If someone wants to believe in God and conduct themselves morally....go for it.

[PretzelWarrior]

If someone wants to believe there is no God and conduct themselves morally...go for it.

I can't stand hypocrites on either side of the road. I can't stand someone who tries to convince me they have irrefutable proof one way or another.

I, myself, see compelling evidence for an intelligent God and plenty of evidence that indicates we're all in this on our own and need to find ways to chart our own destiny.

People who are saying we shouldn't respect others' religious beliefs and try to understand where they're coming from are usually referring to Christians and bend over backward to understand Eastern mysticism....but feel they are "workin for the man" if they admit a sincere person can follow Christian teachings and try to do good for their neighbor in the name of God.

On the other hand, for someone to attack a group of atheists because they believe strongly? Well, that is very bigoted and close minded as well.

We should all be free thinkers and willingly open our minds to new thoughts we hadn't considered before. We may individually reject a particular line of though after some time of research and dialogue, but that doesn't mean we make up our minds for good that we have the ultimate truth one way or the other.

Before Copernicus, all authorities KNEW the sun revolved around the earth and anything other was heresy.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Copernican heliocentrism might not be the best analogy for this.

[PretzelWarrior]

2. it is. because then the next round of scientific discovery disproved his work

just like Darwin's work has largely been usurped by other better truths about what happened and is happening.

Anyone who says the truth is completely knowable is either deceived or trying to deceive.

[wantoutnow]

3. Its not about respecting other religious beliefs

Its people who want to shove their religious beliefs down our throats. I know of no atheist groups that actively go around trying to deny other's rights. There are plenty of people who are atheist who are tired of being smacked with a bat on the head by religious people and when they say stop it, religious folks claim persecution? Thats like an older brother smothering his younger brother uner a pillow and when the younger brother complains, the older brother says stop smothering yourself.

[RagAss]

4. Thanks and welcome to DU.

[PretzelWarrior]

6. Ditto. Didn't notice post count.

Welcome to the club.

[wantoutnow]

14. thanks!

:)

[PretzelWarrior]

5. I know what you mean. I don't like religion foisted either. But the larger issue

of several posts of several posters touched on the absolute hatred and attack of religion by some on these boards. I would agree I've seen that. So I'm saying possibly we need to attack each thing on it's own merits or lack thereof.

If someone believes God is lord and they live in accordance with teachings about not cheating on their spouse, donating to the poor, and living a decent life....no problem with me.

If they say "God told me to kill your family." Well, I'm gonna have a huge fucking problem with that.

[wantoutnow]

7. I have no hatred of others religion

until people try and use their religion to tell me how to live my life. Like I said. Ive seen no atheist groups going around and demanding people not believe in a god and forming groups and organizations to control and affect other peoples rights. I read your comment about evolution too. Interesting. What other science has come along and usurped evolution? Links?

[PretzelWarrior]

9. it is the types of theories describing evolution that have changed. natural selection...

as described by Darwin has largely been debunked as a likely cause of evolution.

[wantoutnow]

11. I would respectfully ask for links again

Darwin wrote "On the Origin of Species", and is the basis for the theory of evolution. Various methods of radio dating, an extensive fossil record and observed and repeated experimentation with generations of animals in labratory experiments strongly support the theory of evolution.

As a side note, Einsteins theory of relativity is the modern basis of GPS navigation, computer design and engineering, and various astronomy based science applications. I hope its not the word theory that throws you off, as theories are refined over time or rejected. In fact, most of the scientific community would disagree with you, including biologists, chemists, geologists, etc. But I would love to look at any links you may have.

[PretzelWarrior]

18. Huh? I will provide links. But evolution theory is still alive and well.

It is his natural selection theory as described by him that has been somewhat rejected by modern scientific community as they have been able to advance scientific inquiry in the fields of molecular biology, chemistry, etc.

I will find links. We are actually agreeing on more tha we are disagreeing. I brought up Copernicus because at one point he was challenging "the given truth". Later, his "truth" was disproven or modified or whatever you want to call it.

Back to my point that no atheist or Deist or Polytheist can claim to have the truth in all its entirety.

[wantoutnow]

23. I have to agree with you

Darwin is actually incorrectly credited and associated with evolution. His works, which are very dry reading, advance his theories of natural selection, which bolster evolution. The idea of evolution is actually much older than Darwin.

[wantoutnow]

24. also

I think you are misunderstanding the atheist position. I cant speak for everyone, but I certainly dont think atheism has all of the "truth". We just dont use the conveinent idea of a god to explain everything we dont understand. It is very possible that the human brain is not and will never be capable of understanding "everything". That does not necessitate the idea of a "god". My last sentence is what a lot of people never consider.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Most atheists I know don't make positive claims about deities.

We just don't believe in any of them.

[wantoutnow]

17. I forgot to mention

the large and growing field of genetics. Genetics, among all the fields, mosts strongly supports the theory of evolution and natural selection.

[beam me up scottie]

8. DU infidels often post a drawing that you might enjoy:

[PretzelWarrior]

10. oh believe me. I am right with you on their bullshit "being oppressed" thing.

I argued with my sister who was running with that. She pivoted nicely and said she and REAL Christians were being persecuted by the fake Dominionist Kristians of televangelist world.

[beam me up scottie]

16. I love most liberal believers, hell, I sleep with a catholic every night.

I've had many chances to kill him and drink his blood but he's just too cute.

Whenever I feel like bashing the fungelicals on DU I try to qualify my statements, I personally like the term "christianists".

[Dorian Gray]

37. This

made me spit out my coffee. LOL.

[beam me up scottie]

42. He's a bad, bad catholic.

But a good man. :)

[TexasObserver]

15. There's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

[beam me up scottie]

19. Have you seen this one?:

[TexasObserver]

21. Ha! It's like the "we want a Nativity Scene Everywhere" crowd.

And what sports event can occur without a prayer to thank the God of Republicans?

[beam me up scottie]

25. Oh jeez, down here pre-high school football game prayers are the worst.

High school football IS a religion. Very scary :scared:

[PretzelWarrior]

22. excellent! of course, could just as easily be a Muslim whacking the gay rights person.

[wantoutnow]

27. actually

In many muslim nations, they execute gay people. ALL religion seeks to control people. Its not just "christians" doing it. By the way, your tag line is wrong. the USA is most certainly NOT a LEFT leaning nation. We are about as close to fascism as you get.

[PretzelWarrior]

29. no. the corporations are fascist. media is tilting right. but the PEOPLE...AMERICA

is left-leaning.

[beam me up scottie]

28. No, muslims would have killed the poor guy.

I believe this is more of a caricature of the extremely vocal fundies like Judge Roy Moore. :puke:

[pokerfan]

40. Along the same line

http://www.atheist-community.org/atheisteve

[beam me up scottie]

41. *snarf*

I love Atheist Eve. :D

[TexasObserver]

13. Good post and well said.

[ashling]

35. There are also a lot of individual atheists who

fling gratuitous insults at people of religion. If, for instance, someone happens to mention something they heard or saw on their way to church or something else like that (ie, only no prosletizing or even statement of belief), they shouldn't have to hear all sorts of insults like "You believe in that superstition....."

I do not believe in any organized religion and have had to but up with Christianist abuse all my life, have been "smacked on the head," but it cuts the other way too.

Why bring it up?

[Greyhound]

12. Your argument is specious, at best.

There is no evidence whatsoever, not one shred, for the existence of some super-being that is all, created all, or knows all, let alone one that gives two shits about what goes on here.

Believe what you want, but please stop trying to rationalize it as anything other than wishful thinking.

[PretzelWarrior]

20. well then you are in disagreement with Einstein. I'm not trying to prove anything

I'm not trying to disprove anything. For you to say that absence of proof is proof of absence is a little dogmatic.

[Greyhound]

31. Einstein had his beliefs, but he never once promoted them as anything other than

that, his beliefs. I'm not disagreeing with him at all, what I am disagreeing with are those that try to take this brilliant man's beliefs and use them to promote or justify their own agenda, which he would, almost certainly, disagree with.

Jesus, Allah, Jah, Krishna, Yahweh, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Santa Clause, Moroni, Bob Dobbs, whatever, it makes no difference to me and you're welcome to them, but please keep the rest of us out of your fantasies and try to remember that they are just that, otherwise people with different fantasies will imagine that your fantasies are justification for them to kill you, and they might get me by mistake.

[Odin2005]

32. Einstien only invoked "God" in a purely poetic way.

At most he was a "Scientific Pantheist", which is, to quote Dawkins, "Sexed up Atheism".

[sam sarrha]

30. i find it strange that i have to respect other peoples Religion.. >Link>>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/respect
1: a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2: an act of giving particular attention : consideration
3 a: high or special regard : esteem b: the quality or state of being esteemed cplural : expressions of respect or deference

i was raised Free Hollyness Pentecostal.. tortured and tormented as an autistic child by a CULT trying to cast out my Demons all the F'n time. i have no respect for any religion. i dont poke religious people with a stick, i do interrupt Freepers proselytizing, preaching or getting episodic. if they can espouse their beliefs so can i. they want to Witness, i can tell the rest of the story. if they want everyone to agree with them.. they know what Forums shout Amen to their stuff, they can go there and hang out.

when i was 7 i decided to commit suicide, i crawled into the hall closet and cursed god, told em what i thought about his bullshit. squeezed my eyes shut and waited for him to strike me dead.. then my mother found me and i had to go to church anyway. but from that day on i was an Athiest... till about 25 when i just didn't give a rats ass about it one way or the other.. i do warn others on occasion about religion, especially the Fundi cults.

[Odin2005]

33. OMG, this fellow Autistic person and Atheist thinks that is fucking horrible!

:cry: :hug:

[Enthusiast]

36. Just consider the number

that have suffered a similar fate at the hands of those that insist their particular all powerful God is best. There has got to be hundreds of thousands of victims, at least.

I don't mind that another embraces a religion. Go for it. However, I do not want mythology taught in science class.

Evolution? The theory of Evolution is stronger than ever. Each and every new discovery in genetics and paleontology strengthens and validates the theory of evolution. Science should not have to accommodate those believers of a young earth and sky god.

[Dorian Gray]

38. What a horrible upbringing

I'm sorry that you were abused in such a manner as a child. That is horrible and completely unjust.

[Richard Steele]

34. I believe in G*d. I'm just not so INSECURE about it that I need to shove it down anyone's throat.

I believe. I've personally had a "Higher Power"
intervene in my life in a very real and direct way.

The result of that is that I am now entirely SECURE
in my beliefs; as such, I feel no need to discuss them with
anyone else.

The shitheads who spend their time screaming about their
"faith" are liars who are desperate to fool someone.
Pathetic, sad little people who are desperate to
appear "faithful" in someone else's eyes.

[rd_kent]

39. "I, myself, see compelling evidence for an intelligent God" - Do you? Please share?

What EVIDENCE do you see?

[ZombieHorde]

43. I have never had some one claim to me that they had irrefutable proof for or against any god.

"People who are saying we shouldn't respect others' religious beliefs and try to understand where they're coming from are usually referring to Christians"

Actually, they are usually referring to Christianity. The core teachings of Christianity come from the Holy Bible, a book which advocates homophobia, slavery, and the killing of witches. If someone wishes to join a club which uses a book which advocates homophobia, slavery, and witch killing, then they should not be surprised to have their chosen club strongly argued against.

If someone has an argument against godlessness, then they should feel free to present their argument. Likewise for any other idea.