Before you do anything, thank God.

[varkam]

A friend of mine just got this big EPA grant that she's been working her tail off for. She was very happy, and when she relayed the news to her partner, the reply that she got was "Before you do anything, thank God."

Now I know that my views on God and religion are, at best, confused. I'm not really an atheist, and I'm not really a theist. I'm not an "agnostic" in the sense that I don't affirmatively believe in some universal power (although I am a strict agnostic in the sense that I think that, if there is a God, it is impossible to "know" whether or not such a being exists)...but I guess on hearing that bit of news I at least know what I don't believe in. That kind of God.

I know many people believe in an intensely personal diety; the kind that micro-manages your day and keeps tabs on you every moment. The kind that rewards and punishes you as he/she/it sees fit, such as some sort of ethereal B.F. Skinner with you as the pigeon in the Skinner box (though with less clear purposes and intentions than an ethereal B.F. Skinner probably would have).

I guess what bugs me about it though is that, to me, it seems so terribly self-important. To think that God rewards you and slights others on the basis of...well...something I suppose, just strikes me as the very height of hubris. I get the same sort of reaction when football players thank God for helping them win the big game - is the opposing team in their locker room committing all sorts of unholy blasphemy? Are they throwing figs at God for making them miss the field goal?

Doesn't it get in the way of developing a sense of empathy? Doesn't reveling in the fact that you are the Chosen One make you kind of forget the forgotten many?

All of this is not to say that we shouldn't strive for humility and gratefulness when good things do come our way - but humility and gratefulness of this flavor strike me as neither. It strikes me as a pride and a narcissism trying to pass for something virtuous...

but that's just my .02.

[Mythsaje]

1. What gets me is the survivors of disasters who say

"God saved me."

Oh, yeah? And what did he have to say to the other ten he DIDN'T save? Screw you?

Now THAT'S hubris.

And I consider me an agnostic. I don't know and I'm not sure I care. God doesn't matter. God can take of itself. People matter.

[IntravenousDemilo]

2. Thank god I'm an atheist.

People who do good things hoping for some heavenly reward or out of fear of some hellish punishment, are doing them for the wrong reason, which makes them not necessarily good people. Only those who perform good works out of the goodness of their heart and a sense of duty, irrespective of reward and punishment, deserve any respect.

[AndyA]

6. DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

I see so-called "Christians" all the time doing things that aren't Christian. They have the sign of the fish on the back of their vehicle, which is speeding, running red lights, cutting people off, and generally putting other driver's at risk because of their behavior. Is this being Christian?

The Bible says to not judge others, but treat them as you'd want to be treated. Yet many "Christians" don't hesitate to condemn gays and vote to take away the same rights they themselves enjoy. Is this a Christian value? Would Jesus do such a thing?

Many Christians have been divorced, and remarried. They don't want some to have the right to marry, because they must protect the sanctity of marriage. Yet they've defiled marriage by getting a divorce.

For all the good Christians do, there are as many out there tarnishing the brand. And this makes it less palatable to others, in my opinion.

The basis for Christianity lies in The Bible, and because so many "Christians" pick and choose what to believe, they really do compromise Christianity. You can't say you're a Christian while condemning another person, or while you lie to cover up your crimes protect yourself in a contractual situation, or whatever.

Christians are their own worst enemy, it would seem.

[VWolf]

8. FWIW

I was raised a Catholic, but I did learn about altruism in Sunday school. This was many years ago, however, and I'm pretty sure the heaven/hell angle is emphasized a lot more now.

[IntravenousDemilo]

16. I was raised by atheists who in turn had been raised by atheists.

I suppose wherever you learn about altruism isn't that important as long as you learn about altruism (and apply it). My mom sent me to Sunday school and wanted me to report back to her "what those bastards are up to." She expected me to become familiar with the Bible, too, both Testaments. Then we'd take turns arguing about the Bible from opposing viewpoints, switching back and forth.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

4. Suppose that God, in some mysterious way, IS the essence of love.

By your actions, you either join yourself with God -- with love -- or distance yourself .

It's not that God is micromanaging your days, or judging you, but that you, in every action you take, are moving closer or farther away from God. If God is love, then turning away from God is turning away from love.

Does this view of God get in the way of developing empathy?

[KGodel]

5. Suppose that trains RUN on chocolate bars

It's not that chocolate bars would determine where the trains will go but just suggest to them where they might like to go.

That would be nice.

[Jim__]

7. People who believe in a personal god, don't see god "as some sort of ethereal B.F. Skinner".

Characterizing their belief in that way just shows a misunderstanding of their belief.

I would take such advice from my partner as an attempt at humor because my partner knows I don't believe. But, how your friend will/should react to the advice depends both on what she believes and what her partner thinks she believes. If they both believe in such a god, then the advice is probably both acceptable and encouraging.

Religious people that I know wouldn't take such advice as meaning god made a personal choice of them over others.

[ZombieHorde]

9. How do people who believe in a personal god see their god? nt

[Jim__]

11. Different people I've talked to have different conceptions.

But, I've never spoken to anyone who saw their god "as some sort of ethereal B.F. Skinner".

[varkam]

15. You've never spoken to someone that believes God is with them every moment of every day?

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varkam]

14. I didn't mean to imply that everyone who does believe in a personal god, believes...

in the kind that I characterized in my OP. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer. I merely was meaning to examine one type of such a belief. I understand that there are a multitude of beliefs when it comes to God, and it wasn't my purpose to try to encapsulate them all.

I would take such advice from my partner as an attempt at humor because my partner knows I don't believe. But, how your friend will/should react to the advice depends both on what she believes and what her partner thinks she believes. If they both believe in such a god, then the advice is probably both acceptable and encouraging.

That may be well and good for you, but in the context of this relationship it was most certainly not an attempt at humor - but there is no way that you could have known that.

I also wasn't asking for advice about how I should tell my friend that they should react...but thanks.

[Why Syzygy]

10. Interesting.

I can conceive a couple of explanations for your first OP example.

In remembrance.
In relationship.

Those atheists who refer to God as big sky daddy, or what not, have a metaphor, which when taken to a certain level of abstraction, is descriptive. Believers for the most part, I would guess, have a desire for a personal relationship. If God is Spirit, breath, he is literally always with us. Some believers strive for a melding with God/Spirit. To become one, ergo the wedding symbolism. Any relationship requires that we think of the other, acknowledge their existence.

I don't understand the sports people so much. All I know is we are supposed to pray for everyone, not just ourselves.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DU GrovelBot]

12. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our second quarter 2009 fund drive.
Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
New prizes daily!



No purchase or donation necessary. Void where prohibited. Click here for more information.