Christian leaders use Easter to attack atheism

[HuckleB]

Religious leaders have used their Good Friday sermons to launch an attack on what they call a recent surge in atheism.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/02/2863269.htm

"Thousands of Christians crowded into churches this morning to mark the solemn Christian festival of Good Friday.

Sydney Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen told his congregation atheism is not the rational philosophy that it claims to be. Dr. Jensen told the congregation that atheism is as much of a religion as Christianity.

"It's about our determination as human beings to have our own way, to make our own rules, to live our own lives, unfettered by the rule of God and the right of God to rule over us," he said.

"What we're really seeing, once more an example of the contest between human beings and God over who rules the world."

..."

----------------------------------

WTF? :banghead:

Is this what Easter is supposed to be about to Christians? :shrug:

I don't think this is representative of Christianity, or Christians, in general, and I hope most DUers agree that these sermons are pure BS.

:hi:

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Guess they just can't handle the competition . . . .

[Warpy]

2. I don't know what it will take to get through to the cement headed idiots

like the good Archbishop, but atheism isn't a philosophy, nor is it a religion.

It's only the absence of belief in one more god than the Archbishop believes in.

However, if he wants to join all the less savory Christian elements in the US Republican Party, he's going in the right direction.

Easter is hardly the day to preach hate.

[HuckleB]

5. You're spot on, as usual. -nm-

[humblebum]

143. Atheism may not be a philosophy in itself, but it is

most certainly the product of a philosophy, whether it be a personal philosophy or a socially recognized philosophy. Religion is also the product of philosophy, but based on different criteria, of course. Atheism is very much becoming a "religion without a god" for many and ,in fact, has been just that at certain times throughout history.

[Warpy]

151. You're going to need a chiropractor after twisting yourself up with that one

Atheism is not a philosophy. Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god. Period.

Some atheists might be philosophical while others are not. Only projection would have someone assume all are.

[rurallib]

3. Atheism is not a rational philosophy? So I assume this implies Christianity is

with its virgin birth and water into wine and ...............
Oy Vey!

[malaise]

4. Who cares?

I didn't hear a fugging word from one of them.
I don't know how a rational human being can claim that having no belief in any gods is another religion.
-----------
I'm betting no atheists heard that BS.

[Zenlitened]

6. The Evil Atheist Conspiracy, Inc., says to the archbishop:

Thank you!

Thank you for making our work so easy, by making yourself seem so ridiculous.

:hi:

[DesertFlower]

7. this statement bothers me.

"It's about our determination as human beings to have our own way, to make our own rules, to live our own lives, unfettered by the rule of God and the right of God to rule over us," he said.


they can't rationalize that fact that we can be good people without religion.

[HuckleB]

12. Yes, that one would have me pulling my hair out on a bad day.

Ugh.

:hi:

[Hello_Kitty]

55. Even worse is that it suggests he's a bit of a control freak

"to make our own rules, to live our own lives, unfettered by the rule of God and the right of God to rule over us,"

By "God" he means his church and his dogma.

[trotsky]

147. Bingo!

By "God" he means his church and his dogma.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." -- Susan B. Anthony

[wolfgangmo]

69. I am not religious.

Mostly a freethinker although I don't like labels so I resist self identifying as an athiest. Nontheless ....I have had this insane conversation with a Christian (as I am sure many of you have) who insisted that without Jeebus, it was impossible to be moral or ethical as, to quote the idjit, all morality flows from the Christ. When I stopped laughing I asked him to prove it.

He sputtered for a while and then I asked if he believed in the quote of Jesus's that "you shall know them by their fruits?" and of course he did. Then, I said, "you agree that it is not what someone says but what their actions are?" Again he agreed. "So," I said, "if someone acts moral and ethical, it doesn't matter what terms they use to describe that behavior like Jesus or Christian, no?"

And then of course came the circular logic. I could see it was like pissing into a huricane so I left him with this thought. Mahatma Ghandi.

I must admit that I have been attending an interesting series of evening philosophical salons being put on by local area B'ahai's and they are the most open and accepting of any religious folks I have ever met. Of course this might be because their faith is proscribed from having any clergy or holy folks. Everyone is just required to be familiar with B'ahai writings (as well as all other monotheistic sects) which mostly consist of being nice to folks, non discrimination, equality of the sexes and races, etc. By any sane measurement these are good goals.

I find them to be mostly liberal and progressive. So if you have leanings that way, you might want to check them out. Just my 2 cents.

[ironbark]

141. Yup…The Baha’is are interesting.

Have had a lot to do with them through working with refugees and asylum seekers.
Have read most of their literature and scripture and seen their community in action…can’t find much fault. Like you I find the absence of clergy an advantage.

My interest/attraction was principally through their One World/One People pov…a stance I’ve always held but could find few organizational vehicles working towards it.
Also liked their position on peace…seen not as the roof on an almost complete building but as the foundation upon which much else is laid- ie the peace dividend.

Have come to see many/most ecological and economic problems as irresolvable without a large degree of global governance….and there’s the rub.
There are so many right wing evangelical groups (and neo Nazis) who see One World/ The New World Order etc as conspiracy of the Antichrist.
The Baha’is are firmly in the crosshairs of these nutters.

I’m an agnostic and find the Baha’i pov on Progressive Revelation to be one of the most interesting and challenging notions ever put forward. Would even go so far as to suggest it may provide evidence for the existence of god. See a lot of local atheists screaming for proof of god…haven’t as yet encountered any willing to consider what might constitute evidence.
;-)

[notadmblnd]

123. Especially since most people with religion are not good people

They attend church to show off their cheap Chinese made crap or use the minister to perform family rituals free of charge all the while the minister uses them to get his tithes. And of course, my favorite, they attend church because they think it will ensure their place in Heaven.

[omega minimo]

144. That's a joke, right?

Where did you get such a cartoon version of reality? Sounds like a parody of a cliche.

[notadmblnd]

148. Sure, if it's what you need to hear.

:shrug:

[iris27]

131. I heard this constantly growing up. Atheists were selfish and arrogant jerks who

thought they knew better than God, who thought they knew everything...look how silly and stupid they are, because obviously no one knows everything!

My mother still thinks this. As part of an epic "discussion" after I told her I no longer believed, she said "That's the problem with people like you and Ron (the cardiac surgeon she works for, also an atheist) - you're too smart for your own good."

Oi...

[old mark]

8. Fuck those christians - I haven't been to a church service in over 50 years

but I got a great buy on a ham because of easter, and I must say it is a very tasty one, so thanks christians for the holiday. I love a good party.

mark

[JBoy]

13. And thank you Jesus for inventing chocolate bunnies.

[HuckleB]

18. And Tom Waits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw

[tridim]

31. Just bought 4 6-packs of Reeses Eggs for 50% off.

I call Easter "Cheap candy eve".

[HuckleB]

36. Yep. I love All Saints Day and February 15 for the same reason!

[ixion]

9. So the whacky xians steal the Spring Equinox from the Pagans

and slap their little slice of delusion all over it, but it's the those who don't share in their delusion that are at fault.

Riiiiiight. :eyes:

[HockeyMom]

63. Actually they DID

Christmas was from the Winter Solstice. Where did I learn this? Try catholic school. The reason was in early times the christians wanted to get pagans to join the flock, so Rome incorporated some of the pagan rituals and customs into christianity so pagans would not have so difficult a time adjusting.

Didn't any of you christian/born agains ever hear this? Whether you believe in the church or Rome or not, maybe you should a learn little about the history of christianity. Like it or not, Rome was the FIRST seat of christianity. History is what history is.

I have no horse in this race (topic). I am neither a christian nor an atheist, but an agnostic.

[KonaKane]

10. Why do you associate one lunatic minister with all Christians?

I really don't get the propensity of DU to so voraciously attack people of faith. Here in my town they had a beautiful Easter mass, with no such rhetoric coming from the pulpit.

Come on people, live and let live. It's a big planet.

[HuckleB]

11. I didn't.

And it's not just one minister. Please read the link and the OP before making such accusations.

Thank you.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

15. Say what?

:shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Nice.

May I use the same sentence next time a church sex scandal pops up?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

20. Where is the supposed bashing in this OP?

And why should atheists be required to remain silent in the face of attacks by religious leaders?

:shrug:

[Hello_Kitty]

28. Especially since the Archbishop considers atheism to be a religion.

The offended commenter conveniently ignores that point.

[HuckleB]

33. Exactly!

:hi:

[KonaKane]

24. A terribly unfortunate trait of a "Democratic" forum, to say the least.

I'm not exactly new here, but I sure am getting tired of the regularly assault levelled at people of faith. I don't have your experience with it, but maybe with enough pressure the mods and admins will act on it like they would act on any other bigotry levied here. Bigotry on all levels is disgusting, and really shouldn't be a feature of a forum so otherwise enlightened as this one.

[HuckleB]

26. Maybe you should get offended when an actual assault occurs, instead of inventing one to rant about.

Ugh.

[KonaKane]

30. I get upset at all bigotries. It's a slap in the face of the Democratic way

I'd like to think we are beyond that sort of nonsense.

Was I wrong?

[HuckleB]

32. Wrong about what?

I don't even know what you're talking about, anymore. There is no bigotry in the OP. You are trying to put words in the mouths of others, and that doesn't sit well with me.

[KonaKane]

39. Your OP attempted to paint all "Christian leaders" with the same brush

And you well know it. Maybe you should have a little more discretion in your accusations next time. I know many "Christian leaders" who would not identify with the archbishops views in the least.

This is just another excuse to launch an attack on people of faith here at DU, which appears unfortunately to be de rigeur.

[HuckleB]

42. No, it didn't.

You are continuing to try to put words in my mouth. That's not cool.

[Goblinmonger]

41. Where's the bigotry in the OP?

Didn't say all Christians. Linked to an articles that supported what the title of the OP said. It appears to me that you are equating bigotry with never saying anything bad about. Sorry, but that's not it. Are you saying that these douchebags didn't say this? I really don't understand the cries of bigotry in this instance.

[KonaKane]

49. "Christian Leaders....."

That sure implies "all Christian leaders" to me. Maybe a better worded title. "Some Christian Leaders" or something to that effect.

[HuckleB]

53. No, it doesn't.

That's the headline from the article, which means "more than one."

It's very basic English. Now please address what I wrote.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. Journalists are taught to be economic in headlines.

Don't you think it'd be unrealistic to presume "all" instead of "some" without any article?

Compare: "Manchester United fans vandalize bus in London."

Would it be realistic to presume ALL tens of thousands of Man U fans gathered to vandalize ONE bus?

You're looking for persecution when there is none. But hey, complain to ABC Australia if this will make you feel better.

Huckle B just forwarded the article as-is. Was THAT "bigoted" too?

[KonaKane]

70. Economic, or suggestive?

Also, this is a forum not a newspaper.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

136. You think the choice of wording in the news article is part of a deliberate effort to bash religion?

[Hello_Kitty]

67. IT'S NOT THE OP'S HEADLINE!! IT'S THE ABC ARTICLE'S HEADLINE!!

Sorry for yelling but sheesh. Click on the link, will ya? Then you should really apologize to HuckleB. You won't, but you should.

[KonaKane]

72. Is there a rule here that says you must copy and paste the articles HL?

I dont think there is. In fact, I've noticed quite a bit of creativity from users here on their topic titles.

That's not gonna wash.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. It's good form. Do you think the copying-and-pasting was bigoted? -nt

[KonaKane]

80. Sometimes the choice of topic has an agenda.

I'm sure you know that's true, as I've done the same thing myself. I don't like the GOP ideology so I do post stories I find which cast it in it's worst light. Do I apologize for that? No.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

83. So, you're bashing someone for something you (and most people) do yourself. And you admit it. Wow.

Take a good look at what you just wrote.

[KonaKane]

88. Better read that again.

I said that I post news topics all the time for reasons other than just news reporting. I'm sure you knew that, but since your ego is now so invested in this row, you are not above semantics and wavering on the topic to make your point.

[HuckleB]

109. In other words, you are continuing to excuse the behavior of these clerics.

If not, and if you really care about bigotry, then you would not have a problem with DU addressing the ridiculous statements of the clerics.

So, do you only care about certain types of bigotry?

[muriel_volestrangler]

86. So when you asked "Are Teabaggers terrorists?" a couple of days ago

and called for Obama to "make arrests and convict for it", you were saying that all Teabaggers should be locked up for terrorist offences, were you? Or were you actually saying "are some Teabaggers terrorists"?

[KonaKane]

91. Are you equating Teabagging with someone's religion?

Surely you arent doing that.

[Hello_Kitty]

94. Hey, Archbishop Nelson says atheism is a religion.

Why can't someone characterize the Tea Party as one? :shrug:

[KonaKane]

99. So now you agree with the Archbishop?

I'm confused, I thought you didnt like what he was saying.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

96. Old fallacious tactics are old.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8003776

[Hello_Kitty]

100. Heh heh. eom

[iris27]

132. THANK YOU for putting that in your journal; I'm sure I'm going to be

linking to it later.

Would thank you over there, but it's already archived, being all of a week and a half old. :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. I'm equating the Australian headline with your own use of English

Neither explicitly said 'some'; both meant it. Unless, that is, you really are calling for all teabaggers to be thrown in jail. My point is that the Australian headline uses English in exactly the same way you do, and yet you're choosing to misinterpret the headline so that you can cry 'bigotry!!!' and whine.

[darkstar3]

140. hehe

"godbagging" DOES have a certain ring to it. :)

[Goblinmonger]

125. Then that is your problem and not the OP

or the person who wrote the article. The people being discussed are Christian readers, right? They did use Easter to attack atheists, right? So how the hell is "Christian leaders use Easter to attack atheists" POSSIBLY untrue and bigoted. The word "all" is not use AND THE OP SAID THAT HE FELT IT WASN'T REFLECTIVE OF ALL CHRISTIANS. Lest we forget that tidbit. I guess you have some more time up on the cross before your Christ is going to need it, so go ahead and continue to play the martyr.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

48. Why is the OP bigoted? -nt

[tkmorris]

51. Religious leaders bash Atheists on a daily basis

I don't recall seeing your objections to that bigotry. Could you point me in the proper direction?

I really don't mean to sound too snarky here, but I do think you have a remarkably un-objective viewpoint.

[KonaKane]

56. And atheists make a routine out of bashing people of faith here

on a near daily basis. All of it, from all sides, sucks. But I stand no chance of changing the mind of a religious bigor against people who do not cleave to their beliefs. I have a better chance at smarter, more broadminded people here at DU.

Or is that an incorrect conclusion?

[HuckleB]

60. Try responding to the actual content of OPs and posts.

That would help you to see where bigotry is and isn't.

[KonaKane]

64. This topic is just indicative of a trend on the forum. It needed to be addessed.

And still does.

[HuckleB]

74. Maybe.

But I doubt it.

And that's not an excuse for your behavior.

[Goblinmonger]

127. This is a Forum, as you correctly indicate

Everything is free game. No rules tell anyone to put on kids gloves. If people want to talk about something bad that Christians did, that's OK here. If you want an echo chamber where that doesn't happen and such things are more closely moderated, then make sure you have a donor star and go to your respective religion's group. I promise you that it will not be like R/T. This forum isn't for everyone. It gets harsh at times. But to claim bigotry just because your religion get questioned and not all the posts are about how all Christians eat rainbows and fart butterflies is just silly. If you can't handle or don't like open forum that exists here, then I would suggest a couple things: 1) go to the groups as I mentioned above; 2) go out in the non-liberal internet and post away on some religious discussions and you will find that things aren't so bad here.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

135. Beautiful smackdown.

:applause:

[Goblinmonger]

128. Oh, I forgot option 3.

Alert on the post. The mods will get rid of it if it is bigoted. Seems to have happened to someone on this thread.

[tkmorris]

118. We Atheists at DU are smarter and more broadminded

than religious bigots are. That is your argument? Excellent. I agree with you.

And that is why we criticize them. Because despite the fact that we are the more broad-minded and intelligent group, our money does not say "Be good to each other, this life is all we have", it says "In God we trust". We are demonized and ridiculed to the point where a professed Atheist running for President has a better chance of being shot than of being elected. Can a Christian say that?

Don't even try to equate the criticism Christians get to what Atheists have to endure. It's absurd to try.

[HuckleB]

57. Interestingly, that is what this thread is about.

Somehow that point gets twisted around, however.

[KonaKane]

Maybe the salient point is that bigotry like this stinks, all the away around.

Whether it comes from an Archbishop, Fred Phelps or a gang of fervent atheists on a public forum.

Personally, I think we are better than this. Would you agree?

[HuckleB]

66. Bigotry is wrong.

And it's also wrong to attempt to paint people as bigoted by rewriting what they posted, and then responding to your own creation.

[KonaKane]

75. We agree on that. Bigotry is wrong.

Sounds like an excellent starting point to correct it.

[HuckleB]

78. It's hard to correct anything when people try to repeatedly put words in the mouths of others.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

"Come on people, live and let live. It's a big planet."

Tell that to Mr. Archbishop.

[KonaKane]

27. I'd rather tell that to people smarter than the Archbishop

who should know better, but are acting like him on another level.

Live and let live is a good idea.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. Please reply to HuckleB's post #11. And then read Hello_Kitty's post #25. -nt

[KonaKane]

44. I've already responded to those.

Citing a few bad apples in the Christian leadership doesn't mean all such leaders are of the same mind, which was the implication of the OP.

And please do not pretend like this is a rarity on this forum. All the messages in my inbox from long time regulars on this subject, say otherwise.

[HuckleB]

47. Actually, that's not the implication of the OP.

Have you actually read what I wrote in the OP, or are you really just repeating this behavior of purposely attempting to put words in my mouth?

It's one or the other, so which is it?

Oh, and I see no response to post 11.

[KonaKane]

52. We disagree, obviously.

It's happened before. Maybe being more selective in wording the title would have helped. If I had blasted a topic "Muslim Leaders call for beheading all Americans" because a few of them condoned such a thing, (which I would never do, either) there would rightly be an explosion of criticism for an incendiary title.

[HuckleB]

54. We don't just disagree, IMO.

I think you have repeatedly tried to put words in my mouth.

I find that to be very wrong.

[KonaKane]

59. You are reacting this strongly because you are not used to people of faith

standing up to the bashing that goes on here regularly. I have gotten several messages from regulars who tried to make it an issue but have given up. I guess I'm just new to the table and havent given up yet.

This is what bothers the atheists more than anything else.

[HuckleB]

62. Hogwash.

I'm reacting to someone who repeatedly puts words in my mouth. I find that to be despicable.

You are responding to your own creation. Your responses have nothing to do with this OP so far.

[KonaKane]

68. It's the truth, unfortunately.

And every flabbergasted, blustering response just confirms it.

[HuckleB]

71. WOW!

You put words in my mouth, instead of responding to my actual post, but the words you put in my mouth are "the truth?"

OH GOODNESS!

:rofl:

[KonaKane]

73. I'd like to see a running count of all the religion bashing posts here

I would bet the number astounds you.

[HuckleB]

76. Count 'em up!

I don't care how big the number gets. It's not an excuse for repeatedly putting words in my mouth.

[KonaKane]

81. You don't care how much anti-religious bigotry is here on DU?

Are you sure you want to stick with that?

[HuckleB]

87. How many red herrings are you going to use to deflect from the actual issue at hand?

You repeatedly put words in my mouth.

You have not addressed that wrong in any way, shape, or form.

There is no excuse for it. Further, no red herring is going to make me forget it.

[KonaKane]

92. You mean how many truths am I willing to point out?

As many as necessary. Why, does that upset you?

[HuckleB]

98. You are simply making excuses.

[KonaKane]

101. On the contrary, the regular bashing of the faithful here is no excuse

It is very real. And very putrid.

[HuckleB]

106. And it doesn't excuse putting words in the mouths of others.

[omega minimo]

145. "Putrid, regular bashing of the faithful here" "doesn't excuse putting words in the mouths of other"

:crazy:

[HuckleB]

154. So you have no point at all.

Thanks for nothing.

[Hello_Kitty]

50. Did you bother to click on the link?

"Christian leaders use Easter to attack atheism" is the headline of the ABC article, not the OP's.

[Hello_Kitty]

43. Smarter than Dr. Jenson, the Archbishop? Who has a PhD in Philosophy from Oxford?

WE'RE the ones who should know better? Really? So theism gives one a free pass to be dumb and insensitive, no matter how educated the theist is?

[KonaKane]

45. I didnt give him a pass at all. I called his views stupid and unproductive

And I stick by that. I dont care if he has a PhD or not. Stupid is as stupid does.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. Um, because he's an Archbishop maybe?

We're not talking Fred Phelps here. We're talking about a respected authority figure within a major mainstream religious institution. Who made a public statement condemning atheists. But we're not allowed to criticize what he said because that's "attacking people of faith". Which is funny since the Archbishop characterized atheism as a religion. I guess my "religion" isn't entitled to the same kid glove treatment that yours is.

[KonaKane]

35. I don't care if he's the Pope. I judge people by what they do, not their titles.

All I see here is a church authority figure who said something stupid and unproductive. It's not a good idea to use his folly as a podium for SMARTER people to repeat it.

[Hello_Kitty]

61. Gotcha. Atheists need to just STFU when religious leaders attack us.

Right.

[KonaKane]

79. Hyperbole much?

Where did I say atheists need to "STFU" about anything? This is just more overreaction from the atheist side when they are criticized for unending attacks on people of faith. Nobody needs to "STFU" about their views. But they should be respectful, and offer an exchange of ideas that hopefully seeks to enlighten and not berate or defame.

Would you agree?

[Hello_Kitty]

84. I love being accused of hyperbole by a religious person who thinks she's being attacked by this OP

:rofl:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

89. Actually, it's the logical consequence of all you said here.

You: This man drove East 5 miles.
Me: Yep.
You: And then he drove East 5 more miles.
Me: OK, you say he drove East 10 miles...
You: Where did I say that?

[KonaKane]

93. Hyperbole is never logical. Nor is it even a good idea.

[Walk away]

122. I'm sorry if you think it's rude but that is actually riotously funny!

The Atheist side?
:rofl:

[SkyDaddy7]

95. Your comment is insulting!

To say it is only ONE minister is being completely dishonest!

...And you know it!

[JerseygirlCT]

113. Really, the OP didn't

Though I'm happy to second the live and let live part.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Notice that their attacks on atheism never offer any proof of the validity of their own beliefs

Theist arguments basically boil down to religion is necessary because it makes people behave better. Leaving aside all the examples of religious people NOT behaving well, it fails to make the case that whatever deity they favor exists.

[wtbymark]

19. sticks & stones & the flying spaghetti monster - what-eva

[derby378]

21. This Easter weekend, I attended a Friends Meeting for Worship AND a Roman Catholic Easter Vigil...

...and nobody in either congregation mentioned one word against atheists.

Honestly, some clergy need to get a life.

[HuckleB]

23. As I stated in the OP, I don't think this is representative of Christians or Christianity.

Sounds like you had a wonderful Easter.

Cheers!

[derby378]

58. Thanks! It was certainly unusual

I've described it as a bit of "culture shock," since I am a Quaker. Here I am, in a Roman Catholic sanctuary illuminated only by our candles, following the Missal with my wife as the lighting is increased with every reading from the Bible, watching neophytes get baptized and Eucharist being celebrated, getting my own self sprinked by water from the priest's aspergillum, etc.

It was an interesting and edifying experience.

[Ezlivin]

22. On Sunday across the U.S., millions of atheists flock to their tabernacles

Where they gather to hear speakers decry the rise of religion. They join together in hymns of praise for humankind and pass a collection plate around so that funds can be gathered and used to send other atheists all over the world to convert others. Children are shunted off to Sunday School where they are taught math, science, biology and how to use logic. During the summer nearly every atheist tabernacle has Vacation Atheism School where children are encouraged to bring any friends who are religionists so that they can be shown the error of their ways.

Atheists go door-to-door to convince those with religion to abandon it for reason. They carry pamphlets, DVDs and other tools to demonstrate their superiority.

They also have special gatherings in stadiums across the land where they are pumped up by guest speakers and energized to push their atheism with greater effort. Atheists own dozens of television stations and hundreds of radio stations from which the incessant message to "become rational" is broadcast. On days that are special to atheists the major networks will run, without being asked, movies that show atheists in a positive, affirming light.

There are speciality stores in most malls that carry only atheist books and information. There's also atheist rock, atheist rap, atheist country and an entire sub-genre of music dedicated to the tenets of atheism.

It's a widely known fact that very, very few politicians can get elected in the U.S. unless they make a public proclamation of their atheism. Every president ever elected has proclaimed his atheism.

An atheist leads off every session of Congress with a statement or two. Across the country nearly every town meeting or chamber of commerce meeting begins with an atheist's statement. No one really thinks about it because it's so widespread and has been going on for so long. Even athletes and entertainers commonly praise atheism after winning a game or an award. It's very common to see football players gathered around before and after a game united in their atheism and unashamed to publicly show it.

Poll after poll shows that atheists are trusted much more than any religionist. In fact many companies have an unspoken opposition to hiring anyone who publicly declares he or she is a religionist.

And this is why religionists are so very, very afraid.

[Rebubula]

34. Meh...

..this cult will be relegated to the dustbin of history just all that came before.

Sorry Christians...you are simply following another human-control story like the hundreds that came and went prior to this one.

Once we had telescopes to see past the stars and microscopes to see at a sub-atomic level, the need for a god to explain away the mysteries of life evaporated...at least for those that see.

[sakabatou]

38. Hey Peter Jensen...

Since when could you throw the first stone?

[HuckleB]

40. +1

:rofl:

[Phlem]

46. It could simply be

re-directing your attention from the Pope.

-p

[Hello_Kitty]

124. Could definitely be that.

"Never mind the sex abuse and the cover ups. Over there! Non-believers!"

[TlalocW]

82. Any church that complains about the upsurge of atheism has itself to blame

I learned that God was a loving God as a kid.

As an adult, I'm now faced with the reality that the so-called representatives of God want us to believe He hates homosexuals, independent women, etc. These same representatives abuse children, use money from the faithful to live lavish lifestyles, and want me to live an ignorant life. They don't like it when I attempt to learn for myself and discover they're the latest incarnation of people who used the Bible to justify slavery and a whole host of other immoral activities. That Sodom and Gammorah wasn't about homosexuality until it was convenient for it to be.

I'm not an atheist, but I sure as hell don't attend church. I don't need to be lied to by a bunch of lying bastards in thousand dollar suits wearing shit-eating grins on their faces.

TlalocW

[KonaKane]

85. What I find as revealing as the thoughtless words of this Archbishop

Is the ferocity of some people on this forum used to defend the incessant swipes at people of faith. Bigotry of all kinds, stinks.

I hope this can turn around here, because it doesn't paint a forum like this one in its best light. In fact, it gived ammunition to those against us and chews away our own numbers.

[HuckleB]

97. The only problem that I see is that one poster repeatedly puts words in the mouths of others.

Apparently, with the attempt at creating an impression of bigotry where none exists.

I find such behavior to be wrongheaded. I suspect it also gets in the way of addressing actual bigotry.

[KonaKane]

107. I think you have an unhealthy fascination with this "putting words in my mouth" thing

that is now bordering on obsessive stalking behavior.

[HuckleB]

116. WOW!

I am responding to your repeated posts that do exactly that!

"Obsessive stalking behavior?"

Get a mirror!

[Hello_Kitty]

119. I think it stinks when people from dominant favored groups appropriate the language of oppression

I once had a coworker tell me I should leave the country when I told her I was an atheist. Get back to us when that happens to you.

[Goblinmonger]

129. I know you are going to say, "when did I say that"

but this is another example of "atheists need to stfu." Why do I think that? "it gived ammunition to those against us and chews away our own numbers." I'm assuming you are talking about liberals when you say "own." So atheists need to be quiet so that we don't give nasty Bill O'Reily/Glen Beck/Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity something to talk about? They can kiss my ass. And the fact that fellow progressives will jump off of protecting fellow liberals against bigotry (which the statements of the christian leaders in the OP CERTAINLY is) but instead launch off against a group that has been identified in studies as the most hated minority group in the US just so conservative blowhards will have to look 5 more seconds before finding something else to bloviate about speaks VOLUMES about you and your "own." If you can't see how your attitude would rile atheists a little bit, you need to do some self-reflection.

But, hey, keep going on about the nasty atheists on DU and don't say a damn word about all the shit that is being flung at us from leaders of christian churches. THAT makes a lot of sense. Seems like it would "chew away our own numbers," but you can afford to lose the atheists, I suppose.

[Hello_Kitty]

133. Good catch on the concern trolling. eom

[boomerbust]

90. Here

Is the Christian {Lutheran} beliefs that I most remember and TRY to live by. Love thy neighbor as thyself and Judge not lest ye be judged. Pretty straight forward but probably impossible to always adhere to.

[WolverineDG]

103. Well, atheists have used Easter to attack Christians on DU

sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.


dg

[HuckleB]

104. What is with the bad excuses offered up today?

[WolverineDG]

Not a bad excuse; it's the truth

Hard to hold the moral high ground when your side's hands are just as dirty as the others.

dg

[HuckleB]

111. "My side."

Thank you for proving that you are simply making excuses.

Bigotry is wrong, no matter who does it.

Apparently, you believe it's ok, as long it's not aimed at you.

[WolverineDG]

115. I'm not making excuses, I'm pointing out the truth

and the ugly truth on DU that atheists regularly & repeatedly attack people of faith, most particularly those who say or hint that they are Christians. So they really don't have room to complain when someone returns the favor, so to speak.


dg

[HuckleB]

117. And that is not an excuse for the behavior of these clerics.

Nor is it ever legitimate to use anecdotes of bigotry to excuse other forms of bigotry.

[WolverineDG]

120. Oh, so pointing out hypocrisy is wrong now?

Really? Because had I not seen the all the anti-Christian posts by atheists on DU & been called "stupid" by a couple because I refuse to be converted to their belief system, I'd be more inclined to rush to their defense.

But now, meh.

dg

[HuckleB]

121. Funny how you failed to notice that your attempt to point out hypocrisy ended up being hypocritical.

Again, excusing bigotry "because others do it" is not legitimate.

[WolverineDG]

130. So I'm supposed to be a good girl & keep quiet AND stand up for the same bigots

who repeatedly come after me?

Wrong.

But really you shouldn't be surprised when those you continually kick around & call stupid don't rush to your defense. That's not hypocrisy. That's getting a taste of your own medicine & if you don't like the taste, quit dishing it out.

dg

[HuckleB]

134. And now you're choosing to put some ugly words in my mouth.

WOW! :wow:

There is no excuse for that. And acting in this manner does not fight bigotry in any way.

Seriously, take a long look in the mirror.

[WolverineDG]

138. Sorry, not rushing in to defend anyone who kicks me & those who have faith around

like tin cans & calls us "stupid" & our beliefs & holidays "myths" & "superstitious twaddle" in posts that are geared to be as offensive as they possibly can be.

Before this past weekend, I would have felt it my duty to speak out & do something when the asshats on my side of the aisle say something ridiculous. But since then, I've experienced the open contempt, arrogance, and outright bigotry of atheists on DU first-hand, so why bother? And if you don't feel the same way as these atheists do, why did YOU remain silent while all this was going on? And if you remained silent, you've got no cause to tell me I'm wrong for doing the same.

dg

[HuckleB]

155. Funny thing about that claim.

It's crap.

When has the OP done any of what you claim?

It's time for you to either put up, or admit that you attacked the wrong person.

[darkstar3]

156. BWAHAHAHAHA!

the open contempt, arrogance, and outright bigotry of atheists on DU

OK, let's see...

Open contempt...well, your behavior in this thread has been contemptible.

Arrogance...it's difficult to sound anything EXCEPT arrogant when you are explaining to someone that they are behaving like an asshat.

Outright bigotry...sure, because telling you that you are behaving like an asshat is exactly the same as using slurs and claiming that "your kind" have no place in government or civilized society.

Oh, but I forgot..."blessed are you when they persecute you for my name's sake"...I guess you're just really hunting for that extra blessing...carry on, no need to let FACTS distract you from currying favor with your chosen deity.

[KonaKane]

108. What a shocker.

.

[iris27]

152. Yeah, because a handful of people posting Zombie Jesus cartoons

on a message board is totally the equivalent of major religious leaders with pulpits before thousands claiming that atheists want to rule the world...

[beam me up scottie]

153. !

[bamacrat]

105. How many atheists do you see preaching that others must believe what they do?

How many atheists go on mission trips to spread the word of man, or lobby their senators, or whatever? None. Not a contest just an alternate existence.

[omega minimo]

142. How many atheists do you see using this holiday to

mock and attack Christians?

[humblebum]

149. Um? Lemme see - Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Maher... nt

[JerseygirlCT]

110. I think he misses things by a yard or more, yes.

And what exactly he thinks he can achieve with this is beyond me.

Someone else's non-belief is no threat to my belief. And I cannot imagine the person who has become a believer after being harangued in this way.

So what's the point? To stir up some imagined base of Christians eager to differentiate themselves from atheists? It's just plain weird.

And beyond that, it's unnecessarily antagonistic.


And no, that's not at all what Easter is about.

[HuckleB]

112. EXACTLY!

Hope you had a wonderful Easter!

Cheers!

[JerseygirlCT]

114. Thanks

Missed being with my extended family, but we had a nice Easter all the same. It's a very happy day for Christians - which makes it even more puzzling when someone uses the occasion to attack other people.

Strange and stupid, IMHO. And thank you for not using him to paint the rest of us. IIRC, that diocese in Australia is known to be far right and quite intolerant among Anglicans.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

137. Yes, we had a joyous Easter celebration, too. and I can't remember the last time

the clergy of any church I attended even mentioned atheism in any context.

[humblebum]

126. This is probably a response to "The Rise of Atheism 2010" convention

recently held in Melbourne. Part of the billing reads "...atheism and secularism are forces to be reckoned with." No doubt a culture war is developing. Where it will end is anyone's guess.

http://www.atheistconvention.org.au/

[darkstar3]

139. That depends on the Christian.

For some Christians, the ridicule of faiths other than their own and especially the lack of faith is a tradition, a pass-time, and a required part of any major holiday. They like to tell humorous stories like "The Atheist and Bear" and inject such things into the Big Meal Grace as "and we know only fools don't believe in you, lord"...

(oh no, I'm not bitter...)

What's really fun is when some of these Christian sects take it upon themselves to "educate" members of their faith about the other sects of Christianity and other religions. It's hilarious to watch Lutherans tell their children about how stupid other people are for believing in things like reincarnation or the Baptist "age of reason."

In short, it's hard to say what is representative of Christianity or Christians in general, because some people here on DU are part of faith traditions which don't give two-shits about people who disagree with them, but that's not the experience anyone has here in the Bible Belt with "general Christianity."

[ZombieHorde]

146. Bwahahahaha! They want to insult and belittle us by calling us religious.

I love it!

[humblebum]

150. Just like the courts in the US have done? NT