If there is a God, She/He/It was a total incompetent

[Cyrano]

Either that, or She/He/It hired a couple of incompetent consultants to help out.

Let’s face it. Is this the world you would have created had you had the chance? Who would have created a mental disorder that led to organized religion? Who would have come up with the idea of unfulfilled horniness? Who would have made women go through the monthly hell of not being in control of their own emotional well being? What kind of sick being would have conceived of the idea of hatred? I ask you: Would any sane being have made your liver rot from too many pina coladas?

Yeah, I know, according to the comic-book version, She/He/It produced the Garden of Eden, put two people there, and told them not to eat the apples. Don’t eat the apples? Don’t learn? Don’t become self-aware? Don’t drop your fig leaves?

We’re talking about some seriously sick creator in that version of creation. Her/His/Its robots eat one goddamn apple, get thrown out of Eden, and forever after, everyone who comes along is stuck with things like Caligula, Nero, Torquemada, Nazis, Robespierre, Reagan & Bush, mortgages, car payments, three plus dollars a gallon of gas, homelessness, poverty, pain and suffering, drug prices, insurance companies, car salesmen, Limbaugh & Coulter, and, -- in case I forgot, Her/His/Its fiendish foursome: pestilence, war, famine and death.

Full disclosure: I am a devout agnostic. Having said this, I say that anyone who believes that some rational, intelligent entity created this universe and us, might be being mislead. As an agnostic, I’m open to all ideas. So can anyone explain to me what She/He/It (if She/He/It exists) had in mind when She/He/It put together the master plan?

And while you’re at it, please explain to me why this “creator” was not a total incompetent.

[Birthmark]

1. Like the platypus isn't a dead giveaway... eom

[zbdent]

20. no, the platypus is a clear indication that God created marijuana before the

platypus ...

(based on a Robin Williams bit ...)

[Rosemary2205]

2. pestilence, war and famine keep the population under control

not pretty but it works.

[varkam]

16. Were there an all-powerful god...

then you think he/she/it would have a better way of keeping the population under control. For example, how about only allowing a certain number of eggs to be fertilized in a certain year? Sure seems nicer than women and children being hacked to death with dull machetes.

[rug]

3. And if there isn't, whose fault is it?

[patrice]

4. By definition, an omnipotent Creator would not be subject to our definitions of competence,

nor our definition of definitions.

[crawfish]

5. I might try...

but you seem slightly less than "open-minded" on the subject.

[Cyrano]

10. Excuse me, but an agnostic is one who neither confirms nor denies the existence

of some "superior" being.

I am no more close minded to the theories of atheists than I am to believers. What I seek is verifiable evidence one way or the other. However, given the topic, I don't believe such "evidence" will ever come about.

However, I really don't want to judge what anyone believes or disbelieves, as long as they don't push their beliefs or disbeliefs on me.

Am I open minded on the subject of some universal intelligence that some call God? I confess that my mind is, to a large degree, closed on the tales of the "Book." But my mind is totally open to the possible existence of some universal intelligence that binds all living objects together and that may or may not exist.

So if you're going to come at me with dogma, save it. If you want to speak of the possible permutations of reality and alternate universes, let's talk.

[crawfish]

18. Sorry, I probably overreacted

Personally, I don't believe the story is literal in any sense.

"Adam", in the ancient language, means, literally, "man". The story tells of man's fall due to his self-awareness of good and evil, and of his place in the world following. It is not there as a history lesson, or a science lesson, but a spiritual one.

[JohnnyLib2]

6. I'll be glad when this matter is decided.

Let me know, please! :shrug:

[Cyrano]

14. June 4th. Haven't yet gotten the memo as to which year it will be.

[Mother Of Four]

7. I'll take a stab at this...

In another thread I talked about my Father fighting with my mother, and keeping me from being baptized into Catholisim...he was incredibly open minded and was a "Show me" person.

A little background, my mother broke with her religion to marry my father...and was insistent that we (the kids) not be punished for it. Dad was determined that at least one of his children not be "brainwashed" and had the right to choose their own beliefs. This (and many other reasons) was a factor in their divorce.

My Grandfather (Stepmom's) was a Methodist Minister, but was very tolerant of others beliefs. The result was that I ended up growing up with an interesting view on beliefs and religion.

I can recall one conversation my father and I had as a teen, what I write next is going to be as close as I can remember it.

We were talking about "Intelligent Design"...

My father looked at me, grinned and then got up to get a glass of water. He set it down in front of me, and said "What's in that glass?"

I of course, being a teen said ..."Uh...water?"

He said "No...Atoms"

"Huh?"

He asked me if I'd ever really thought of what an atom looks like, he talked about the makeup of one...how they had orbits like planets do...and that the nucleus had the same pull to the electrons that the sun did for our planets.

He then said something I will NEVER forget, he said that many religions are arrogant. That no one really knows what the Universe is really like... that just like if you break us down to our components we are made up of atoms, it's just as likely that our solar system is to a "god" what an atom is to us.

He stated that if a "god" really IS omnipotent...we are as able to understand it's motives as well as the atomic grunge we scrape from under our fingernails can understand us.

He then went on to explain to me that Humans somehow developed a deep seated need to believe there "Is something more", and by doing so imparted all of our pettiness, capability for compassion, anger, cruelty, love, joy etc into that belief no matter how the belief manifested into the different religions.

He explained to me that "Faith" is exactly that - believing in something, on faith alone with no proof at all.

We talked for hours, (My father is passed away, sadly...I loved talking with him)

He told me not to demean people beliefs, because for some it's the only thing that makes their life bearable. To never talk down, or deride religion because it serves an important purpose to cultures around the world. That no one really knows what happens when you die...because after all, humans function via electricity (Brain, heart) and it's been proven that energy can neither be created or destroyed, it simply changes form.


"And while you’re at it, please explain to me why this “creator” was not a total incompetent."

The "creator" in many religions IS incompetent though -

I think I answered your post in a round about way already, but in a nutshell...it's because Human beings rationalized Human traits on something that can not POSSIBLY be human if it exists, and humans are not perfect. Therefore, the "Gods" in religion are just as cruel and as loving ...and as inept - As the human beings who created them.

[TZ]

8. Wow. Great post.

Your father sounds like he was a very smart and insightful person...:thumbsup:

[emilyg]

9. Wish I had known your father.

[Mother Of Four]

12. Emily...

You would have loved him I think, I read alot but post very little.

When my father died in 98, I struggled with beliefs. At the time of his death I was over 375 lbs - Probably closer to 400.



There have been many picture threads, where some post who they are...I've not participated because who I am is so much more than a picture. But I'll post one here for you, then I'll tell you why.

This is me now.



Everything that I am can be traced to my father, he helped make me unique. With his death, I found myself going over each conversation that we had about the nature of life, death, religion...and what happens when you pass on.

He had core conviction, that no matter WHAT you believe...if you do good in this world then you are covered if there is an existence after this, if there isn't one then it's still win/win because you've made our single existence that much of a better place.

After coming to terms with my grief, I lost around 200 lbs. I went back to school and became an EMT-B...then an EMT-I. I did this with four children.

I passed on what he taught me to my own children, and they have no pressure from me on if to believe...how to believe...or what to believe in if anything.

I found that I can not bring myself to believe there is "nothing" waiting for us...but I also don't believe in religion. I suppose you can say that I'm Hoping for the best, and that someday we'll sit and have conversations again, but that I realize it's a hope instead of something "That will be"

It took his death, for everything he taught me to coalesce. I am grateful to him, and always will be, for being so determined in opening my eyes to ALL things around me...

Instead of a "One Truth"

[emilyg]

13. Thank you for sharing.

I had a similar relationship with my step-dad.

[zonmoy]

11. could he possibly be evil rather than incompetent.

just not care, or a combination of factors.

[Cyrano]

15. Beats me. I haven't yet received the update memo.

[varkam]

17. That's one thought I had, too.

The "Horrible, Hidden God", as Victor Stenger puts it.

[davidinalameda]

19. how can you blame God for Nero and the Nazis?

how about laying blame where its due

smack dab at the feet of people

God has given the means to combat poverty; fight every disease; build things from microcomputers to the pyramids

create great works of art and music

it's that pesky free will thing that God also gave us

we can either choose to do good or not

we can either get off our asses and stop bitching about how horrible things and try and change the world, or not