay marriage, let's go back to no inter-racial marriage.

Sorry, I'm not going to shut up about how damn stupid they are. Have you ever said anything kind of negative about republicans? Probably shouldn't by your logic. Or is this kid-gloves treatment just for religion (that's rhetorical, by the way)?

[snagglepuss]

26. Is your name Rumpelstiltskin? Are you unaware of the Dominionists?

Are you completely unaware of the stated goals of the hard Xhristian right? Chris Hedges is a brilliant writer, I strongly suggest you read "I Don't Believe in Atheists" and "American Fascists". You really need to have your eyes opened. BTW Hedges is the son of a Presbyterian minister and grew up as a devout Christian, after finishing his BA he obtained a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School.



American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America was published in 2007. In this book, Hedges argues that the Christian fundamentalist movement emerging today in the United States resembles the early fascist movements in Italy and Germany at the beginning of the last century, and therefore constitutes a gathering threat to American democracy.



I Don't Believe in Atheists
I Don't Believe in Atheists,published in 2008,is a critique of what Hedges perceives as a radical mindset that rages against religion and faith. Hedges states the book was motivated by debates he had with atheist authors Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens whom Hedges feels excessively demonize religion, particularly Islam, in ways that Hedges believed were eerily similar to the thinking of Christian fundamentalists. The 2009 paperback edition was retitled When Atheism Becomes Religion: America's New Fundamentalists.

[glitch]

43. Hedges is anti-authoritarian, he can spot them however they're cloaked. Good spotting Hitchens.nt

[polichick]

100. Thanks for those summaries! Hitchens has always given me the creeps...

Now I know why.

[rudy23]

31. Welcome to DU. We have a lot of "leftists" here--maybe not the best place to use that as a slur

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

[humblebum]

37. Not all leftists ridicule others for their beliefs. Many and maybe

most stress tolerance. And certainly not all atheists are leftists. If you support acts of ridicule and bigotry then chances are you will see some amount of backlash.

[Wednesdays]

45. Yup. Can't go around bashing fascists, now, can we...

Hey everyone--wasn't there a thread on here just recently, about how both sides of an issue have to be treated with equal deference these days? Oh yes, here it is:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x540459

"A lie is not another side of the story. It's just a lie."

[humblebum]

47. Well, given the record of organized atheism over the past century or so,

I would have to say that is the most immediate danger.

[darkstar3]

49. You still haven't made that case,

not in all the chances that have been given to you. Atheism is not the same thing as Communism, and it never has been.

[The Doctor.]

54. Speaking of unfounded and irrational beliefs...

'Atheism leads to fascism'?

Is this an exercise in deliberate ignorance?

[humblebum]

55. Where did i say atheism leads to fascism? But the number and

scope of deaths attributed to atheists, atheist groups, and atheist dictators is undeniable (although many do try).

[The Doctor.]

57. For a moment, I was going to give you the BOTD... then I read the body of your post.

You may not realize this, but you've fairly well exposed yourself as ignorant.

The only question is whether it is deliberate or not.


Here's how we prove that people like yourself are basically clueless; You claim, "the number and scope of deaths attributed to atheists, atheist groups, and atheist dictators is undeniable".

Ready?


Name them.


Even just a few. Go ahead.

[humblebum]

58. Well, Let's see

“Godless Communists”: Atheism and Society in the Soviet Union by Husband
Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless by Peris
The Black Book of Communism by Courtois, et al
Death by Government by R J Rummel
Guinness Book of World Records

To name a few sources.

[darkstar3]

59. All of which detail the deaths of people killed by Communists.

How long will it take you to learn that Communism =/= atheism?

[The Doctor.]

62. Fail... on just the first hurdle.

I could cite articles that support a flat Earth theory... that wouldn't be proving it.

You said;

"the number and scope of deaths attributed to atheists, atheist groups, and atheist dictators is undeniable"

I said; "NAME them"

"The Communists" Is a pretty sorry start. You mean Stalin?

Sure, that's one atheist who was also a monster.


Tell you what, since Stalin and Communism "Proves" that atheists are monsters, What does Hitler 'prove' about Christians?

[humblebum]

63. Proof positive as far as I'm concerned. Those sources tell the story

of many atheist groups and dictators and atheists. There's the usual Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Kruschev, Mao, Pol Pot, Hoxha, Ceaucescu, etc. Then you have the League of Militant Atheists, Society of the Godless, The Godless, The Knowledge Society, etc. and publications like "the Atheist", and "the Atheist Handbook". I think your suckin' air, Doc.

[The Doctor.]

64. Oh my, why that's a terrible litany of names.

I guess that proves it... they murdered and committed genocide because they were atheists.

Right?

[humblebum]

65. You seem to want to put words in my mouth, I merely said

that these events were "attributed to atheists, atheist groups, and atheist dictators", which they were. How you want to interpret that is up to you.

[The Doctor.]

68. Not at all. I asked you a question. It was a fairly simple one;

Did those you mentioned commit such atrocities because they were atheists?

I'm sure you might convince yourself that it's somehow my fault, or even the question's fault that you can't answer the question. So please just leave.

On the other hand; you could provide a good deal of entertainment by trying to dodge the question, or you could prove you belong in the realm of the thoughtful and actually answer it.

So, what will it be?

Dodge?

Answer?

Or piss off?


Wanna guess where my money is? (hint; I have a 2/3 advantage) ;)

[humblebum]

69. Well, i think I did answer your first question and that wasn't it, so

if trying to use this as a straw man argument, then you have changed the topic. So if you want a straight answer to "Did they do it because they were atheists?" , I would have to say many times yes. All Marxist Communists were atheists, but not all of the atheists were communists. There were millions of believers rounded up and executed immediately, or starved to death, or died in the gulags for their religious activities or refusals to accept the mandate of scientific atheism. They certainly were not killed because they were not communists. That was not a requirement. But they were killed or imprisoned because they were not (officially) atheists. So, did the perpetrators do these thing because they were atheists? Well, many were not communists, but they were atheists. So if we have atheists killing non- atheists, it's quite clear that atheism was the reason many did what they did. The League of Militant Atheists was charged with forcefully spreading atheism, not communism.

[darkstar3]

70. That is one of the most intellectually bankrupt and dishonest arguments you have offered to date. nt

[Angry Dragon]

72. I am glad you are able to take a group of people

and decide what is in their souls. I would think it had more to do to break any power the government felt that the churches had verses any belief in a god or not.

[humblebum]

73. One does not just lightly dismiss and try to justify these events when

several times over the number that died in the Holocaust happened. There is no justification.

[darkstar3]

75. No one is attempting justification. Nice red herring.

We have mountains of evidence and logic to show that Communism and its lust for power were the motives behind the murders you are referencing. Unless and until you can prove conclusively that the murders you reference were motivated specifically by atheism, you're pissing in the wind.

You and this guy don't know each other, do you?

[The Doctor.]

76. You do not appear to know what a 'strawman' argument is.

First, I asked you to 'name them'.

You did a half-assed job at first, but got around to specifics. Then I asked you this question;

"I guess that proves it... they murdered and committed genocide because they were atheists.

Right?"

Now, I thought for sure you'd be aware that you had been invited to put your hypocrisy on display and try to avoid the question, but you really did surprise me;

""Did they do it because they were atheists?" , I would have to say many times yes."

Wow.

Now we get to the fun part; proving that you are;

a) A flaming hypocrite.

b) Clueless.

First, the part about you being a raging hypocrite;

Hitler was a proven self-described Christian. Since he was a Christian and had millions of people killed, can you agree that it was because he was Christian? After all... he made sure to murder those of different faith.

Second, the part about you being clueless;

If Stalin were such a 'devout' :eyes: atheist, then why did he go about opening Christian churches throughout Russia?

[humblebum]

77. First of all, Hitler was an amalgum of several things. He was baptised a

Catholic, he was a devoted student of Nietzsche's works, and he was keenly aware of Germany's ancient past regarding the emperor's status as defender of the RC Church and right to share power with the Pope and to appoint bishops - going back to Charlesmagne and the Carolingians (the First Reich).

About Stalin, if you knew anything about soviet history you would know that he attempted to build a secular church, a church minus any religious trappings, but with secular traditions such a "Red" weddings, Komsomol Christmases and Easters, etc. You say that he opened churchs throughout Russia. By the end of the Cultural Revolution in 1932 - 50% of all city churches were gone and 80% of rural and village churches. During WW2, he again allowed religious activity that had been supressed before in order to build a sense of national unity. After the war, it was back to business as usual. The only churches that Stalin allowed ever were those in which his own operatives were placed. Stalin certainly wasn't the only person to act this way. Kruschev's purges in the 50's wiped out a huge number of religious structures.

[trotsky]

78. No Christian church can be a force for atheism.

But Christian churches can DEFINITELY be a force for Communism. The very first Christians were quite communistic in their philosophy. You have just shown that Stalin was motivated to fight the enemies of COMMUNISM, not atheism.

Thanks, bumble!

[darkstar3]

79. Don't you just love it when idiots hang themselves out to dry for the world to see? n/t

[The Doctor.]

81. What bumble cannot grasp, that I was hoping to lead him to,

is that these people murdered out of fear not a 'belief system'.

Stalin may very well have feared religion... although a study of actual history proves that unlikely. He murdered to protect Communism exactly as you state.

These days, atheist have a great deal more to fear from 'Christians' than the reverse. Christians want to shape the world to their system, that means that they may indeed kill because of their beliefs.

Atheists have no interest in forcing their lack of belief on anyone. I'm sure they would prefer that all people became educated and reasoned, however.

[humblebum]

85. Actually the purpose of wiping out religion was to establish a

state atheism, which was in fact called 'Scientific Atheism'. When you are using organizations such as the League of Militant Atheists and circulating publications such as 'the Atheist' into factories, schools, and homes, and you are broadcasting atheist propaganda over the radio, and have outlawed all religious literature or public displays of religion - I would say that your motive is probably ATHEISM. Communism was the vehicle used to accomplish these things. Without Communism Atheists would have had to compete for recognition. As it was they had a monopoly. Their philosophical orientations were identical to many prominent atheist personalities today. BTW, you seem to be fixated on Stalin. The story covers a much broader time frame and many more characters.

[darkstar3]

89. So when various US politicians push and use Christianity in the exact same way,

their motive is Christianity? Don't look now, but I think the entire Christian left wishes you would STFU.

You have already been schooled in this subject many times before. The Communists had a vested interest in making sure that loyalty to God or to the Russian Orthodox Church didn't stand in the way of the Party's plans. As usual, you have no case. Unless of course you can PROVE the motive of the Communists was something other than Party power.

[The Doctor.]

92. You have been asked questions and have deliberately avoided them.

They were;

"Hitler was a proven self-described Christian. Since he was a Christian and had millions of people killed, can you agree that it was because he was Christian? After all... he made sure to murder those of different faith.

If Stalin were such a 'devout' :eyes: atheist, then why did he go about opening Christian churches throughout Russia?"


You blithered something about Hitler being Catholic. I'm sorry there bud, but you still didn't answer the questions.

[humblebum]

93. I think I have answered about every question you have asked, but

it really isn't my fault that you show such an absolute ignorance of history. As far as Hitler goes, you also should know that he did not kill solely Jews. But his numbers were just a fraction of the estimated 130 million killed under atheistic dictators.

[The Doctor.]

94. No, you didn't.

Here they are;

Hitler was a proven self-described Christian. Since he was a Christian and had millions of people killed, can you agree that it was because he was Christian?


If Stalin were such a 'devout' :eyes: atheist, then why did he go about opening Christian churches throughout Russia?


Now post the excerpts you think answered those.

[humblebum]

95. I'll stand on what I've already written. whatever you want to do with it

from here on out is up to you.





Hitler and Lenin in Vienna 1909.

[darkstar3]

96. And fall off that house of cards onto your foolish grin. n/t

[The Doctor.]

97. So you can't even point to your own answers. That's no surprise,

considering the deliberate ignorance and obfuscation purveyors like yourself engage in.

Your tactics only work on those devoid of reason. Here on this site, reason, facts, and reality are law.

You simply want to believe what you believe. You will ignore the fact that atheists in America only ask that they are not forced to adhere to religion, while also ignoring the fact that the 'Christian Right' is definitely trying to impose their values on everyone else.

Live in your fantasy world, but don't try to impose it upon the reality of everyone else.

[humblebum]

98. Get a grip on reality Doc and quit being a victim. There are

many ways of reasoning besides your narrow view.

[struggle4progress]

83. The classical Marxists would have laughed out loud at your view:

they regarded social structures as being closely related to economic systems, and the "primitive communism" of the early Christian church occurred in the context of a pre-industrial agrarian economy, in which surpluses accumulated mostly by the exploitation of slave labor. The Communism, which the classical Marxists envisioned, on the other hand, would occur in the context of industrial society, in which machinery played a major role in surplus accumulation. Russia, being essentially unindustrialized at the time of the Revolution, was beyond the scope of classical Marxist theory, and Marx himself did not expect a Communist state eould occur there without industrialization, unless the agrarian base collectivized, which he regarded as unlikely

The primitive communism of the early Christian church did not last, and it has usually been conveniently forgotten

Under the Tzarist regime, the Russian Orthodox Church was an officially established institution; as the Communist program required disestablishment and complete separation of church and state, the church predictably opposed the Communists

[trotsky]

86. I'm sure they would have.

However the Soviets were not classical Marxists.

Your unrelated ramblings are, as usual, just noise.

[The Doctor.]

80. The word is; "amalgam". I know... your browser does not check the subject line.

So... Hitler was 'Catholic'.

He was therefore not 'Christian'?

Right?

[struggle4progress]

82. I am not aware of evidence Hitler actually knew much about Nietzsche. It is

true that Hitler made a show of admiring Nietzsche, but this may simply be associated with Nietzsche's hostility to Judeo-Christian ethics, which the Nazis used as part of their volkish propaganda. In addition, it is well-known that Nietzsche's sister actively pushed the view that Hitler was the superman that her brother had once predicted

[humblebum]

84. On the contrary in 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'

Shirer writes about Hitler's going often to the Nietzsche Museum and his "veneration" for the man.

[struggle4progress]

87. That, of course, is not necessarily the same as reading the philosopher.

The sister, Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche, a rapid anti-semite, controlled her brother's archives and so, for a number of years in the early twentieth century, was able to control public interpretation of her brother's work. As an ardent Nazi herself, she sought to use the Nietzsche Archive to promote Nazi ideas, simultaneously hoping to obtain funding for the archive

I don't doubt some Nazis read Nietzsche and found his views useful in some ways. I'm merely questioning whether Nietzsche really had much effect on Hitler

[humblebum]

88. Yes, but there is also much evidence that Hitler studied Nietzsche

while he was in Vienna shortly after the turn of the century.

[darkstar3]

90. Where? n/t

[humblebum]

91. It would be wrong to suggest that Nietzsche was the only philosopher studied by

Hitler in his early years in Vienna. He also studied Hegel, Treitschke, and others and each one seems to have had an effect on the formation of his own ideology.

[trotsky]

48. "If you support acts of ridicule and bigotry then chances are you will see some amount of backlash."

Is that a threat?

Are you making excuses for religious violence?

[ChadwickHenryWard]

32. Chris Hedges is VERY religious.

So your argument fails. He's not ridiculing religion in general: he's just ridiculing religion held by people other than himself.

[darkstar3]

36. A DU staple.

In fact, I'd like to posit the Law of R/T Hypocrisy:

The propensity of a religious poster to ridicule a religion they do not hold is directly proportional to the propensity of said poster to object to ridicule of their own religion.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

71. It's really hard to take Hedges seriously

when he refers to people he disagrees with as "heretics." He heaps scorn on fundamentalists not because he disagrees with their policies, but because they disagree with his interpretation of his book. It's one thing if you can explain logically why you disagree with the religious right politically, why their polices are harmful e.g. abstinence only, but trashing them because they hold to a different faith is just immature.

[snagglepuss]

46. self delete

[MadMaddie]

39. And yet it is okay for the Christian right to ridicule the left

for actually wanting to take care of one's neighbor? They mock and bully anyone that doesn't believe in their fanatical outlook on life. But the left is demonized for calling them out.

Seriously, maybe the Christian right should quit being the victim.

[tomp]

40. ridicule of leftists doesn't help either.

not that you're doing that, but in general, for the fascists to prevail the left must be squashed. it's really that simple.

this is what happened in germany and pretty much everywhere else.

so if you're not a leftist, you should at least defend leftism from the libelous and slanderous portrayals it endures.

every blow against the left is a blow for fascism, christian or otherwise.

(which is why i have such problems with obama.)

[RagAss]

66. Leftist?...Been here long?

[Taverner]

3. Scary and true

[dgibby]

8. The radical Christian Right, is, without a doubt, the most dangerous terroris threat to this country

Forget about the Taliban, it's the Talibornagains that scare me.

While we laugh at them, call them buffoons, clowns, etc, they're busy undermining the Constitution and setting up a Theocracy.

Don't believe me?

Take a good, hard look at the Republican Party. About 25-30years ago, they were welcomed in, and now they have all but destroyed it. Tea Party, anyone?

Still don't believe me? Take a good, hard look at the Democratic Party. It's being destroyed by blue dogs, DLC, "new" dems, etc.

Look at the recent immigration law in AZ. Look at the SCOTUS rulings re: corporate person hood. Look at the domestic terrorist attacks that are written off as "lone wolf" acts. Look at "C" street and the enormous influence the "Family" has on our Govt. Look at the infiltration of the US Armed Forces, as well as Fed, state, and local police. Look at the corporately controlled media. Look at "faith based initiative".

Is it fascism yet? If not, it will be if we continue to ignore this threat from within.

[Stevenmarc]

10. If you are following Christ's teaching then you are a Christian, which means....

A lot of people that call themselves Christian really aren't including these fascist douche-bags.

[Goblinmonger]

22. Damnit, I had 11 in the No True Scotsman pool.

You couldn't hold off one more post?

[trotsky]

74. Heck, I had 3.

I figured with a juicy topic like this it was going to come almost immediately.

[soleft]

14. We've already had our Reichstag Fire

It happened on9/11/2001.

[Echo In Light]

16. All by design

[DBoon]

15. These people are busy embedding themselves in the police, military, and national security

They know what they are doing.

[Echo In Light]

17. Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity/Military Evangelism Deeper, Wider Than First Thought

http://www.truthout.org/article/pentagon-sued-over-mandatory-christianity

http://www.truthout.org/article/military-evangelism-deeper-wider-than-first-thought

"For US Army soldiers entering basic training at Fort Jackson Army base in Columbia, South Carolina, accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior appears to be as much a part of the nine-week regimen as the vigorous physical and mental exercises the troops must endure. That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand."

"The Crusade for a Christian Military": Are US Forces Trying to Convert Afghans to Christianity? (Democracy Now! link)

[PufPuf23]

38. They started in local school boards and campus crusade for

Christ back in the 70s.

[LanternWaste]

19. we already got the memo three weeks ago in Sunday school....

Kinda late-- we already got the memo three weeks ago in Sunday school.... :tinfoilhat:

[ShamelessHussy]

20. Yikes

It is damn scary... Especially when you see signs of it everywhere.

I've been listening to the rap song 'say' a lot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZ5xfuxTig

[Echo In Light]

21. And *of course* this was moved simply b/c it deals w/religion

lol

[freddie mertz]

24. Indeed.

As if this was or could be a mainly "religious" topic.

[Echo In Light]

25. It's gotten so obvious here at DU

[Spheric]

28. This is so wrong.

I say that as a person who was raised himself a Christian and whose entire family is Christian.

K&R anyway.

[snagglepuss]

27. I just finished reading Empire of Illusion. Highly recommend it.

Thanks for posting. K & R

[Jim__]

29. Hedges is a good, rousing writer; but he offers no real alternative here.

He tells us that reason and fact are useless in this battle:

Those who remain in a reality-based world often dismiss these malcontents as buffoons and simpletons. They do not take seriously those, like Beck, who pander to the primitive yearnings for vengeance, new glory and moral renewal. Critics of the movement continue to employ the tools of reason, research and fact to challenge the absurdities propagated by creationists who think they will float naked into the heavens when Jesus returns to Earth. The magical thinking, the flagrant distortion in interpreting the Bible, the contradictions that abound within the movement’s belief system and the laughable pseudoscience, however, are impervious to reason. We cannot convince those in the movement to wake up. It is we who are asleep.t

Reincorporate the dispossessed into our economy is a good strategy. But his tactics are non-specific and sound like we should join in the rebellion:

Let us not stand meekly at the open gates of the city waiting passively for the barbarians. They are coming. They are slouching toward Bethlehem. Let us shake off our complacency and cynicism. Let us openly defy the liberal establishment, which will not save us, to demand and fight for economic reparations for our working class. Let us reincorporate these dispossessed into our economy. Let us give them a reality-based hope for the future. Time is running out. If we do not act, American fascists, clutching Christian crosses, waving American flags and orchestrating mass recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance, will use this rage to snuff us out.

That sounds more like a call to battle than a plan for winning back control of the economy. Veiled appeals to violence are not what we need now. We need specific ideas about how to wrest back control of the government and the economy. Unfortunately, Hedges doesn't offer any such ideas. I'm not sure how that the people responding to his calll to battle will not just become additional troops in a know-nothing revolution.

[struggle4progress]

30. Politically, of course, we really ought to track the political right

in detail -- knowing names and addresses, and following the funding trails

Hedges is completely correct to worry about economic factors -- but in case of a serious downturn in the economy, the resurgence of rightwing religious fundamentalists will be a symptom of a larger problem, and it will probably be associated with deliberate and cynical organizing by others, who only want to use the rightwing religious fundamentalists for their own purposes. For this reason, it is important to focus on the entire reactionary architecture and not to become obsessed only with the religious veneer that the reactionaries would hide behind

[Jim__]

33. I'm really opposed to tracking people because of their political beliefs.

But, I agree. If serious revolutionary violence breaks out, the winners in the end will be the people who are prepared to seize control. Most of the people in the streets will lose.

[struggle4progress]

34. I'm really not talking about tracking ordinary people with no political power,

though there was some evidence around the 2004 election that the Republicans had large databases doing something like that

What I mean is: political power is not an abstraction; it involves certain people, with definite interests, and these people have faces and names and addresses; they are not all elected officials; many of them remain out-of-common-sight -- but they are there, and with some work, they can be identified and their structural roles can be understood. That is the real architecture of power, as it is understood (in some sense) by anyone who plays the political game successfully. It is part of the concrete knowledge one needs to develop successful tactics

[pleah]

41. K&R

[lordsummerisle]

42. k&r n/t

[Wilms]

44. .

[lib_wit_it]

51. Being an atheist and a liberal and vehemently opposed to the unmistakable fascism of the RW,

I am perplexed by Hedges' characterization of me and like-minded liberals. I will say that we have neither the leadership nor the unity which I believe we desperately need to fight back the fascist tide.

[earth mom]

52. Did you hear Pelosi the other day spouting her christian beliefs?

I wonder if she's part of "The Family" too? :yoiks:

Thanks for posting this-K & R & Bookmarked.

[The Doctor.]

53. These are VERY dangerous people.

The belief in absolute righteousness of one's ideals allows for the justification of literally anything.

They are unfathomably selfish and certifiably insane.

[polichick]

99. Fascinating - and shows why "reaching out" to people like Rick Warren...

...is so dangerous (as many of us suspected).