Born Againism is a sham for money

[AVID]

Come to my church
Dunk you head
Come every Sunday with your checkbook
Would you come again on Saturday, Family night
Oh . . . and send your kids on Wednesday night youth group
And don't forget early mornign prayer on Monday morning.

We need new lights, we need a new sound system, we have to keep up with the jones on the next corner.

Everywhere I turn now, there is a new megaplex, RW compound growing!!!

[SHRED]

1. Born Again...

rapture rightists are anti-environment and pro-war.

What does that tell ya?

[AVID]

2. their compounds look more and more like the Koresh place in WACO

[ArkDem]

3. like a pile of cinders?

[AVID]

7. no , before that

[CWebster]

4. always has been.

Elmer Gantry

[CWebster]

6. The Night of the Hunter

"One of the most frightening movies ever made" (Pauline Kael), this stunning one-off masterpiece was the only film directed by actor Charles Laughton, and features Robert Mitchum in a career performance hailed as "one of the most compelling studies of evil in American cinema" (David Thomson). Superbly scripted by James Agee, and startling shot by Stanley Cortez (The Magnificent Ambersons), the film is set in a strangely stylized Depression-era South, and unfolds like some delirium-dream confluence of Mother Goose and the Book of Revelations, Mark Twain and German expressionism. The menacing Mitchum is preacher Harry Powell, a Bible-quoting, hymn-humming sexual psychopath given to murdering women. "Love" and "Hate" tattooed across his knuckles, dollar signs in his eyes, he sets out to woo and win a young widow (Shelley Winters) he believes harbours a stash of stolen loot...

http://www.cinematheque.bc.ca/archives/mitchum.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Fantastic movie, and one of

the creepiest performances in film history.

Note: Anyone who sees this movie has to realize that it's not strictly realistic, but stylized. I don't mean that the story couldn't have happened--it could have. But the way it's told is almost like a series of paintings. There are some unforgettable shots: the car at the bottom of the river, Lillian Gish sitting at the window with a rifle across her lap, the young widow's bedroom, all angles as in a German Expressionist film.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. Wouldn't it be nice if these people would actually read their book

one day and realize "Oh! That's what it's talking about" and overnight all these megaplex 'churches' were converted into homeless shelters and artist colonies.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

[Warpy]

8. I have buds who are preachers' kids

some are believers, some are not. What they all agree on is what happens when groups of preachers within any denomination get together. It becomes a strategizing session on how to attract congregants from rival denominations in order to increase donations.

It's a BUSINESS, folks, whether or not you believe.

Those RW megachurches have become full-out showbiz centers, with constumes, plays, music, lighting, super surround sound, and all the other trappings of any club or concert venue. That's why they're growing. The message is completely lost in the trappings.

The small, mainstream churches can get their own back if they start to preach the "pure" message contained in Mark and Matthew. They're going to have to do that unless they want to shut down. They've dropped the ball for decades.

[AVID]

10. Its all about the show now

I agree . bands, concerts, all to woooo the new bucks

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Actually, in mainstream denominations, winning new members from

other churches is considered "sheep stealing" and is frowned upon. Efforts at attracting members are supposed to be directed at people who have no current church affiliation.

Episcopalians are not supposed to be accepted as members of a new parish until they get a letter of transfer from their old parish. My own official reception as a new member at my current church was held up for six months because my previous church was going through some traumatic personnel changes and clerical matters were in chaos.

[Sir Jeffrey]

9. For an excellent history of this "sham"...

check out "Pray TV: Televangelism in America" by Steve Bruce. Aside from the inside look at televangelism, it also offers an excellent historical overview of how religiosity took hold in America. This book appears to be rather expensive to buy, but my university had a copy on hand. It was pretty neat to read about the different methods used in the early years of the US by the various sects. If you can find a copy, I'd recommend it. If you haven't already read it of course :)

[Brian_Expat]

11. RELIGION is a sham for money

Think about it -- how many enduring religious organisations are poor?

Even in the poorest countries of the world, the dominant religious orders and their hierarchy are quite well off.

[Tux]

19. Organized religion

Ever notice how liberals, which tend to be spiritual, are labeled as godless? Maybe they depend on the religious for money and hate the spiritual folks since they don't need organized religion.

[Davey Crockett]

12. And what does

this have to do with democrat politics? Are you saying that democrats can't be Christians?

[AVID]

13. not much with democrat politics

but everything to do with republican, RW, born-again voting block that thniks gwb is talking to jesus every night and will not think about each issue objectively.
It has become a sin to question gwb - that has everything to do with democracy

[Bill McBlueState]

14. Yes!

I bet that's exactly what he's saying. Since Christianity seems to be mostly about lights, sound systems, and Powerpoint presentations these days, at least to most Americans, a slam on megachurches must be equivalent to a slam on Jesus Christ himself.

It's Democratic, by the way.

ETA if needed... :sarcasm:

[Davey Crockett]

15. No, it's Democrat. It can be a noun and

an adjective.

[supernova]

18. "Democratic" is the preferred adj.

:hi: Welcome to DU, Davey Crockett.

[Igel]

28. And, completely off topic, the usual

term I've heard for making a noun into an adjective with no suffix in English is "conversion."

Somehow it seems appropriate in this forum.

[alfredo]

16. Pay on debit so we can continue emptying your bank account

after your death.

[hecate77]

20. self deleted,

Oops posted in wrong part of thread

[CBHagman]

17. They never hit me up for money.

Do you actually know any people who profess a belief in being born again? I've attended two different Baptist churches, one in the Midwest and one in the South, as well as a nondenominational church that basically preached the idea of being born again and being a disciple, and I don't recall any appeals for money.

I happen to be a Roman Catholic, and I can tell you that the very first place I heard the passage in the Gospels about being born again WAS at a Roman Catholic church in Ohio.

There are churches that focus to excess on glitz, money, power, and the like, and there are too many who mistake Bush's gospel of capitalism and plutocracy for the real Gospel. But don't go around impugning the faith of people around the world. Talk to people. Find out what they really believe.

Useful links, and remember that some progressives (like Jim Wallis) follow this particular faith.

http://encyclopedia.lockergnome.com/s/b/Born_again

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0401&article=040110

[hecate77]

21. I have to agree. The good ones are quiet, so we only see the nasty ones

There are far more good, decent, loving Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and Hindus, and all the rest) than there are nasty ones. The nasty ones are the ones who get all the press, however, so we end up thinking that is all there is. I personally do not belong to any form of Christian religion, but I have respect for the beliefs of those who do, in so far as those beliefs do not require them to force themselves into my life. I have respect for those who do not believe in any form of God, Goddess, or whatever, in so far as those beliefs do not impinge on my right to believe as I choose.

Goodness is goodness. Love is love. End of story. People of all faiths (or lack thereof) are capable of compassion and caring. Just as a person of any faith (or lack thereof) can be a complete Fascist asshole.

Let's keep our focus on who is a Fascist, and not what religion they are. Of course, it just so happens that most of the extreme Fascists in this country at this time also identify as born-again Christians, so those born-again Christians who are not Fascists have a lot of work to do to clean up their name, to reclaim it from the hypocrites and evil-doers who have commandeered it.

I know a number of my Christian friends are actively trying to do so, but it is a hard climb, given that they are more interested in doing good works than in worrying about what others think of them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Yes, we are asked to contribute, but never forced

It works sort of like DU--if you believe in the mission of the organization, contribute what you feel it's worth, based on what you feel you can spare.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. And Jesus said

that his path wasn't the popular way, the way of the masses, but the narrow way, the way of those willing to make difficult choices about giving up material possessions, worrying not about what will happen but depending upon God.

Don't let the rise of these so-called 'megachurches' upset you. Let them go in peace. They are there for those that need to learn the lesson that there is no buying spirituality or salvation. Might (or numbers) doesn't make right, nor does might always win. David slew Goliath, Mohammed's followers won Mecca and made the Kabbah a place of Unity, Ghandi's non-violent revolution freed a continent.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. BTW, the right wing complexes are springing up so fast that

I have to wonder if they're being funded under the table by one of those foundations owned by cranky reactionary millionaires.

"Normal" churches simply don't grow that fast.

[Az]

27. Think that and you will lose

Think about it for a minute. Even if the first person starting such a biz is a scam artist they are not going to get anywhere if they don't convince some people. And then when things start to grow the people that split off will be true believers. Even if a belief starts in a scam it doesn't indicate that the followup will be malicious scammers that know they are lying.

In the skeptic debunking biz its more often the case that you run into people that believe their own sales pitch.