Why does the Catholic Church need a Pope?

[progressoid]

What exactly are the Popes duties?

Sure, sure, I get the spiritual leader part; lots of religions have spiritual leaders. But other religions (western religions at least) don't seem to have a need for a position like a Pope. (I suppose the closest equivalent would be the Dalai Lama. However, if I'm not mistaken, he is also believed to be the reincarnation of the Buddha as well.)

I have only a casual understanding of structure of the Church, but at first glance it appears to be a hybrid of a religion and a monarchy. Long ago, a Catholic acquaintance told me that the first John Paul wanted to do away with all of the pomp and circumstance that surrounds the papacy. Make it more "democratic". Hmmm.

So, could the Catholic Church survive with a different organizational structure? Or even without a Pope?


edited to add: I don't intend for this to be a flame-fest, just wondering.

[dhinojosa]

1. Who are the sheep without a shephard? nt

[ElectricIron Sweeney]

23. What are Sheep?

Sheep are only who's in Montana.

[Maple]

2. A council of cardinals

which is what it will come down to eventually.

[onehandle]

3. Having a Pope is built into the structure.

Peter, the first "Pope" was the Rock on which the Church was established.

[ProgressiveConn]

4. Noah's Ark + Two Swords + Seamless Garment.

One power on earth one power in heaven.
One captain of the Ark one captain of the church.
World and Church without seams and thus indivisible..

The history of council leadership in the church isnt to flattering either. =)

Its silly.

[Burma Jones]

5. Because otherwise, they'd be Episcopalians,,,,,n/t

[InternalDialogue]

6. Humanity's direct contact with God?

I'm not Catholic either and have just a simple idea about that religion, but I believe someone once explained to me that the Catholics long ago determined that everyday people couldn't directly contact God. It had to be someone trained and ordained to do that. It's the basic explanation for confession too -- other Christian religions recognize that people, through prayer, can talk directly to God; the Catholic church requires that they appoint middle-men to do it for you.

[James T. Kirk]

20. I'm Catholic and I talk to God all the time.

We can all talk to God any time and it is encouraged.

Our priests have a special role. They have been empowered by Christ to forgive sins for him here on earth and they can consecrate the eucharist as well.

[ElectricIron Sweeney]

24. Don't bother,

He has his phones on.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. So they have "Daddy" to tell them what to do?Isn't he called the patriarch

[ltfranklin]

8. Answer with a Question...

Why does the Woods need a bear?

[progressoid]

13. OK, I'll bite

Why does the woods need a bear?

[NYC2099]

9. Catholics believe that Christ instituted the idea of a pope/monarchy...

The scene is where Christ determines the structure he wants for his church. He discusses the 3 forms of government.

First He tests democracy : He askes - "Who do the people say that I am" The apostles reply Elija, or John the Baptist. Give democracy to his church and a simple majority of people (with or without the guidance of the Holy Spirit) does not give the correct answer.

Second He tests an Aristocracy. An assembly of Leaders of the church. AKA, the 12 Apostles. Christ asks the 12 Apostles "Who do YOU say that I am". They look at each other but do NOT come to a conscensus. The correct answer does not come forth from the 12.

Finally, ONE MAN steps forward. Independent of the others. He says that 'You are the Christ. The son of the living God'.......

The idea of a pope / monarchy is how Christ wants the structure of his church.

So in answer to the original post - this is why Catholics have a pope.

[progressoid]

14. Really?

From a couple lines in Mathew, this complicated structure arose?

[ElectricIron Sweeney]

26. Sure, he thought corrupt, hypocritical religious leaders

were such a hit in Jerusalem that he should share the idea with the whole world.

[kwassa]

10. The Pope provides centralized leadership

This can be both positive and negative. Centralized governing structures are often more powerful and more efficient than other more diffuse styles of governing.

Islam, for instance, has no central hierarchy, and there is no central clerical power that can authoritatively disavow the fundamentalist terrorists, and have the rest of the faithful obey a policy about it. Any Islamic cleric can declare a fatwa, a religious edict authorizing certain actions, and they do.

The negative side of centralized leadership is obvious, and is why the Protestants protested. Catholicism evolved in an era without democracies, and reflects the monarchal structures of governments at the time of it's own inception.

[ElectricIron Sweeney]

25. Mis-leadership

[aneerkoinos]

11. It's the other way round

Bishop of Rome needs a big flock to fleece.

[catbert836]

12. It's simply tradition

Although a good tradition. It's a great idea to have a central figure in this huge religion (1/6 people in the world are Catholics). Other religions don't need a central figure because they've never had one.

[ButterflyBlood]

15. if he was simply a figurehead I might agree

but the Pope has too much power.

[catbert836]

17. And that's bad how?

The Catholic church is not a state, it's a religion. The amountof power the pope has is just right, if you ask me. It used to be a lot worse.

[progressoid]

19. What exactly are his powers?

Is he free to tell Catholics, "its OK to use a condom"? Or is that decided by a council of bishops/cardinals?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. It's a pyramid-like structure

At the lowest level you have the parish priests, and they can get promoted up through the ranks to monsignor, bishop, archbishop, and cardinal.

I have been associated with two churches that have a similar, although not as extensive, hierarchical structure. In both the Lutheran and Episcopal churches, there are local bishops who act as supervisors of all the clergy in their synod (Lutheran)/diocese(Episcopal). However, they differ from the Catholic church in that jurisdiction stops at national boundaries. Each country has its own autonomous Lutheran church, and while they all belong to the Lutheran World Federation, its main function is to coordinate charitable work around the globe.

The national Anglican/Episcopal churches belong to the Anglican Communion, headed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, but unlike the Catholic church, there is no such thing as a cardinal, and the representatives of the churches outside England have no say in the selection of the Archbishop. Unlike the Pope, the Archibishop of Canterbury cannot force the clergy of other countries to do anything. He is more of a mediator than a ruler.

Unless you're going to have a fundamentalist type structure in which anybody can declare himself a preacher and found a church that teaches any old thing (usually with heavy overtones of a cult of personality), a hierarchical structure makes sense, since it sets up a mechanism for catching clergy who've "gone bad." It doesn't always work, as in the child molestation cases, but that's because the Catholic hierarchy was playing "old boys' network" instead of disciplining the offenders for committing what is definitely a grave sin in official Catholic teaching.

In the Episcopal church, clergy wannabes have to go through a "discernment process" with a committee of members of their church and be approved for seminary by their bishop. They then have to take three years of post-graduate study, do a sort of internship in a parish as a so-called "transitional deacon," and then be approved for ordination by their bishop.

The bishop (in all denominations that have bishops) is advisor and supervisor of the priests and is expected to visit all the parishes and meet privately with all the clergy in the diocese once a year. If priests have a problem of the type that a lay person would consult their priest about, they go to their bishop. The bishop is also an administrator. In the Episcopal church, for example, it's the diocese that sets salary scales and administers benefits for clergy and other church employees, such as secretaries and music directors. The diocese also facilitates communication among its parishes by publishing a newsletter. In religious matters, the Episcopal Church allows only bishops to confirm people or receive people who were baptized in other denominations as new Episcopalians or to ordain clergy.

Buddhists are a different story entirely. Each denomination of Buddhism has its own hierarchy, and each Asian country has anywhere from one to half a dozen denominations that predominate. There is no Buddhist Pope because there is no international hierarchy of Buddhists. (There may be loose associations, but there's nothing like the College of Cardinals where all the top-ranking Buddhists from all the Buddhist countries get together to create policies for all Buddhists to follow.) Even so, Buddhists in Asia are not as free-form as a lot of American Buddhists are, and they have their own administrative structures.

[imenja]

18. It's all explained here

on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papacy

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. Traditionally...

Catholicism derives the supposed legitimacy of its claim to be the "Universal Church" from the papal succession. Jesus says to his apostle Peter, "thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church"...and Peter was supposedly the first bishop of Rome and first Pope. This is the basis of the so-called "apostolic succession", from whence the Church derives its claims of temporal authority in matters spiritual. So yes, the Church needs a pope...although there's debate about whether he should be "first among equals" or supreme head of the Church.

[ElectricIron Sweeney]

22. The church needs a business friendly God

But, the well connected will settle for a pope.

[aneerkoinos]

27. Dalai Lama

Not reincarnation of Buddha (to be exact, buddhahood means freedom from cycle of birth and death).

Many consider Dalai Lamas manifestations of Avalokiteshvara, the Boddhisatva of Compassion.

Dalai Lama is currently the political leader of the Tibetan governement in exile, but spiritually does not have any authority (and politically very little) over other Tibetan sects, so Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople ("primus inter parens") is much closer analogy to the position of Dalai Lama than the power hungry Bishop of Rome.

[H2O Man]

28. Same reason the woods

needs a bear.