An Easter Question

[Dookus]

The book of Matthew quotes Jesus himself as saying:

12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


There are two problems with this - first, is that the Old Testament story of Jonas tells of spending three days in a fish, not a whale. But that's a minor quibble compared to the rest of the quote.

Traditional christian interpetration has Jesus dying on a Friday afternoon, and being resurrected sometime before Sunday morning, meaning he spent a day and a half "in the heart of the earth", certainy not three days and three nights.

I have heard one interpretation that says Jesus died on Wednesday - a special passover "sabbath" and was resurrected on Saturday, but certainly this is not a mainstay of any major christian denomination.

So how is this reconciled?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I'd never heard about Jesus dying on a Wednesday

As for Jonah and the fish-I've been told that being "in a big fish" meant being in some sort of trouble or dillema-in other words, a colloquialism was translated literally. The fact that it was "fish" in the OT and "whale" in the NT is another translation glitch, I think.

In the Islamic tradition, Jesus did not die on the cross, but merely joined God.

[imenja]

21. doesn't the fact that Islam and Judaism recognize Jesus of Nazareth

as a prophet suggest that he actually walked the earth? A lot of atheists are determined to prove that Jesus never lived, not simply that He wasn't divine. If we are to take their view that Jesus was a complete fabrication, how do we explain his presence in Islam and Judaism. Did Mohammad not discuss him?

[Stunster]

2. A 'day' needn't be 24 hours

For a first-century Palestinian Jew, a part of a day would count as 'a day'.

If Jesus was buried on a Friday before sundown, then Friday would count. Then you have the whole of Saturday. Then he rose on 'the first day of the week' (= Sunday). So, Sunday would count as the third day.

Lots more detail here: http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/pasover.htm

[trotsky]

3. "three days and three nights"

Even if we accept your fast-and-loose definition of a "day," there's another half of the quote that you've conveniently ignored.

[Stunster]

8. But by the same token

If a part of a night were 'a night', we'd have a part of night that was Friday, a part of night that was Saturday, and a part of night that was Sunday.

That's 3 'nights'.

Looks like you've struck out again.

[trotsky]

11. LOL

But a night isn't "part of a night."

THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS.

It's not me up at bat, Stunster. Go back to the dugout.

[Stunster]

12. I see

So first century Jews have to have used the term 'three days and three nights' not to mean three periods of daytime (occurring on three different days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday) and three periods of nightime (occurring on three different days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday) because "trotsky", someone who's not a first century Jew and speaks neither Aramaic or Greek, says so.

ROTFLMfuckingAO!:D

[trotsky]

16. Three days and three nights.

You had to make up a how-it-could-have-been wishful scenario to "invent" days and nights to explain your little savior story. In case you hadn't noticed, the laughing you hear is directed AT you, not WITH you.

[imenja]

23. I have the answer!

In my infinite, divinely inspired wisdom. :evilgrin: See post 22.

[Dookus]

4. Even first century palestinian jews

could count to three. There were not three days and three nights.

[imenja]

17. so become a Jew

and they do count to three. You'll be turned away three times when asking to convert. On the fourth time, they may discuss the matter with you.

[trotsky]

19. That is not true for all rabbis.

Did you see it on Sex and the City? Many synagogues welcome interested converts from the first contact.

[imenja]

20. oh I expect you are correct

But on Sex in the City, Charlotte had to go through the three denial thing. Remember Carrie's point that Charlotte knew what playing hard to get was about? I spoke to a friend of mine who is a devout Jew (she also teaches Judaic Studies) and she confirmed that is the ordinary procedure. My guess is that may be true for Orthodox and Conservative temples, but not Reform Judaism. She undoubtedly told me, but I have forgotten all the details. Charlotte's must have been a Conservative temple. It might be ever tougher to become an Orthodox Jew, but they practice a kind of devotion that most of us hedonistic Americans couldn't handle. One of the most endearing aspects of Judaism is that they leave people alone. None of this banging on doors and stopping you on the street like the Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists. Gotta respect that. Plus they can count to three!

[tjdee]

5. Yes, you are right--he was put on the cross Wednesday. Good Friday is a

Catholic construct, as is Holy Saturday, which ends Lent. He then would have risen Saturday...but it's really guesswork with all of this.

Back then they figured the 'sabbath' was Saturday (Jewish sabbath). and did all this business with a day not being a day or whatever.

However, the sabbath in question is one mentioned in John 19:31 where Pilate is asked for the bodies on the cross to be taken down because they shouldn't remain so on the sabbath. It says 'for that sabbath was a high day'. As you mentioned, the next day was a special sabbath because of...the Feast of Unleavened bread I think, so it was not a Saturday.

The Last Supper was the first meal of Passover, from what I've read.

All these holidays are symbolic, so that's why Good Friday hangs around.



Here's a (sorry, fundie...I think) site that explains it in detail:
http://members.aol.com/prophecy05/Articles/Prophecy/3days3nights.html

[Dookus]

6. actually

I'm not right. I don't assert he died on a wednesday at all. I don't even assert he ever lived.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. So why did you ask the question?

:shrug:

[Dookus]

13. One needs to be a christian

to ask a question about christianity? :shrug:

[BoogDoc7]

9. That's...

Pretty difficult to prove.

And it amazes me how people impose their own western rules of looking at things on the Bible, which was written in a different context.

[tjdee]

10. Okay, your 'interpretation that you heard' is right.

Geez!

[Dookus]

14. but yet

I'm unaware of any major christian denomination that holds Christ died on a Wednesday and was resurrected on a Saturday.

[trotsky]

18. But the fact that some Christians have come up with this theory

seems to indicate that they are at least aware of the logistical problem of making Friday night 'til Sunday morning equal to "three days and three nights." Interesting, eh?

[Igel]

15. A bunch of Worldwide Church of God offspring churches

buy this line of reasoning. Christ died late Wednesday just before the first sabbath in the Days of Unleavened Bread, and was resurrected just before sundown on Saturday.

As for three days on the Friday-Sunday scenario: it was dark when one of the women showed up at the tomb and he was already gone. If that's Sunday morning, then there's no daylight portion of Sunday involved. So we get three days squeezed into ... the short time before sundown on Friday, obviously Saturday morning and afternoon have to count as separate days ...

Another problem is buying the makings for the burial ointments. They didn't have time on Friday, and it's unlikely they'd have the wherewithall to get shopkeepers to open up Saturday night and still have time to make the stuff and get to the burial site before daylight on Sunday.

[imenja]

22. Obvious point: our holidays don't correspond

to the precise days of Christ's death and Resurrection. Jesus, after all, was not actually born on December 25. We think he was born sometime around there, but that is the date chosen to celebrate his birth. The same is likely true for Holy Week. Christian holidays correspond with Jewish and Pagan celebrations. Consider the significance of the equinox and the solstice.

Insisting on a literal interpretation of the Bible is, in my view, simplistic. I believe the fundamentalists miss many of the crucial lessons of the life of Christ because they are so fixated on specific verses of their King James version of the Bible. I find fundamentalist atheists especially amusing. Martin Buber has written about problems in translation and why a literal interpretation of the Bible misses the mark. I agree with him.

[trotsky]

24. And that's a perfectly acceptable answer.

Problem is, precious few Christians accept it. Look at the individuals on this thread.

[imenja]

25. people don't know

it's not that they don't accept it, they just haven't thought about it.

[Dookus]

26. Yes

our holidays do not correspond. But your point raises a bigger issue for me: if the bible is NOT literally true in all areas, how do we decide which parts are literally true and which parts aren't? Further, if one concedes there is even ONE error in the Bible, then the whole book is not inerrant, as many fundies believe, and the claims the bible makes for itself are false.

So again, how does one decide which parts are errant and which parts are inerrant? And more importantly, why should I believe anyone's personal view on this?

[imenja]

27. that's a concern for fundamentalists

not me. Feel free to take it up with them. I'd start somewhere like Free Republic.

[shawn703]

28. I don't think he was crucified on Friday either

This belief is gaining more popularity too.