"Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?

[Pale Blue Dot]

The ancient flood that some scientists think gave rise to the Noah story may not have been quite so biblical in proportion, a new study says.

Researchers generally agree that, during a warming period about 9,400 years ago, an onrush of seawater from the Mediterranean spurred a connection with the Black Sea, then a largely freshwater lake. That flood turned the lake into a rapidly rising sea.

A previous theory said the Black Sea rose up to 195 feet (60 meters), possibly burying villages and spawning the tale of Noah's flood and other inundation folklore.

But the new study—largely focused on relatively undisturbed underwater fossils—suggests a rise of no more than 30 feet (10 meters).

New Flood Evidence

Marine geologist Liviu Giosan and colleagues carbon-dated the shells of pristine mollusk fossils, which the researchers say bear no evidence of epic flooding.

Found in sediment samples taken from where the Black Sea meets the Danube River, the shells "weren't eroded, agitated, or moved," said Giosan, of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Massachusetts. "We know the mud is exactly the same age as the shells and so can determine what the sea level was about 9,400 years ago."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090206-smaller-noah-flood.html?source=rss

Not to mention that the Noah story was simply a copy of the Gilgamesh story. Once again, there is very, very little in the Bible, Old or New testament, that has any contemporary verification.

[islandmkl]

1. yeah...well, how do expain the fact that Noah put NO UNICORNS on the ark...

and, therefore, we have no unicorns on Earth today??

huh...huh...explain that one to me...and no fair calling sarah palin for help....

[LittleOne]

2. He tried but they wouldn't get on the damn boat

A long time ago, when the Earth was green
There was more kinds of animals than you've ever seen
They'd run around free while the Earth was being born
And the loveliest of all was the unicorn

There was green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
The loveliest of all was the unicorn

The Lord seen some sinning and it gave Him pain
And He says, "Stand back, I'm going to make it rain"
He says, "Hey Noah, I'll tell you what to do
Build me a floating zoo,
and take some of those...

Green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
Don't you forget My unicorns

Old Noah was there to answer the call
He finished up making the ark just as the rain started to fall
He marched the animals two by two
And he called out as they came through
Hey Lord,

I've got green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but Lord, I'm so forlorn
I just can't find no unicorns"

And Noah looked out through the driving rain
Them unicorns were hiding, playing silly games
Kicking and splashing while the rain was falling
Oh, them silly unicorns

There was green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Noah cried, "Close the door because the rain is falling
And we just can't wait for no unicorns"

The ark started moving, it drifted with the tide
The unicorns looked up from the rocks and they cried
And the waters came down and sort of floated them away
That's why you never see unicorns to this very day

You'll see green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
You're never gonna see no unicorns


Now you might think this is the ending to the song,
But I'll have to tell you friends that in fact you're wrong
You see, Unicorns are magical, so when the rain started pouring,
They grew themselves some wings and they took to soaring.

You'll see green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
But if you're looking for the unicorns, don't be forlorn,
The second star to the right and straight on until morning.

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. It's quite simple

[Nihil]

10. Classic! (n/t)

:spray:

[madrchsod]

3. even a 30 foot rise in the sea level would have been a catastrophic event

the civilizations that lived around the sea would have moved on to other fertile areas taking the tale of a "flood" with them.

[hendo]

5. and a catastrophic 30 foot rise

would count as the biblical flood myth being rooted in reality.

[hendo]

4. The great flood myth has been told across cultures and

through out history. That being the case, there is likely more truth than this to the myth.

Just a quick rundown on the different myths and where they are from.

Middle East

Sumerians - The god Enki flooded the earth for 7 days and instructed Ziusudra to build a boat. After the flood, Enki told Ziusudra to repopulate the earth

Babylonian: Epic of Gilgamesh - the god Ea told Gilgamesh to build a boat, flooded the earth and told Gilgamesh to repopulate the earth.

Judeo-Christian - God told Noah to build an arch, flooded the world, and told Noah to repopulate the earth.
Muslim - Allah sent the flood and told noah to build the ark (almost identical to the Judeo-Christian myth)

China

The Chinese Shujing refers to flood waters that "reach the Heavens". Emperor Da Yu saved the world from the flood, and went on to found the the first Chinese dynasty.

The Chinese book Chanhaijing also recounts a great flood that lasted over 10 years, and had flood waters that overflowed to heaven.
It is also believed that the great flood in China was created by the great dragons.

Lao

The myth of Khun Borom says that in ancient times, people were wicked and crude so a diety destroyed the wicked with a flood, sparing three tribal chiefs.

India

The Matsya Purana and the Shatapatha Brahmana both recount a great flood that destroyed all life on earth, leading Manu to buid a boat. Post flood he sowed the "seeds of life" and brought life back to the earth.

Andaman Islands
According to aboriginal myths, the god Puluga flooded the earth, and only four people survived, Loralola, poilola, Kalola, and Rimalola. They went on to repopulate the earth.

Indonesia

Batak myths say that the great snake Naga-Padoha shook the earth into the sea. THe god Batara-Guru saved his daughter who went on to repopulate the earth.

Australia

Aborigines say that a huge frod drank all the water in the world, leading to a drought. One day an eel made the frog laugh and all of the water on earth flooded out, filling the deepest rivers and covering the land. According to the myth, many humans and animals died in the great flood.


Greek - three great floods : Ogyges, Deucalion, and Dardanus

The Ogygian flood covered the whole world. The Ogygian flood ended one of the ages of man

The Deucalion flood is a very similar story to the story of Noah. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha build a big chest to survive a flood that lasted for 9 days and 9 nights.

The flood of Dardanus occurred when Dardanus left Arcadia to colonize the land NE of the Agean Sea. His grandson went on to build the first post flood city: Troy.

Germanic

Norse mythology has two great floods. One before the world was formed. The second is an end times myth. that says Jormangandr, the great serpent would rise up and flood Midgard (the land of the mortals). Following the end of the world (Ragnarök), the earth will be reborn. Mythologists believe that the second flood in Norse mythology corresponds with the judeo christian flood.

Irish

The first inhabitants of Ireland were led by Noah's granddaughter Cessair. After arriving in Ireland all except for one person were wiped out by another flood.

Finland

The epic poem Kalevala describes a global flood.

Aztec

The Aztecs believe that 676 years into the Sun Age there was a great flood that wiped out all of mankind, turning them into fish. THe flood covered even the highest mountains. Prior to the flood, the god Titlachahuan warned Nota and Nena.

Inca

Incan mythology describes a great flood created by the god Viracocha. Two people survived and repopulated the earth.

Mayan

The Popoal Vuh describes a great flood caused by the god Huracan.

Hopi indians

Hopi mythology says that people became corrupt and warlike leading the god Sotuknang to cause a great flood that caused all land to sink into the ocean.

Caddo

Cado mythology describes four monsters that ruled over the world. In response to the monsters, a diety flooded the world.

Menominee

Menominee mythology describes a great flood coming from Lake Michigan.

Mi'kmaq

Mi'kmaq mythology says that people became evil and wicked. Because of thier wickedness, the sun god weeped triggering a great flood that only two people survived. They went on to repopulate the earth.

Polynesian

The polynesians have myths about tons of smaller floods, but nothing on the scale of the great flood.

Tahiti

There is a legend about a great flood that cause the whole island to sink below sea level. Only one couple and a few animals survived.


New Zealand

The Maori's believe that a great flood was created by Kahutia-te-rangi who called for the gods to destroy his enemies. The world was flooded nad he was the only survivor.

Another Maori legend says that the floods of heaven were released. The whole earth was overwhelmed and all human beings perished.

Hawaii

There was a great flood that wiped out the entire world. One couple survived, Nu'u and Lili-noe. The god Kāne created a rainbow following the great flood.

Marquesas Islands

The war god Tu created a great flood, killing all but 6 people on earth.

[laconicsax]

8. The frequency of flood myths around the world only speaks to the commonality of the phenomenon.

People tend to settle along coasts and rivers--areas that tend to flood. This doesn't automatically mean that the stories refer to a single event, but rather speak to a experience common to many regions.

The Sumerian story predates the Aztec story by thousands of years. What is the likelihood that they refer to the same event?

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. Case in point

The Wiyot people, who live in the area around Arcata and Eureka, California, have a story of a catastrophic flood. That can be traced back to about 600 years ago, when an earthquake broke part of a natural levy and turned what was once fertile, arable land into a tidal mud flat. There is evidence that several villages once stood in the middle of what is now Arcata Bay.

[struggle4progress]

6. Gilgamesh is an interesting ancient theological meditation, cast as heroic myth.

In the flood sub-story (which really is indisputably a version of the story of Noah), Utanapishtim is given an instruction to abandon his possessions for the sake of life itself. A very familiar boat story follows, and at the end Utanapishtim is rewarded with immortality. When Gilgamesh, who is seeking eternal life, finally finds the immortal Utanapishtim, he is surprised that Utanapishtim seems to be a somewhat feeble man

http://books.google.com/books?id=iRwMQVdZegAC&dq=gilgamesh+flood&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0
http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/gilgamesh.html
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/t/the_flood_tablet.aspx

[Jim__]

11. Was it a rise in the Mediterranean Sea that caused the rise in the Black Sea?

I'm not clear from reading the article, but it sounds like the Mediterranean Sea and the Sea of Marmara (sp) flowed into the Black Sea. Is that correct? Does that imply that the Mediterranean Sea rose by 30 feet?

[laconicsax]

12. It was the breaking of a natural dam.

End of page 1:

Researchers said these areas had been flooded when the Mediterranean and the Sea of Marmara—which lies between the
Mediterranean and the Black Sea—breached a rocky barrier across the Bosporus, the Turkish strait that links the Maramara with the Black Sea.

[Jim__]

13. Thanks. - n/t

[Occam Bandage]

14. It seems just as rooted in reality as it used to be.

That is to say, floods exist, inundation myths are almost certainly references to historical floods, and so we can guess with a fair degree of confidence that Noah's deluge was rooted in an actual flood. I don't see where "there's new evidence that this one flood was probably only 30 feet instead of 190 feet" changes the math; it just means that one particular flood was remembered as catastrophic by fewer tribes.