The Mormons Baptized Obama’s Dead Mother

[The Sushi Bandit]

Source: AMERICAblog, Wonkette, and Current TV

From AMERICAblog: “A reader contacted me last week, saying that last year, in the heat of the presidential campaign, the Mormons had posthumously baptized Barack Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham.”

alot more at link..

Read more: http://current.com/items/90025676_mormons-baptized-obama-s-dead-mother-into-church.htm

[JI7]

1. why ?

[Critters2]

6. To get her into heaven, of course. nt

[elocs]

7. Ummm, it's part of their religion.

:shrug:

[JI7]

16. do they do it for everyone that died ?

[Kali]

24. everyone they can find

[elocs]

27. My guess is that they have done it for millions of people over the centuries.

I am an 11th generation American from New York state and my first ancestor came here in 1628. I even know the ship they came on thanks to a Mormon ancestor who was probably one of the very earliest of Mormons.

On a side note, when I was a kid I used to tweak my mother about eating food that was kosher with, "how do you like eating food that was blessed by a rabbi, someone who is not a Christian?" It was a great way to get a rise out of her, but so what? Who cares if a rabbi blessed it because it doesn't hurt me and I could care less if any of my dead ancestors, including my father, are baptized by the Mormons. It doesn't hurt me because I don't subscribe to their religion. Although there are people in life, even here at DU, who are looking for any and every reason to be pissed off about something. It makes them happy.

[JI7]

32. yeah, i don't have a problem with it really if that's the case

i'm an atheist and have a lot of criticisms of religion but i don't really find this offensive the way i do their campaigning against gay rights and other things.

[ejpoeta]

17. but was it HER religion!!!

I have some seriously nutbag relatives born again.... and when my dad was in the hospital knowing he was going to die, and having only a few lucid moments here and there, my uncle came down from vermont. we worried that he was going to inflict his religious beliefs on my dad, who is catholic.... was catholic.... and while i would put up with listening to his bs myself, i and my siblings were very protective of my dad and would not have tolerated any trying to 'save' dad bullshit.

before uncle ed came down, my other uncle came in and blabbed about how uncle ed wanted to be here and would want to make sure dad accepted jesus christ blah blah blah. i could feel my blood pressure about to explode. but there was a priest there who had come to do a sort of last rites prayer for dad. and he assured my uncle that dad had done all of that stuff thereby stopping anything before it started. i was so grateful to that priest. because it could have gotten ugly, and I did not want any more grief than i already had. i am not catholic. yet i endured that catholic prayer FOR MY DAD. i did not try to persuade him that it was a lie or anything else. it's called RESPECT!! and i think this bs by the mormon church is highly disrespectful also. worry about your damned selves and quit worrying about others!!

[JI7]

33. but they aren't forcing her or Obama family to do anything

it's different from what you describe happened with your dad and uncles.

[ejpoeta]

34. how can you convert a dead person? i don't get it. it is still disrespectful.

[JI7]

36. maybe it's because i'm an atheist

i think everything they do is stupid. but it means nothing to me really. i have a bigger problem with them doing things like trying to ban same sex marriage and abortion rights etc.

[ejpoeta]

41. i personally think these folks should concentrate on themselves instead of

worrying about others. i agree that they need to quit trying to push their crap on everyone else. at least the amish don't try to do that.... they just live their lives and let the rest of us worry about our own. I think that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.... or he without sin cast the first stone.... there are a lot of those kinds of sayings out there. maybe these folks and all the born agains and all the lunatic wingers need to quit worrying about everyone else and fix themselves!

[MUAD_DIB]

49. It's just fucked-up Mormon voodoo.

[lsewpershad]

37. WHY?

Holy shit. My dad did the same thing while I was still alive. One day while "having a few," with his frinds, they were rileing him about being a hindu and allowing his 13 year old going to sunday school and watching him become a Christian.
My dad poured into his glass, water, called me in the living room, poured some the water in his palm, poured it on my head and said " by this sacred act I now baptise you and make you into a goat." Ever since then this goat has become much wiser.

[Book Lover]

2. Does anyone know exactly what this "baptizing" entails?

I mean, they ain't dunking people in water; so what do they do exactly? Write something down in their files? Chant dirges in air heavy with incense? What?

[Critters2]

4. They dunk someone sort of pretending to be the dead person

in water. In their temples. It's called baptism by proxy. Someone acts as the proxy for the dead person.

It's idiocy, but irritating idiocy.

[Kali]

26. no more idiotic than any other religious ritual

[Donnachaidh]

5. it's *baptism by proxy*

They have a *stand in* and they baptize that person in the name of the dead person. It's done by Mormons so they can *seal* themselves with their ancestors. It's done all the time. I know of one group who sued to have it undone on some holocaust victims.

It's a sneaky way to make everyone in their genetic line Mormons. It's why the Mormons have been copying records around the world. They weren't doing it to help out genealogists.

[Demeter]

8. As I Understand It

A Mormon stands in for the deceased, undergoes baptism into MORMONISM in the deceased's name, and then the deceased has the option of joining the Latter Day Saints. Meaning there is Free Will, or the illusion of it, after death.

It is "superstitious nonsense", to coin a phrase, on the part of gullible sheep. It has no meaning otherwise.

If the Mormon Church records this, their record keeping seems to be shoddy--there are reports that some deceased have been repeatedly "baptised".

[Donnachaidh]

10. it's difficult to find out -- the Mormons are VERY secretive about it.

That's why they *seal* records, quite literally, from non-Mormon researchers.

[dipsydoodle]

23. I think its the one

where you you roll up your left trouser leg and hop round in a circle while holding a pint of beer.

I could be wrong - might be the right leg.

[Book Lover]

29. The important point is

that it's that near-beer crap.

[Critters2]

3. This practice is so hugely disrespecetful.

I've been told they baptized my grandmother in proxy. I know it doesn't really mean anything, but my grandmother was a Disciple of Christ her whole life. She prepared communion for her church the day before she died, and was deeply proud that her grandfather rode and preached with Barton Stone. If she wanted to be a Mormon, she'd have made that choice herself. She didn't. Neither did Obama's mother.
This baptism by proxy crap is just another word for disrespecting the choices of others.

[Donnachaidh]

9. *If* there is such a place as heaven, and *if* they did my ancestors

They will have full blown RIOTS waiting for them. Hell, we had a relative dug up from a presbyterian cemetery by her catholic family, because they didn't want her buried there. I can only imagine the shitstorm that would happen if these folks were suddenly shuttled over to the Mormon section of heaven. It's something I'd pay to watch, though. :rofl:

[Sherman A1]

22. It is disrespectful, but also hugely meaningless

It's their version of truth, which doesn't mean much to a great number of people. I can rename a tree and call it a rock, but they still are what they are. Who really cares what some charming religious groups decides to bestow upon someone long since gone.

Their opinion (and it just is an opinion) is non sequitur.

[Critters2]

52. I know it's meaningless. But I still think people's choices should

be respected.

[elocs]

11. The bottom line is, make up your own religion

and you get to make up your own rules and rituals. Get people to follow your religion and they will follow said rules and rituals. Simple process and concept. Most religions are this way.

[PassingFair]

58. I just De-Baptised her. Made-up Church of Latter Day De-Baptisers.

$15.00 for life-time membership;
and pre-paid De-Baptism.

:hi:

[Critters2]

63. I've learned they baptized my Grandmother.

Do you have a paypal site?

[undeterred]

12. Theres a debate over infant vs adult baptism

in the mainline churches, but I never heard anyone suggest baptizing the dead.

[ejpoeta]

18. i know my kidsa aren't baptized. how can an infant decide what they believe!!

i have had people say crap, but assure them that if they believe the bible, what's the rush. don't all kids go to heaven until a certain age automatically? how can a dead person decide anything either. its ludicrous!

[Critters2]

53. In my tradition, baptism is a way of including the child fully in the community,

and reminding us that we believe God loves us whether we believe or not. So, not a matter of whether they believe, but of being welcome and loved.

[On the Road]

35. Apparently It Was Part of the Apostolic Church

1 Corinthians 15:29 (New International Version)

²⁹Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

Don't think the Mormons have exactly the right idea, but they can always hang their hat on that verse.

[sasquatch]

13. Sick fucks need to be driven from the country

[Book Lover]

20. Apropos of nothing, is that Lemmy? (nm)

[sasquatch]

21. Yes

:)

[Book Lover]

30. Dude

:thumbsup:

[Politicub]

14. Wow - that's kind of creepy and presumptuous

Most religions are quite bizarre, but it seems like the Mormons are on a mission to offend as many people as possible.

[jody]

15. Who complained when Obama became a member of the Crow Nation? n/t

[Book Lover]

38. When an adult does something of their own free will, who has cause to do so? (nm)

[jody]

39. So, let Obama demand the Mormons de-baptize his mother. n/t

[Book Lover]

44. If you don't wish to complain, don't join the chorus (nm)

[jody]

46. Complain about what? It's Obama's personal problem whether to demand his mother be de-baptized. n/t

[tomm2thumbs]

19. they sure have a lot of time on their hands - going after Prop 8, baptizing the dead -

you'd think they'd be spending a little more time on helping the living and making life a bit easier for those who are on earth in the here-and-now.

[Myrina]

28. Seriously!

:thumbsup: You said it, man!!

[old mark]

25. They have large computers and records, probably have everyone in the US's

family going back several generations posthumously inducted into the Mormon religion. They are doing this because they believe every other religion besides theirs is WRONG, and they will insure that all these dead folks get to the Mormons' concept of the afterlife by baptizing them by proxy and claiming them as Mormons. They have been doing this for many years now, have huge files and records of families and geneology, know more about most peoples family tree than the families do.
Mormons believe that god was once human, and that all humans have the potential to become gods in their own right.
"Humans are god embryos".

Religion is wonderful.

mark

[baldguy]

31. Someone should start registering dead Mormons as avowed atheists.

Unfortunately, atheists aren't that organized.

[TimesSquareCowboy]

40. I've been making Mormons into Wiccans posthumously for years now.

Pretty soon they'll all be in hell.

[santamargarita]

42. Well...did she put anything in the collection plate?

That's all they really care about!

[LeftyMom]

50. They'll probably send a bill for a lifetime of tithing with interest.

:rofl:

[targetpractice]

43. The still baptize Holocaust victims, despite a 1995 promise...

In a 1995 agreement, Mormons agreed to limit their posthumous baptism practice of Jews — of all Jews, not just Holocaust victims — to only direct ancestors of Mormons.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/29/us/mormons-to-end-holocaust-victim-baptism.html

The posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, despite denials by the Mormon leadership.Thousands of Holocaust victims have been posthumously baptized since 1995. See the PDF report below...

http://www.avotaynu.com/mormons/RadkeyReportDetail.pdf

[ohio2007]

45. What did Obam's grand mother in Africa have to say about this?

She plans on "doing the Hajj" in Mekka this year I read in an article two weeks ago.

[elleng]

47. This is the site they use.

They did the same to my Mother, who passed away recently. We are Jewish, and are angry about this. Apparently they have obtained her soc sec #.

http://familkysearch.org/

[moroni]

54. This is the link you can use to search for ancestors

FamilySearch

... and this is the link the Church provides for those seeking answers to the question of why baptisms for the dead are performed. As to the "alleged" baptism by proxy for Sister Dunham, I cannot know how that was initiated. Normally ancestors are added to a list that are to be baptized. This is normally done by a member or members of the living family or a relative of the deceased. It is possible that a name could be added by a non-member by requesting it through a local ward or branch (congregation). Social security numbers are not used in heaven or on earth so there is no need for that bit of data. The majority of members are not citizens of the United States so utilizing that particular means of identification is not necessary. I assume that Heavenly Father knows us fine with out it.

Baptisms for the Dead

There are many "references" that can provide insight into this ordinance.
1 Corinthians 15:29
Malachi 4:5-6
John 5:25
1 Peter 4:6
3 Nephi 25:5-6
D&C 124 : 93
D&C 128 : 17-18

Its no secret, obviously. To those without faith it may seem a waste of time and energy. This ordinance can only be performed in one of the Church's temples. It is not a trite undertaking. The Church makes a point of getting this "work" done in accordance with a variety of scriptures and guidelines. It should be noted that those that have passed beyond the veil and are baptized by proxy are not added to the membership roll of the Church.

Baptism is for the redemption of sin.

Baptism

You can check out the additional information section to read up on some of the whys and why nots.

Blessings to all,
Moroni

[elleng]

55. Thank you for this information. My daughter informed me today

that my mother, who is Jewish and passed on last year, HAS BEEN so baptized. I don't know how my daughter learned this, but I do know that no one requested this.

[moroni]

64. Minor Update

Church investigating baptism

Another news report

... and still another

There are other links available should you chose to look. This is against Church policy, assuming
a non-relative actually submitted her name.

Blessings!
Moroni

[bc3000]

48. I'm an atheist but I hope they do it for me

Never hurts to have your bases covered.

And the next time they come to my door I can tell them I'm busy and ask them to come back when I'm dead.

[ZombieHorde]

51. "I'm busy and ask them to come back when I'm dead"

Ha!

[moggie]

60. You think they wouldn't do that?

I heard they go door-to-door in the afterlife too. You don't get any peace, even after you're dead!

[struggle4progress]

56. I don't see any point to such ceremonies. But, really, so what? The Mormons do no one any material

damage through such ceremonies: the most that can be said is that the ceremony might exhibit something like a certain ethnocentrism

[No Elephants]

57. Well, I was going to post that you can ask to opt out of the proxy baptism, but I just

read a post that says they went back on that. I know several a religious group--okay, cult-- that rationalizes lying whenever deemed necessary to protect themselves, but I am always shocked when any religious group does that. Sure, we've all lied, but when a religion institutionalizes lying....I was raised with such a respect for truth and such a respect for faith, clergy, etc. I guess I need to grow up.

[Strong Atheist]

59. :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=52871#53047

[Evoman]

61. No matter how much I try, I just can't give a shit.

Mormons piss me off when they are trying to get rid of gay marriage, or knocking at my door. I don't give a shit when they throw some water on some person who is supposed to be pretending to be another person who is dead.

[Dorian Gray]

62. I'm not Mormon

nor do I believe in their faith. I can understand why people would find this a violation, but it doesn't really bother me. I don't hold faith in their baptism, so it means nothing to me. Much like I don't particularly care what is done with my body when I am dead (cremation, burial, or whatever else will give my loved ones the most comfort), nor do I really care what someone else does regarding my spiritual self. All that matters in the end is what I've done or the faith I hold/don't hold.

But, I realize, that's my view and many other people would find this an extreme violation.

[laconicsax]

65. Just to say, if the Mormons are right, they're doing these people a big favor.