Pope approves Lourdes indulgences

[muriel_volestrangler]

BBC story via Chicken Yoghurt:

Pope Benedict XVI has authorised special indulgences to mark the 150th anniversary of the Virgin Mary's reputed appearance at Lourdes.

Catholics visiting the site within a year of 8 December will be able to receive an indulgence, which the Church teaches can reduce time in purgatory.
...
The pontiff also said believers who prayed at places of worship dedicated to Our Lady of Lourdes from 2-11 February next year - or who were unable to make the journey - would also be able to receive indulgences.

The decree was signed by US Cardinal J Francis Stafford, who is head of the Apostolic Penitentiary, a Vatican court dealing with indulgences and matters of conscience.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7131088.stm

I didn't realise that indulgences (though not for money now, just in return for making a journey) still existed.

Have any Catholics here ever received an indulgence? Would you ever consider asking for one? How do you feel about the 'special offer on indulgences this year!' aspect of this?

[hobbit709]

1. Weren't "indulgences" one of Martin Luther's complaints?

[sarge43]

2. Yup.

Ah jeez, do we have ta go thru that Reformation shit again!?

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. I think it was the *selling* of indulgences he objected to

because it was basically taking bribes on behalf of God. This is more of a reward for making an effort - go to Lourdes this year, and that gives you credit in the afterlife. I'd feel better about it if the effort was 'work in a soup kitchen' or something - but, for all I know, the Catholic church will already give indulgences for that.

[struggle4progress]

8. Somewhat more subtle objections than merely to the selling:

Disputation of Doctor Martin Luther on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences (1517)

...
5. The pope .. cannot remit any penalties other than those which he has imposed either by his own authority or by that of the Canons ...
20. Therefore by "full remission of all penalties" the pope means not actually "of all," but only of those imposed by himself.
21. Therefore those preachers of indulgences are in error, who say that by the pope's indulgences a man is freed from every penalty, and saved ...

28. It is certain that when the penny jingles into the money-box, gain and avarice can be increased, but the result of the intercession of the Church is in the power of God alone ...
43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better work than buying pardons ...

62/63. The true treasure of the Church is ... naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last.
64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.
65. Therefore the treasures of the Gospel are nets with which they formerly were wont to fish for men of riches.
66. The treasures of the indulgences are nets with which they now fish for the riches of men ...

81. This unbridled preaching of pardons makes it no easy matter, even for learned men, to rescue the reverence due to the pope from slander, or even from the shrewd questionings of the laity ...
86. Again: -- "Why does not the pope, whose wealth is to-day greater than the riches of the richest, build just this one church of St. Peter with his own money, rather than with the money of poor believers?" ...
90. To repress these arguments and scruples of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the Church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies, and to make Christians unhappy ...

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html

[Marrah_G]

11. Go to lourdes is something only the wealthy can do if you live on this side of the planet

It is indeed selling off time spent in heaven to those who can afford it and completely screwing the poor. It goes against the teachings of the church.

[Evoman]

3. The whole thing is insanity.

The fucking pope, catholicism, indulgences, excorcism, the virgin mary......it boggles the mind. When I think about it, it almost cripples me in fright that people take this shit seriously. Why? Why would anyone believe any of this? Aren't they embarrased? Aren't they concerned that they are being conned?

I try not to think about religion too deeply (as is evident from my posts, no doubt :rofl:). Because it literally makes me cry for humanity.

[Sal Minella]

6. You didn't even mention paving your way to Paradise by having a Little Catholic Baby every year

throughout all of your fertile years (age 18 to 38, say). A woman could certainly ensure her place in paradise by providing twenty more little humans who would raise THEIR young to do whatever the Pope tells them including having twenty Little Catholic Babies each.....

[Evoman]

7. It hurts my brain.

It repulses every fibre of my being. Not only the religious, bullshit aspects, but the fact that your considered livestock by your leaders. It's non-sensical AND it authoritarian. Religion is like Evoman kryptonite, Idealist Hippie.

[Speck Tater]

5. As a person raised in a Catholic family

I've noticed the Catholic church has a long history of encouraging people to buy their way into heaven.

[LibertyLover]

9. Got an indulgence many years ago

when I was still a practicing Catholic. If I remember correctly it was in connection with the once every 10 year Jubilee Year. The pope at the time granted a plenary indulgence to ever Catholic who went to mass and received communion during one particular week.

On a somewhat different tact, but still related to Lourdes, if you wanted to go to Lourdes to get your indulgence, you could fly up from Rome on Vatican Airlines.

[Marrah_G]

10. Are you fucking kidding me?

This guy is a joke- I come from an EXTREMELY Catholic family and I have to say: This would make my father chuckle. I cannot see this going over well with Catholic Americans. It would mean having enough money to pay for a trip would gain you some heavenly advantage over the poor and that goes against the teachings of Jesus.

[Goblinmonger]

12. But you receive a plenary indulgance

for saying the rosary. You don't have to have money to get indulgences in the catholic church. Hell, you get it for reading scripture.

[Marrah_G]

14. Anyone can do that though

This is something being offered that only the well off can do.

Rosaries can be made of just about anything. Shit my brother sent my mother Rosary beads made of boot laces when he was in Iraq.

[Goblinmonger]

13. Anyone here who was or is a catholic has received an indulgence

Receiving the sacrament of reconcilliation departs a plenary indulgence. It releases you from the guilt and eternal punishment. You do not receive a release from temporal punishment and may end up in purgatory for a bit to get ready to go to heaven. That is what the other indulgences are for. You get a plenary indulgence for saying the rosary in church (if memory serves). You also get indulgences for praying and for reading scripture and other stuff that costs no money.

[Marrah_G]

15. Those are available to everyone.

Many Catholics will see this as something only the wealthier people can afford, hence it is buying an indulgence.

[SeanQuinn]

16. In as a practicing and believing Catholic.

Hit me with your best shot, but please be respectful of my beliefs (within reason).

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. Well, it was mainly surprise that 'indulgences' still exist

but looking at Goblinmonger's posts, they're not that unusual, so maybe they are just seen as an acknowledgement of 'a good act', so attaching them to a pilgrimage to Lourdes may not be out of place.

The "for this year only" aspect seems strange, though - why would the visit be less worthy a year later? That smacks of marketing, rather than a consistent theological stance.