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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 03:42 PM
Original message
What is the deal with this religious group?
What is the deal with this religious website? Their views on homosexual marriage, justifiable homocide, and "mandatory voter information" is indeed imaginative. Does anyone know anything about this group, and why are they tax free?


Homepage: http://www.trosch.org/index.html
The following is from this page http://www.trosch.org/law/vote-info-mandatory.html

SAMPLE:

Ideas for concerns regarding Candidates Positions ON : (Suggestions for changes or improvements requested.)

Abortion?
Sodomy?
Same Sex Marriage or other form of legal union?
School Vouchers, except for those promoting morally objectional teachings, for grammar school through university subject to civil government education progress testing?
Public Officials being members of Secret Societies?
The Federal Reserve system?
Unsupported Currency Values?
Paying interest to the Federal Reserve system when no interest would be paid if the Federal or State governments printed their own currency?
Position on individuals or institutions printing value supported currency subject to penalties for abuse or mismanagement?
Impeachment of Judges that oppose Natural Law or make their own law not founded upon a moral ethic?
Impeachment of elected officials who lie?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The off-presidential year elections (2006) in the United States will cost some $2.6 billion; Much of which is raised from people who believe they are supporting the cause they believe in. The simple fact is that whether you vote for almost any Democrat or Republican you are voting for the same underlying people who have taken control of many, if not most, civil governments and religions.
The "One World Order" {Those seeking control of the world by domination through a centralized government in the hands of a select few worshippers of Satan}, is the goal of the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, Freemasons, B'nai B'rith, Skull and Bones, and associated groups. Memberships in all inter-related organizations consisting of 100 or more members are to be a matter of public record easily found on the Internet.
The following, though not secret societies as such, serve commonly as minions of the secret societies, especially the Freemasons: Rotary International, Kiwanis International, and Lions Clubs International which is the world's largest service club organization with 45,000 clubs and nearly 1.3 million members in 197 countries around the world.
Prominent Republicans, many Democrats, and a high number of world and media leaders belong to the secretive Bohemian Club whose members give allegiance to Satan under the title of Molech (the god of child sacrifice – You shall not offer any of your offspring to be immolated to Molech, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the LORD.

According the 13th Amendment to the Constitution
of the United States Lawyers may not hold public office.
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agent46 Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Aren't they the same
Aren't they the same fruitcakes who believe the U.S. Constitution only applies to the original signatories?
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I am not sure ... I really dont know much about them
Their website is truly bizzare. They are tax free or some reason. I was researching homocides in America and wound up there reading about justifiable homocide, or their view of it anyway.
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just another crackpot.
To wit, the 13th Amendment:

Transcript of 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Abolition of Slavery (1865)
AMENDMENT XIII

Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.


The _"missing 13th Amendment"_ this nut is referring to does not exist except among the rocks in his noggin.

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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Read the part about why Christians should promote homosexual marrage
Truly tortured logic. You can read it here: http://www.trosch.org/ide/gay-marriage.html

This seems to be a comprehensive list here http://www.trosch.org/in-leu-o.htm. They are in several languages, and seem to have an opinion on everything. Lots of stuff about how killing is not sinful. Truly bizarre
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Wow.
Bizarre is putting it mildly.

Excuse me while I disinfect my browser now...

:yoiks:

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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's the effort of a defrocked crackpot Catholic priest
David Trosch advocates the murder of abortion providers. He has circulated drawings of someone shooting a doctor and labeled it as justifiable homicide. He later went on Geraldo to advocate his position. He was then suspended by his bishop.

Now, when the wacko Catholic church tosses you out for being a wacko, that's a pretty good indicator that you're as wacky as can be.

Of course, look for Benny the Rat to make him a bishop at the rate he's going.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Absolutely strange .... he has quite a tretise here
I wonder how much of a following he has? I don't understand how someone can be so political, advocating violence or murder, and still maintain a tax free status. There is something horribly wrong with the system
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. His wiki page is a disaster zone.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Besides being crackpots, they have terrible reading comprehension
13th Amendment:

"Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

Ya, that totally bars lawyers from holding public office....
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. No they are talking about an Amendment that had been proposed in 1810.
Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 05:17 PM by happyslug
That proposed amendment, was proposed but never Ratified by the states, but some people said it was, but the acceptance of that ratification was destroyed when the British Burned Washington in 1814.

It is in this list of un-ratified amendments:
http://www.usconstitution.net/constamfail.html

Text of the proposed amendment (last ratified by a state in 1812):
If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.

This proposed amendment to restrict noble tiles, , the proposed "Slavery Amendment of 1861" and the "Child Labor Amendment of 1926" and the First Article of the Bill of Rights were NEVER ratified by 2/3rds of the states AND did not have a time limit (As did the "Equal Rights Amendment of 1972".

Please note the Second Article in the Bill of Rights, proposed at the same time as the First Article of the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Bill of Rights was sent to the states by Congress in 1789, it was only ratified by 2/3rds of the states in 1992. Yes, the rest of the Bill of Rights had been on the books since 1792, the second articles, restricting pay raises for congress, was NOT ratified till 1992.

Of the outstanding amendments, the First Article has no chance of being ratified, it limited the number of congressmen for a very short period of time, a period long past. The "Slavery Amendment of 1861" was an attempt to show the South that the North was willing to compromise with the South over Slavery, but when the South Seceded from the Union it died and the 13th Amendment did the exact opposite of what was proposed in 1861.

Thus the only two Amendment with any chance of being ratified by 2/3rds of the States is the Anti-nobility Amendment of 1810 and the Child Labor Amendment of 1926. The later is deemed no longer needed for the Supreme Court has ruled that Congress can ban child labor without that Amendment. The Amendment was to reverse a decision of the US Supreme Court that forbade Congress from being able to ban or regulate child labor. That case was reversed in the 1930s so the push to have it ratified died with that reversal.

The Equal Rights Amendments did have a seven year time limit upon its passage, but that was extended by Congress by three years. There is a question as to Congress's ability to restrict the time for Ratification, which if more states would ratified the ERA, as it stands now, the Supreme Court may have to decide if Congress has the Authority to restrict the time period an amendment can be ratified. This has never been tested in the Courts, the closes it has come is the ratification of the 15th Amendment, the only amendment where you have a situation where States withdrew their ratification before it was finally ratified, but other states withdrew their REJECTION of the Amendment and ratified it, before it was ratified by 2/3rds of the states. The Court (Who really wanted the power of Due Process granted in the 15th) ruled that the states could NOT withdraw a ratification, but could withdraw a rejection. Thus 2/3rds of the States ratified the 15th. Some scholars reject this, but there are a clear (and very small) minority. There rationale is that if more then 1/3 of the states REJECT ratification, it can never be ratified. That is the case with the 15th, but the court ruled otherwise (Mostly because they wanted the power of being able to declare states actions unconstitutional for violating Due Process). The 15th is part of the Constitution and has been for over 140 years and no one is proposing it be stricken. The same with the ERA, the restriction as to time can be viewed as an unconstitutional restriction as to the rights of the state to ratify the ERA and thus the time limit, set by Congress, is NOT binding. The real problem is getting enough states to ratify the ERA to get to the 2/3rds number. Until then we can NOT say the ERA was ratified, once 2/3rds of the states ratify it, we get a chance at going to court and having the court accept it or reject it. While they are people on the Court who would vote against the ERA, many of those same people will have to basically say if the ERA was NOT properly ratified, what are the exact rules? and that brings up the 15th, which ALL nine members of this Court will fight to preserve.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I still don't see what this has to do with barring lawyers from holding political office
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Lawyers occasionally use the title "Esquire"
And that would make them ineligible for citizenship under that amendment.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The people who claim that can't read either, NOR understand what "Esquire" means
Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 09:41 PM by happyslug
The basic presumption is that since lawyers, in the US, have a habit of being called "Esquires", thus the mere fact someone becomes a lawyer he or she is also becoming a "Noble" and thus under the terms of this Amendment loses his or her Citizenship. Since anyone elected to any of the three branches of government must be citizens, the mere fact one is a lawyer makes you ineligible to be elected., Thus lawyers can NEVER be elected.

That argument is a crock, for while lawyers (in the US) are often referred to as "Esquire" it is a term of respect NOT of ennobling. Now in British society a "Esquire" is a name for some low ranking nobles, that has NEVER been the case in the US AND even in England the term Esquire is for all practical purposes dead as an way to distinguished who is and is not a noble.

Thus the fact that it is common to call a lawyer in the US "Esquire" is NOT bestowing on them some act ennobling them. Thus even if this amendment has been passed it would NOT have kept lawyers out of the Government but I wanted to show what the argument is, which is lawyers, do to the fact they are referred to as "Esquires", are "Nobles" and thus striped of their citizenship.

For more details on what Esquire is see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire
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