I'm a bit confused about Christian fundamentalism

[ailsagirl]

Or whatever you wish to call it. The extremists. If the fundies are authentic, wouldn't they follow the teachings of Jesus? I'm not saying that none of them do, but there are many who come across as absolutely FEROCIOUS-- more like out of the Old Testament. Fierce, hateful, punitive. It's disquieting, to say the least.

The things I read that are done in Jesus' name flabbergast me. That's not the Jesus I'm familiar with from my Bible readings as a child.

Just thought someone could shed some light on their way of thinking. They insist they're "Christians," but they sure don't follow the philosophy of Christianity.

[oxbow]

1. It's a political movement, not so much a religious one anymore

these aren't Pat Robertson fundamentalists concerned with individual salvation and self-betterment. They're people who want to take over the government with their own anti-american narrow culture.

I just found this great wikipedia article on them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

"Dominionism is a trend in Protestant Christian evangelicalism and fundamentalism that encourages not just active political participation in civic society but also attempts to dominate the political process....."

[Princess Turandot]

2. Even as a religious movement..

I think this quote from the Wiki article of Fundamentalism sums up why it seems contradictory to the Jesus of the gospel of Matthew:

"The doctrine of substitutionary atonement through God's grace and human faith ".

Believing absolves sins and makes you a Christian, as opposed to the notion of faith and good works practiced by mainstream faiths. That position is sort of a permanent 'get out of sin' free card, and IMO seems to leave believers free to do what they will, even if what they do appears to contradict the teachings of Christ.

Catholics do not teach the notion of a fire & brimstone hell.
If there is any afterlife, this Catholic hopes that there is a special category for a few of these people.

[ailsagirl]

7. "...the notion of faith and good works ..."

YES-- that's what Christianity is about. That's why I'm so confused. Your answers are most helpful-- thank you, everyone, for that.

[Igel]

11. Salvation through good works ultimately devolves into

legalism and point keeping. "Let's see ... I screwed my sister last night ... it was fun, but I'd better put in a few hours at the soup kitchen to make up for it ... maybe give some money to the poor pre-emptively for drinking myself into a stupor tonight." The traditional view is that all the good works are a result of believing and loving God and our fellow man; they're evidence of salvation, not payment for it.

The "get out of jail free" card of substitutionary atonement for sins lies at the heart of Xianity--Christ as the pascal lamb, the very reason given for the crucifixion being forgiveness of sins, and salvation being made possible through the acceptance of his sacrifice on our behalf. Denial of that sacrifice by Islam is what made the eastern church condemn Islam as a Xian heresy, and such denial ultimately requires the institution of specific rewards for specific acts. People may not like Paul, but he has a point: if Jesus' sacrifice isn't made for atonement, then he was an idiot that deserved to die to free up room in the gene pool, and those that follow him are the most miserable of all people, without hope.

I don't think the informed folk in the "believe and sin all you want" crowd, by and large, actually believe that if you push the point with them; some may, but most church-going Xians (or mosque going Muslims) can't actually explain why they believe what they believe. For example, I must have asked a half dozen Catholics recently what "Corpus Christi Day" was, and not one could say what it celebrated or honored.

BTW, one of the gnostic heresies we have record of was Montanism, which is purported (by the winning side) to have taught, essentially, "sin more, that grace may abound more."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Faith vs good works

was an argument in the Methodist church when I grew up, and I don't know that it was ever really resolved to anyone's satisfaction.

The problem with all of this, at least for me, is that it implies seperation between mankind and God. In travelling the mystical path, I've found the greatest joy when I have found Unity, and the greatest anguish when I let thoughts, beliefs, and old habits seperate myself from Unity.

[Tux]

12. WTF?!

I was raised Protestant and morals were looser than a slut's bra. You do something wrong, Devil made you do it so you're not at fault. If anyone calls you on it, Jesus saved you so you don't have to answer to your actions. That is what Christianity is about: doing as you please with no responsibility by claiming "salvation" from a tortured and dead man.

[ailsagirl]

8. Dominionism: I just don't think it's gonna fly

Too much opposition. I hope I'm not wrong!!

:shrug:

[toddaa]

3. Google John Nelson Darby

If you want to know the theological basis for today's fundamentalism, look no further than J.N. Darby. The only thing I can say in Darby's defense (very begrudgingly) is that he wanted nothing to do with politics.

[H2O Man]

4. They have rabies .....

and are afraid of the truth.

[caty]

5. Just as the bible has been revised

and edited, so is it's teachings by evangelists to fit what they want to accomplish.:crazy:

[ailsagirl]

9. Revising the Bible to fit their needs is absolutely outrageous!!

But I KNOW there are good, decent, honest Christians who are in no way, shape, or form associated with the heretical heathens who would have us believe they're deeply religious.

The so-called leaders of this extreme fundamentalism are not religious-- that's for sure. And those who follow their bullying stance must be brainwashed to a certain degree. They go along with what these sleazy leaders tell them to do with nary a thought of questioning authority.

I have a bumper sticker that's an American flag and underneath the flag are the words, "Think. It's patriotic."

[universalcitizen]

6. Yes, Christians are Christlike. Babylonians are confused about who they

are and what they are doing. In chapter 18 the Spirit says to come out of her, Babylon, confusion, so that you won't take a share of the plagues that she is bringing on herself by being married to the merchants of the earth rather than the Heavenly Husband. This scripture is being fulfilled now. Some are coming out, because they hear the voice of their Beloved and follow after Him.

[catbert836]

10. It's just like in the New Testament

Remember the Pharisees? The hypocrites? Those who demanded that all follow Mosaic law, but saw no problem with not following it themselves? The born-again Christians are the modern equivalent of the Pharisees.
My prediction is that if Jesus were to come back today, he would be crucified, yet again, by the very same people who professed the strogest belief in him.
I leave you with this quote from an anonymous fundie who was taken by a friend to my Catholic Church.
"Your pastor is a liberal, see, because he said that God was about love."

[Tux]

13. OK

"Your pastor is a liberal, see, because he said that God was about love."

Isn't that what Jesus said? Oh well. Nothing like old fashioned inbred hate.

[catbert836]

16. I felt like laughing when I heard that.

But in the end, I started crying because of how sad it was that some people have totally abandoned the connection between religion and morals that the ancient Hebrews started us all with.

[Tux]

17. Jews

Got screwed left and right in history. Never understood why people would hate such an intelligent, scholarly, moral people. Christians have abused the Torah endlessly in their search for hate.

[carpetbagger]

14. It's cafeteria fundamentalism.

Obey the laws of the Bible, except for the ones that have been vetoed by your church, the GOP, your family members (except when you wish to invoke righteous indignation), or a signficant number of people in your town or neighborhood.

[Zorbuddha]

18. Your reference is to Antichrist

in the true sense of the word. Perverse Christianity.