It's Wednesday morning in the U.S. right now, 2 or 3 or so hours before noon.

[saltpoint]

What better time to call for the Catholic Church to reverse its centuries-old policy and announce, by sundown today at the latest, that from this point forward it will ordain women as priests.

The alleged thorny issue of apostolic succession is addressed, in the opinion of this observer, by the inclusion of Mary Magdalen in Jesus' inner circle. I'm not seeing a case, nevermind a strong case, to ordain only men, as Mary Magdalen was as much a woman as Harriet Tubman or Clara Schuman or Annie Oakley.

March is the official month for the acknowledgment and celebration of women in history.

Your move, Pope guy.

[hedgehog]

1. Whilst I appluad your sentiments, I doubt Pope guy is a DU member.

[saltpoint]

4. I thought the same thing for some time now, but then kept

getting these odd PMs from someone who seemed unusually well-versed in the Vatican.

Plus, the guy kept mentioning his red shoes.

Hard to tell if it is really Benedict, but then again, who knows?

[ZombieHorde]

15. I am pretty sure Cosmic Debris is the Catholic Pope. nt

[cosmik debris]

16. Is that a jab at me or

A jab at the Pope? :)

[ZombieHorde]

19. Well, I like you more than I like the Pope, so I guess I was insulting you, but really,

I was just trying to guess your secret identity. Seems like I guessed wrong.

[cosmik debris]

20. I'm flattered.

Being more liked than the Nazi Pope is certainly an honor. Especially considering that there are those here who would prefer the Nazi Pope.

[Why Syzygy]

2. Someone agrees with you.

During Jesus ministry: He overthrew centuries of Jewish law and custom. He almost always treated women and men as equals. He violated numerous Old Testament regulations, which required gender inequality. He ignored ritual impurity laws by curing a woman who suffered from untreatable menstrual bleeding. He talked freely to women -- even foreign women. Jesus taught women -- a forbidden act. Of the ten or so followers of Jesus whose characters are developed in the Gospels, about half were women. The author of Luke and Acts told many pairs of parallel stories, in which one referred to a woman, the other to a man. He appeared first to women after his resurrection. "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary" receive the first apostolic commission of any human - to tell the good news of the resurrection to the disciples. More details.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sinpars3.htm

[saltpoint]

3. Yes. The New Testament is a bit uneven on the treatment of women

regarding Paul's letters -- not always exclusional but not entirely inclusional either -- but you are tracing a truer line in the tenets of Jesus' ministry.

The Jesus we are given, it seems to me, would not object to the ordination of women but might in fact respect it deeply as a natural response to what he might have considered to be The Kingdom.

Certainly the Catholic Church could do itself a favor by acknowledging the roughly-over-half of the world's population and bring to a long-overdue halt its practicing of pretending that only males can administer the sacraments to adherents.

[Why Syzygy]

8. Yes. Paul.

That's what led me to that site several days ago, searching for information about his writings.
It's a really neat site. This is what it has to say about that:

The authorship of the epistles is of particular importance when studying what the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) have to say about the role and status of women. One might assume that Ephesians, 1 Timothy, Titus and 1 Peter were not written by Paul and Peter. One of the main criteria used by the early Church to consider books for inclusion in the Bible, was whether they were written by Jesus' disciples and the apostles. Under this standard, it could be argued that those four books should not form part of the Bible. Then, the only references left in the New Testament that negatively affect feminine roles and status would be found in Paul's 1 Corinthians. If one considers that some of the 1 Corinthians anti-equality passages in may have contained later forged insertions, then one might argue that the valid Christian Scriptures promote gender equality.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm
*emphasis mine

[JerseygirlCT]

10. Some of those are just so completely in opposition

to the others letters of Paul's that it makes you feel fairly certain that's exactly what happened.

I don't think Paul was all that terribly concerned at that point with anything but the (in his mind) very imminent end of the world, and preparing for that.

[saltpoint]

11. Good observation. I found that the closer I look at Paul, the less I

feel he understood the context of Jesus' ministry.

Something between not understanding the context and (possibly) struggling to shift the context to his own purposes.

I've never been wholly reconciled to Paul's travels and distrust him as a "spiritual" reference.

I think I would more likely have been drawn to the guy who scolds the angry villagers against stoning the women in the pit to death. Whether that account is actual or apocryphal, I can't say. But I like it among the best of the great moments of the NT.

And once she's safe and out of that pit, let's ordain her.

[JerseygirlCT]

12. I think more than anything else

that was the killer for me and the RCC. I couldn't raise my kids thinking there was anything remotely ok about an all-male priesthood.

I joined the Episcopal church, and all the permanent (we had one male interim rector) have been women! I think it's been a most excellent education for my (male) children!

But honestly, I can remember being upset about that since childhood. And never, ever getting a satisfactory answer. (Because there isn't one).

Paul confuses me, too. I try not to just reflexively dislike him. There's something I just don't completely understand. Something very driven in his personality - toward one extreme and then the other. Those kind of people always make me feel a little nervous. What's Yeats' line? "... The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity"...

[Why Syzygy]

13. Paul was a converted

Pharisee. Jesus warned of the leaven of the Pharisees! Now we know why.
He must have struggled with the legal system within quite a bit. I tend to dismiss him, myself.
I warm towards the gentle.

[saltpoint]

14. It really does seem to me that you placed your young folks in the path

of women who are spiritual entities. Your kids likely grew up thinking that it was not only ok, but entirely natural and good.

Which is how it should be perceived. Good for those women at the Episcopal Church and congratulations on some excellent parenting.

The RCC has the same opportunity. It would go a long way toward helping them reclaim spiritual authority.

Paul is scolded by Jesus' circle of advocates over at least one point of contention and for all we know, others. There could also have been a question of style.

A. N. Wilson has a very good study of Paul, PAUL: THE MIND OF THE APOSTLE. It does not completely win me over to Paul's mission but it rounds a few of the edges. It's an imaginative read.

[Why Syzygy]

17. Were you around when

it was customary for women to cover their heads for Mass?

I never could go all the way with the RCC, for many reasons. But, there have been many times in my life when I preferred to attend Mass rather than Protestant services.

[saltpoint]

18. No, I wasn't around when women's heads had to be hidden. Unbelievable.

I think I hear you on Mass -- there is an eerie comfort to it and not least, it has the aesthetics prize won from the start over most of its Protestant rivals.

[Why Syzygy]

21. For me

Mass is vertical, whereas Protestant is horizontal. I know we've got to love one another. But sometimes I need a more direct focus. Ironic, that, in the RCC, considering I'm allegedly bypassing the channel.

[saltpoint]

22. That's interesting. I've never thought of it in that configuration.

I appreciate your comment on "direct focus." And don't blame you for finding the irony, either. It may even be a necessary glue.

Nice post.

[JerseygirlCT]

24. That was part of the attraction to the Episcopal church for me

Liturgy is almost identical, without a great deal of the stupidity. (Especially since I'm in a pretty progressive diocese. I likely wouldn't have jumped had I been at the mercy of Ft. Worth or Pittsburgh or San Joaquin...)

[JerseygirlCT]

23. I'm a product of 12 years of Catholic schooling

Our uniforms had beanies. For just such opportunities... besides, when they needed more bodies to fill in a funeral, they'd call the 3rd grade!

But I also remember getting a tissue bobby-pinned to your head - so there was something there. It all seems so silly!

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Yup.

But who was it that commented on the power of the person writing history?

What we've still got today is what happens when the guys write the scripture. And control the power, and have no intention of letting that go.

[JerseygirlCT]

5. Completely agree with you, but

don't hold your breath.

The hierarchy of the RCC is the He-men women-haters club. They're not about to let any of those girl cooties in.

[saltpoint]

7. Agree, and by the way, hello. Very nice to run into you

again on DU.

They are an institutionally misogynist bunch, at least most of the higher-ups, but it's time to make a few changes.

So far, I haven't heard from the Vatican on my proposal, and damn it all, it's past sundown.

Ok, I'm flexible. I'll move the deadline up to tomorrow night!

[JerseygirlCT]

9. LOL

You might have to throw a new pair of Prada shoes in to really seal the deal.

(Good to see you, too!)