God vs. doctor: 1 in 2 say prayer saves the dying

[BridgeTheGap]

CHICAGO - When it comes to saving lives, God trumps doctors for many Americans.

An eye-opening survey reveals widespread belief that divine intervention can revive dying patients. And, researchers said, doctors "need to be prepared to deal with families who are waiting for a miracle."

More than half of randomly surveyed adults — 57 percent — said God's intervention could save a family member even if physicians declared treatment would be futile. And nearly three-quarters said patients have a right to demand such treatment.

When asked to imagine their own relatives being gravely ill or injured, nearly 20 percent of doctors and other medical workers said God could reverse a hopeless outcome.

"Sensitivity to this belief will promote development of a trusting relationship" with patients and their families, according to researchers. That trust, they said, is needed to help doctors explain objective, overwhelming scientific evidence showing that continued treatment would be worthless.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26272687/wid/11915773?GT1=31036

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. God to the tens of thousands who die anyway every day: Screw you

And don't get me started on the busloads of Sunday School children or Bible Campers who die in stupid accidents or because of food poisoning, or the devout mother of five who decides to murder her children so they can "be with God."

[BridgeTheGap]

2. It ain't just God -Tech Bear

I have a pagan friend who has "the power" - i.e. her father was in an icu unit with a dangerously high heart rate and not responding to medical intervention. My friend, from a distance began to send him "healing energy" as she puts it, and his heart rate slowed down.
I know of buddhists who have prayed for people who were in hopeless situations and they some how survived them.
Some of this stuff is the mind at work - i.e. the placebo effect.
Yes, there is death, but the universe also has some kind of built-in healing mechanism that we have only a minimal understanding of.

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. The proven power of the psychosomatic effect

Not to mention the selectivity of human memory: we tend to clearly remember the few positive outcomes (I was chewing gum when I found the money; therefore chewing gum helps me find money) and forget the many negative outcomes (the times I chewed gum and did not find money, and the times I found money while not chewing gum.)

Which is neither here nor there. If people believe that God can intervene and save people from certain death, how do they explain why the vast majority of people facing certain death actually do die? And what about the far too many people who die because they were beaten to death, or starved through neglect or poverty, or because their airplane crashed, or because of the flash flood or lightning? The only possible explanation is that God COULD intervene but chooses instead to let the person die, often alone or in gruesome conditions.

[BridgeTheGap]

4. It's the concept of "divine intervention" a "person" (God / Angels) as opposed to

"forces."
The sheer numbers involved (how many people on this planet die every minute, or are in near death situations)tend to indicate that no single "personage" is making fateful decisions on a minute by minute basis for thousands of beings. Guardian angels (our term)? What is the possibility that "beings" exist (or coexist) on other planes of reality? Can we be so arrogant as to say "we're it - there is nothing else(or no one outside this 4 dimensional realm of being)?

In buddhism, their is the concept of "shoten zenjin" (sp?) - a protective "force" that pervades the universe. It is not a "person," but can be called upon in dire circumstances.

The "teachings of Don Juan" (Carlos Castenda) also come to mind. Far beyond the concepts of a single supreme being, but seeking contact with beings who exist on other planes.

[cyborg_jim]

6. Giving chaos a face does not make it a person

[sakabatou]

5. Oy vey

CORRELATION DOESN'T EQUAL CAUSATION!

BTW, wasn't there a study where people who knew that they were being prayed to did worse?

[BridgeTheGap]

7. Yes, there was a study that showed that. n.t

[Beer Snob-50]

8. This reminds me of a joke..

as a town was flooding, the red cross came to save an older man. the man refused help saying god would save him. as the flood waters rose, more help came and again he refused it because god would save him. finally as he was on the roof of his home, a helicopter came to save him and he again refused it because god would save him. the flood waters rose above his roof and he drowned. as he came before god, he asked "god why didn't you save me?" and god answered "i sent you all that help and even a helicopter at the end."

the physician is gods intervention