Any Bhuddists here on DU?

[grasswire]

I am in a situation with two regionally prominent Buddhists where they are acting with abysmal integrity, scamming my family and other families out of tens of thousands of dollars, disrupting and destroying harmony for many people.

I cannot understand what is driving them to behave in this manner.

Are there people who claim to be Buddhists but act in this manner? These people appear (to me) to be hypocritical fraudsters.

[saltpoint]

1. The Buddhists I know are top-drawer folks. We love 'em.

[grasswire]

2. that's what is so astonishing

I'm tellin' ya, these people are prominent. Founders of a large Buddhist community. What they are doing simply makes peoples' jaws drop when they hear about it.

I always thought of Buddhists as superior people. Ron Reagan Jr., for example.

[saltpoint]

4. My experiences with Buddhists have been invariably positive.

Fundamentalist Christians, eh, not so much.

[imdjh]

9. So what are they doing?

And for the record, I have never seen a monk (all the local ones are Asian and look real) driving a crappy car. The most recent memories are Toyota Highlander, Camry, and Avalon. They seem to have a thing for Toyota, but then Toyota is the most popular car at the Asian supermarket where I see these people.

I read somewhere awhile ago that there was quite a bit of animosity in Tibet or Nepal or somewhere around there, against the abbey monks for financial extravagance.

Can you imagine how much gasoline must cost in the Himalayas?

[scarletwoman]

17. Please name the sect. Knowing the teaching lineage of someone claiming to be Buddhist is really

important.

There are sects that claim to be Buddhist that are little better than cults and have no true spiritual lineage.

[grasswire]

19. I'll send you a PM (eom)

[scarletwoman]

20. Thank you. I've sent you a reply.

I have to go to bed now, but if you need more let me know. I'll be back on DU tomorrow.

Good night and good luck,
sw

(edited for clarification)

[grasswire]

24. thanks so much for your insight

It helps a lot. My opinion of Buddhists was confirmed. These people are quacks.

[scarletwoman]

25. Well, anyone can call themselves a "Buddhist", so caveat emptor.

The real test is in how they conduct themselves. Buddhism is a pure teaching, but not all who claim to follow it actually are.

As another great teacher once said, "By their fruits shall you know them."

I've met many wonderful Tibetan lamas over the years, to a one they would most certainly dismiss the guy you're referencing as a false teacher. (I've gone into much more detail in my latest pm to you.)

Peace,
sw

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. What does their claiming to be Buddhists

have to do with the scam?

I'm curious..............

[imdjh]

10. I tend to think of Buddhists as being more honorable than most people.

Wishful thinking perhaps.

[Akoto]

5. As a Buddhist, I can safely answer ...

Of course! People of any belief system can become scam artists, and they may actually use those beliefs as a convenient shield or as a weapon. Buddhism has little to do with their potential ability to commit a crime.

[bananas]

6. If they're public figures, go ahead and name them.

Or at least mention which sect they belong to.

[grasswire]

14. it's my understanding that two local reporters...

....have an interest in the story.

[flvegan]

7. Anyone can claim to be a buddhist.

I think that's all you really need to take into consideration.

[Speck Tater]

8. No group is immune to having bad apples.

And not everyone who calls themselves a Buddhist actually lives by the precepts.

And oddly enough, I read somewhere that over 25% of people who attend Buddhist services regularly don't even call themselves Buddhists.

So a self-assigned label doesn't really mean very much.

(Disclaimer: Atheist-Yoga-Wiccan-Semi-Buddhist-Hindu non-believer here.)

[imdjh]

11. "25% of people who attend Buddhist services regularly don't even call themselves Buddhists"

So it's kind of like being an Episcopalian? :)

[sam sarrha]

12. your accusations are rash and unsubstantiated if you dont name the group..

i know of "Buddhist" group that are not Buddhists at all, others that have a terrible reputation using Buddhism to scam.. one of the Best groups contracts out work to private contractors who are not routinely over sited.

if you cant name the group, i expect an apology. ot it's just a scam using a straw man example..

what are they fund raising for..?

[grasswire]

13. not fund raising for anything

They (a husband and wife) are founders of a very large Buddhist community. He is spiritual adviser and counselor to many, many people. They own (jointly and separately) multiple rental properties that are in foreclosure; they haven't paid the mortgages on these properties for many months. Families are being ejected from these homes even prior to the day of auction by the lenders, so there is no chance for renters to negotiate with lenders to stay in the homes. In my own particular family's case, the mortgage hasn't been paid since September. In another renter's case, he was rented the property after the house was already in default -- his $1500 deposit is gone and he is ejected from the home. There were many assurances that the homes would not be lost, that the arrearages would be "cured" and the renters would remain in the homes for as long as they wished. This was deceptive, at best. If there were a track record of kept promises, a person might be sympathetic to them. But they have a record of broken promises to tenants. One property was without heat in half of the house for nearly two years, ignoring requests for repair.

That is what's happening.

[sam sarrha]

16. who.. what.. do you know if they have any other recourse in foreclosure.. we have to foreclose

because the city devalued our home due to falling prices.. we cant refinance because we cant get a loan for more than the property value.. we lost $20,000 in value.. so we have to walk away from it.. the lenders dont make deals, they do the paper work, they dont even own the house anymore, they cant make any arrangements concerning the house, they are now contracted to do the paper work.

there are even apartment buildings going into foreclosure evicting all the renters
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laland/2009/03/la-apartment-bu.html

your situation is typical and common.. i still need to know what sect of Buddhism, as i said there are several bogus groups,

i got some bad dental work done by a Christian dentist,, Assembly of god.. so should i blame all christians for being cheats.

the situation is bad and i sympathize, but name calling with such a broad brush without the info is irresponsible. the property could have been under the care of an agency, there are a lot of variables..

[grasswire]

18. the county records are pretty clear

the properties are not under the care of an agency. Look. I know who the landlady is -- we deal with her directly, and with her husband as well. She is who she is, the situation is what it is. They own rental properties. They did not pay the mortgage on these properties for many months despite taking rent from faithful tenants and even raising the rents. The properties are in foreclosure and will be sold by the lenders. Families are being displaced. Bitter conditions exist and the owners are acting in cold ways that cause a great deal of distress to many people.

[sam sarrha]

23. i'm just saying you cant blame all buddhist's and you cant even mention Buddhism if you dont state

their affiliation..

for instance SGI isn't Buddhism, its a Narcissistic personality Cult.. New Kadampa Tradition is criticized about being Buddhist because they Warship a Supra Natural psychotic Demon.. supra natural means the demon was once a person, now a wrathful Deity.. this isn't Buddhism it is Tribal superstition. technically Zen isn't a Buddhist Group,.. i have had some bad experiences with some of them.

Buddhism is 2600 yr's old, there are 3 groups, many sects, many of those have lost the precepts over the Melina due to isolation and close association with tribal superstition.

technically if a persons actions cause others suffering they ate not Buddhists they cant be Buddhists, they may wear the trappings, go thru the motions, but they cant be Buddhists. if they are associated with a particular group, report them to the leadership of that group.

there can be Vast differences between Buddhist groups, the Chinese Pure Land even has a different Buddha, Amataba. you will find different cultural influences between Indonesian, chinese, formosan, tibetan, indian, sir lankan, japanese, burmese

the Four Noble Truths are Buddhism, this defines what Buddhism is, nothing else, all else is how to achieve this. it is based on training the mind to see things as they are, meditation is the primary tool while living a life that causes no more bad karma. and cultivates good karma.

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html
1/To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in

2/The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardour, pursuit of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging

3/The cessation of suffering can be attained through nirodha. Nirodha means the unmaking of sensual craving and conceptual attachment. The third noble truth expresses the idea that suffering can be ended by attaining dispassion. Nirodha extinguishes all forms of clinging and attachment. This means that suffering can be overcome through human activity, simply by removing the cause of suffering. Attaining and perfecting dispassion is a process of many levels that ultimately results in the state of Nirvana. Nirvana means freedom from all worries, troubles, complexes, fabrications and ideas

4/There is a path to the end of suffering - a gradual path of self-improvement, which is described more detailed in the Eightfold Path. It is the middle way between the two extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification (asceticism); and it leads to the end of the cycle of rebirth. The latter quality discerns it from other paths which are merely "wandering on the wheel of becoming", because these do not have a final object. The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning

that is all Buddhism is.. a logical statement,
1/suffering is a given
2/suffering has a cause,
3/if it has a cause it has a cure
4/the cure is living a good life while training the mind to overcome attachment/grasping/aversion/negative emotions

people cant be Buddhists and do what you said they did, if they profess to be Buddhists they need to be reported, look up their group on

HERE IS A LIST OF bUDDHIST CULTS
http://www.buddhismaustralia.org/cults.htm

[grasswire]

26. I'll PM you the link to the man's web site.

check it out and tell me what you think about the authenticity of his teachings and his meditation center.

[ZombieHorde]

27. Who has the authority to determine a true Buddhist group from a false Buddhist group? nt

[conscious evolution]

29. The Falun Gong smear at that site

reads like it was written by the CCP.

[Odin2005]

15. I practice buddist-style meditation but as an I don't accept the theology...

as I don't believe in Karma and any life after death.

The two individuals sound like ordinary assholes.

[Dorian Gray]

21. There are people

of all stripes who act in such a fraudulent manner. Don't know if their buddhism is part of their scam or not, but, regardless, sometimes people suck.

[Warpy]

22. Watch your food stamps around Asian holy men

is the best advice I can give you.

Here in the west, we expect our holy men to be saints and hold them to high behavior standards. In Asia, they don't, because they recognize the value of negative teaching as well as positive, the practical lessons in detachment from things like money and privilege.

Then again, they could be total frauds. You can never be sure with some of those guys.

You can't buy your way into enlightenment. Once you get that, you can become a little more resistant to the blandishments of all sorts of religious scams.

[cecilfirefox]

28. As a practicing Wiccan and a Buddhist...

I strongly advise you to look into any sort of legal action against them that you can. I have never understood how it is considered legal for people selling homes or renting them to take mortgage/rent money and not pay where its suppose to go. Isn't there some sort of legal contract binding them to that??

Also, as a person in two religious minorities- we all have nutters. Try not to associate the whole group with them.

And let me also state that a person above referred to SGI Buddhism as a cult. Nichiren Buddhism is NOT a cult. I admit, I'd like a little more emphasis on the sutras and not just the chanting, but it is NOT a cult NOT in a long shot.