How do you deal with fundies?

[hyphenate]

I've been burned a couple of times with fundies, and frankly, they are the one group of people for which I still don't have any patience--at least not in theory.

We're NOT talking about the average believer. We're talking about the smirking, arrogant assholes who are in your face, who smile and piss you off even as they try to make you feel useless in arguing with them. I had this situation in my own life, as I've launched more than one diatribe on the subject, with someone who I thought was my best friend. I experienced her quietly smirking as my blood pressure soared, telling me she had submitted my name to a Pat Robertson prayer circle, and I would go off like that. For health reasons, as well as my continued sanity, I finally told her off, over 3 years ago, and I have to admit my blood pressure has gone considerably down since.

But now, I have another one to deal with, thankfully only through an email group. This person is very much a global warming denier, with the constant chant of "it's only a mini-ice age, not global warming." I chose some time ago to simply keep my mouth shut when it came to some people like this, as long as I didn't have to deal with them on a day to day basis. This person, I recently found out, is a lot older than I originally thought--she is 75. She has that same arrogant tone as my former friend, but I don't know if she is harmless or not--certainly, when people are influencing other people at some level, you are elevating the harm done, and I am not sure whether it's my place to say something, when her only crime might be just being an old biddy with some outspoken misconceptions.

I find some things amusing, though. For example, she owns several domains, one of them is something like "theendisnear.com" while another is jesus-saves.us. But that's an interesting paradox--if she believes that the apocalypse is right around the corner, why should she be such a denier of global warming? Is this one of those areas where it makes more sense to back both horses, just to be on the safe side?

[YOY]

1. I refuse to call them "Christians". That's how.

Pisses them off like nothing else. They take that luxury quite often with other denominations they disagree with...so fuck 'em.

[lib2DaBone]

2. You can't deal with them... they are walking-talking zombies....

the best you can do is stay away from them.. or keep a loaded gun and hope you hear them coming.....

[Old Codger]

3. I just

tell them I have a problem relating to adults who have an invisible friend...

[TNDemo]

5. My invisible friend

can beat up your invisible friend.

[Old Codger]

9. LOL

for sure

[HBravo]

4. If they are a

true friend agree to disagree as they are not going to change you and you are not going to change them and value the friendship. If they are not a true friend smile nod and move on.

[LuvNewcastle]

6. I tell them I'm not interested in changing religions.

If they continue to try to convert me, I tell them it's rude to keep talking about a subject when someone asks them to stop.

[notesdev]

7. Well, first you teach them about

irony.

But you gotta tell me - this is just a clever piece of satire, isn't it?

[hyphenate]

14. Depends

If unknowingly on my side, perhaps: I've been suffering for a few days with allergies or sinusitis, so I could be a little more obtuse than normal. I do notice a little bit of meandering in my OP, but dealing with some of the extremists is, unfortunately, real.

As for the fundie, I don't think she is even aware of how people other than her "kind" would see anything approaching logic in this hunk of one of her more recent emails:

....I was 50 years old when I first started with computers. I was born in 1935...interestingly, during that time the leftists were trying to float the "global warming" balloon. Either the people then were smarter or more knowledgeable or both because it went over like a lead balloon. In the seventies, it was the "coming ice age." Again, no luck. Now, they're back to the global warming and a lot of people are falling for it...just boggles the mind. It has never been about the climate...it has always been about people control. What people don't seem to know is that the planet is coming off of the "Little Ice Age" that followed the Medieval Warm Period , so, naturally, it's going to be getting warmer. Like, duh!

Now, whether that is disingenuous or just plain ignorant, I can't tell. If I had to guess, I would say more of the former, but we've seen idiots on the far right for quite some time now, and anyone that claims to know something "for sure" is invariably stupid as shit in the end.

Just to let you know, when I'm not feeling good, my irascibility is heightened, and I get more cranky than normal. (My mom used to tell me she knew if I was in the throes of PMS by how miserable I was, and how miserable I wanted to make everyone else feel.)

[hyphenate]

15. PS

I found an important clue in an earlier email that I overlooked, simply because my own upbringing has not been acquainted with "society" and the people at that level. She mentions she made her "debut" at some point, so I am thinking she was schooled in the true blueblood fashion, and not the way the rest of us humans have to do it. (Strangely enough, there is a thread I read earlier about rich kids getting passes in their educations) There is a certain demarcation line between them, and us, I suppose, but there are plenty of very earnest rich people who love knowledge. I suspect the very wealthy people use the excuse that they don't need to learn anything, because there will always be someone doing things for them.

[silverweb]

8. I don't.

It took me a while, but I learned that carefully researched and documented factual material has no effect on any of their positions or arguments, and patient elucidation is an art and effort completely wasted on them.

"Discussion" with fundies is a total waste of time and energy.

Any fundie foolish enough to try to engage with me on their delusions or obsessions, or in any kind of evangelizating effort, gets a quiet but firm "no" and a view of (1) my door closing in their face or (2) my back as I walk away.

[Ian David]

10. They don't REALLY disbelieve Global Warming. They actually WELCOME it as an aspect of Armageddon.

They just DENY it so that nobody will try to STOP it.

Ask her which side of The Apocalypse she THINKS she's fighting for, and how certain that is REALLY who she's getting her marching orders from.

[Warpy]

11. She knows HER end is near, that's part of it.

She's just arrogant enough to want to take the rest of the planet with her.

You're not going to change a 75 year old. She's going to continue to remain ignorant and a sucker for whatever hogwash she hears on "Christian" television. She also doesn't see any benefit in inconveniencing herself in order to save the planet at her age. She thinks her ticket is punched for heaven and that's all there is. She doesn't give a hoot about anybody else that she's leaving behind.

When someone starts going smugly ignorant on me I cut my losses. They are not going to change until the brick wall falls on them and they realize nothing was holding it up but hot air from the pulpit. That's happening quite frequently this days as the people who bought into prosperity theology see the only person getting prosperous was the minister, living large on 10% of everybody else's income.

I'd suggest you realize this lady (and I use the term advisedly rather than descriptively) is not going to change to suit you. I hope for her sake that she does change but I realize she probably won't.

It's time to cut your losses and move on.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. If they're just ignorant (as opposed to fanatical), some surprising facts can sometimes open their

minds a bit.

I once shocked a fundie I met at a social occasion by informing her that the Left Behind books were written by someone associated with Sun Myung Moon.
Since her church taught that the Moonies were evil but the Left Behind books were practically second only to the Bible as recommended reading material, I could see that her head was about to explode.

"Could it be that your minister has been deluded?" I asked. "What else might he be wrong about?"

I left the time bomb ticking away in her head.

[rrneck]

13. I moved 2000 miles away. nt

[pokerfan]

16. When you are not among men of reason, it is better to run than argue.

--The Undesiderata

[raccoon]

17. I just love to read posts where DU'ers are talking about fundies!

I got a good laugh from this thread. :rofl:


Fundies are arrogant, self-righteous, think they're superior to you becuase they're "saved." They think "You're going to hell because you don't believe EXACTLY the way I believe." They think, "I'm perfect, and you're shit at best."

And those are their good qualities. :-)

[Iggo]

18. Depends...are there witnesses?

[Igel]

19. I've never had any long-term problem.

And only a couple of short-term ones.

I had a problem with two fundies. One was a newbie to Campus Crusade for Christ and he insisted on trying to convert me. The other was a socialist and he insisted on trying to convert me. By "trying to convert" I mean actively approach me, repeatedly, vehemently, and even angrily, in spite of my protestations that I was utterly uninterested in adopting their viewpoint. "No thanks" just led to an increase in decibels and time commitment to being annoyed.

It's the attempts to force me to change my mind that I found annoying and, ultimately, intolerable. Especially when both relied on me for help. The first, to proof his journalism assignments and tell him how to make them at least minimally coherent. The second to explain to him what the Russian readings he'd assigned his community college students actually meant.

Otherwise, when they'd say things like, "I'm praying for you," I'd just say thank you. It's a sign of concern. When they invite me to an iftar dinner or to church or to some activist meeting, I say, "thank you, but no thank you." "Can we please not talk about this?" also handled a lot of cases. Simple civility, something taught to me as a kid, served me well.

I also don't need other people to think that I'm right or to convert others to my way of thinking. If I disagree, I'll usually state why and leave it at that. Nonetheless, some of the most entertaining and enlightening series of exchanges I've had have been with people who would like me to convert to their way of thinking but didn't really force the issue: We could discuss and debate things and I could come to a better understanding of what their values were, why their value system was structured the way it was and how that influenced what they believed. Seldom was it what I had assumed it was, based on my biased and partial perception of what they had said. Invariably I found that even people I completely disagreed with and thought completely whackadoo had something worth respecting; it took an attempt to find it sometimes. But that's often what empathy and appreciating diversity is all about.

The only ones that weren't entertaining or enlightening were the two I mentioned above because they were far more interested in converting than in presenting, in gaining an adherent than in gaining knowledge. It was all about them being right; they were far, far too emotionally needy. I finally resorted to getting the CCC guy into trouble with his mentors, until finally they tried to convert me with no success; so then just told him to leave me alone. The socialist was more a problem, he had no mentors. I finally told him that if everybody like me was so stupid, how was it that he needed my help; when he said I was an exception, I pointed out that it meant that his "everybody" judgment was no more accurate than his linguistic skills, and perhaps he should consider that his failure on two counts pointed to a more systemic cognitive deficit on his part and that he was no less stupid than those he felt so superior to and more stupid than at least one. Second problem solved.

[immoderate]

20. I ask questions. Drives them nuts.

Recently a fundie was spouting his creationist bullshit. And he said, "The only way to create information is with intelligence." And he was smug and proud because he had uttered an unassailable piece of common sense wisdom.

So I asked, "Why does your doctor ask you for a stool sample?" and I added "where's the intelligence?"

A friend walked over and noticed the fundie inflating. "What's the question?" So I repeated, and embellished, "Why does a doctor get a stool sample? What does he need it for?"

Friend looks at fundie who is about to explode. Fundie says, "He wants you to say 'information.'"

Not so, I say, "I'm just asking a question. You might have a different answer."

Fundie says, "You're using a different definition of the word!"

Me: "What definition are you using and how is it different from what the doctor is looking for?"

Fundie, now totally flummoxed and having no answers does a typical move of desperation, he recommends a book. I ask him to tell me what he means if he knows what he means, and that I'm not going to read a book because he doesn't know what he's talking about. I suggest that he read the book and figure out what he's saying.

"You're being dishonest," he tells me.

"How am I dishonest? I just asked a question."

He gets up and walks away. (Some time later, he came back for more. They don't quit.)

--imm

[Deep13]

21. If it's just by email, you can choose to delete it without reading.

Or you could respond. You might ask her to justify her conclusions.

As far as being a "real" Christian, I'll let the believers argue that point among themselves.

[RagAss]

22. Treat them like the mentally ill people they are.

[TrogL]

23. attempt to convert them to Christianity