I ran across this cartoon

[cosmik debris]

I usually find this cartoonist to be entertaining. But I have some real misgivings about this cartoon.

[Warpy]

1. Why? He's right.

Stupid anti atheist laws are on the books all over the place. We're seen as a threat to country, Mom and apple pie.\

We're suffered from bad PR from the pulpit for a very, very long time. The ocean will wear rubber pants to keep its bottom dry before we're totally accepted for who we are in this country.

[cosmik debris]

4. It seems to me

That it reinforces the notion that we don't have to worry about theists, but atheists might be problematic. I see reality the opposite way. Atheists are a safe bet, theists are probably dangerous.

[Fridays Child]

2. I don't know if the artist is saying his statement should or should not be true.

Maybe he's just making an observation.

The only issue I take with cartoon is that atheists don't actually have religious beliefs. Someone once said that atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. Very true.

[cyborg_jim]

3. Atheists don't have an religious beliefs.

It is as much a satire about religion in the US as it is about the way politics focuses on emotional and illogical issues.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Saw it and took it as an observation

like other posters here, I wondered about using the word "religion" in regards to atheism.

Now the question to ask, it seems to me, is why this observation had to be made. I was a Christian the first 38 years of my life, and was active in my church from the age of 3, when I was part of the choir, attended regular services and Sunday School. Never in that time did I hear any minister rail against atheism. Since I became a Sufi initiate, I have had my religious encounters enriched by attending ceremonies done in the Lakota, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, and Muslim traditions. And again, in none of them was atheism even mentioned. There are probably some ministers who do rail against it, but I haven't personally met up with them.

So I would say that perhaps one reason people have fears about atheism is that they know next to nothing about it. From what I have read here, atheists don't tend to hang out with other atheists per se--they don't have any organizations where they meet, and, except for here, apparently don't talk about religion amongst their friends (this from a R/T thread I started to find out more about atheists). So it's not like a person can go to a specific location to listen to and find out about atheists. Another false belief I think many theists have about atheism is that it has no moral values. Realize that many people who are theists feel they got their moral values from church or other house of worship or some holy book. They cannot fathom how someone could come up with a coherent set of values without some history, some philosophy, behind it.

I realize that many atheists here at DU are rather sensitive about things, and I hope that this post isn't taken the wrong way by them. I am just trying to explain, from a theist's point of view, why atheists may be mistrusted or feared by the general population.

A person who is brave enough to run for political office and declare they don't believe in God has their work cut out for them. They must show that they do have a moral compass, and where it came from. If they are articulate and also humble in their presentation, they are likely to get more understanding from the general populace--and a day will come when a cartoon like the one posted will not have to be drawn.

[skepticscott]

7. This is nothing new

Throughout history, people have hated, fought against and killed those who didn't share their religious beliefs. Whether those people had different religious beliefs or no religious beliefs, there were still liable to charges of heresy and sentences of torture and death from whichever religious faction happened to have political, military or legal power at the time. It's never had anything to do with not knowing anything about atheism..frankly, there isn't that much to know. Atheists don't believe in any gods...period. It's not a complicated philosophy and doesn't need libraries full of explanation and apologetics (otherwise known as theology) to keep it from falling apart under the weight of reason.

And BTW, atheists DO have organizations where they meet....we just don't have the same need as religionists to huddle together and reassure each other that our beliefs aren't silly and that yes, we really are going to heaven even if those other churchgoers aren't.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Atheist groups?

Interesting, because I did a thread about that on R/T and all the responses I got back were that there were no atheist groups-that people who responded had friends (in other words, they weren't loners), but that they and their friends never talked of religion.

My point was that if any candidate who said they were atheist wanted to have a chance of winning a primary or an election, that person would have to show that they have a moral code. Many people equate the atheistic moral code with what was done in the Soviet Union, where their constitution gave equal weight to freedom of religion and freedom from religion, but which in reality resulted in religious persecution--and mixed up with that is the Stalinist purges and mass starvations.

An atheist politician would have to educate the general public, much like the Catholic presidential candidates had to. Al Smith was the first, and was soundly defeated, in part because of his faith. During the 1960 campaign, I saw literature from fundamentalist Protestants that said things like Catholics were idol worshippers, if Kennedy got into office, the Pope would really rule the country, etc. JFK had to overcome these prejudices and show that he would be independent,which he did via speeches.

Sadly, it is far easier for a scoundrel who seeks public office to wrap themselves up in one of the mainstream religions than it is for a good honest atheist to run for office. But I think this can change with education.

[immoderate]

13. I go to a weekly atheist meet-up, but that's rare.

Our weekly Broward Atheists Meetup takes place in a pub. (Good burgers, more than 30 kinds of beer on tap. What church can match that?) But it's rare, as you say, for atheists to attend meetings. Unlike religious meetings, little time is spent affirming our beliefs. Most conversation is about politics, science, and personal anecdotes.

Atheists get their moral code from the same place most religions get theirs, survival. What types of actions would prolong the survival of the species?

You're right about the education element. Our group is chartered as an educational organization, and we run events that promote science, rational thinking, and seperationism. I'm told that we will soon have a meeting with our congressional rep, to brief her on our issues.

As you are aware, some of the social aspects offered by a church, are not available to most atheists. There are exceptions, such as the network of humanist synagogues, that offer Jewish community and tradition w/o the supernaturalism. However, it's easy to see that for non-believers, it's hard to hook up around an abscense. There aren't meet-ups of non-golfers, or non-readers. Atheists are not anti-social, but tend to find themselves affiliating with other types of groups that reflect their various interests, rather than a group that reflects their lack of interest in religion.

--IMM

[jgraz]

6. The cartoonist clearly forgot the :sarcasm: tag

I took it as a slam against religionists. Not that funny, but certainly not anti-atheist.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. I think he's right. Sadly. If an atheist were to run for president,

his/her atheism would absolutely be a huge issue.

Which is too bad.

In a lot of ways, I'd feel safer with an atheist at the helm. No more of the rapture-ready "Jesus is a'comin' soon!!" God bless America rah rah bullshit.

[Goblinmonger]

9. Being aware of the cartoonist myself

I think your satire meter might need readjustment after your day in GD.

I think the cartoon is saying that people would freak about and atheist and that is stupid. I agree with others above that the satire is perhaps quite subtle and advanced, but I don't see it as a slam on atheists.

Of course, I'm the eternal optimist so my Pollyanna attitude might be coming through. :rofl:

[cosmik debris]

12. You're probably right

I usually stay away from GD because I don't have the intestinal fortitude for it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. For what it's worth, since a few in the thread have said 'he', the cartoonist is a SHE - Ann Telnaes

http://www.anntelnaes.com/

Almost irrelevant question: why are female cartoonists seemingly so rare? More so, it seems to me, than either female comics, or female opinion writers.

[dmallind]

14. accurate indeed

The cartoon is both accurate and I suspect aimed more at those who irrationally hate atheists than at atheists themselves.

Certainly accurate. This is a link to a rather interesting recent Newsweek article in which this nugget showed up

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14638243/site/newsweek/

"In a recent NEWSWEEK Poll, Americans said they believed in God by a margin of 92 to 6—only 2 percent answered "don't know"—and only 37 percent said they'd be willing to vote for an atheist for president. (That's down from 49 percent in a 1999 Gallup poll—which also found that more Americans would vote for a homosexual than an atheist.)"

We atheists certainly DO meet up for that purpose, or at least some of us do. I wish more did, because then we may be able to get political clout more in keeping with our real numbers. Atheists easily outnumber Jews and Muslims in the US, but we do not have the media call us every time some religiously-inspired lunacy is afoot. Jewish and Muslim anti-defamation spokespeople are on the rolodex of every reporter in the country. We only get printed if we buy ad space. Before I moved I belonged to the second largest locally based atheist group in the country - Minnesota Atheists. We had about 300-400 members but not all active. We managed to keep a cable show going (if you ever saw a public access cable show called Atheist Talk with a fat strangely-accented interviewer that's me :-) !) for a few years. We managed to keep up a Winter Solstice dinner that raised money for charity and various special interest groups including a Toastmasters club for nonbelievers! Even then though, we never could get enough money together for a real building, and could never get much media or political clout. Some lobbying efforts were made, but nothing like those of other minority viewpoints on religion which were much smaller in number but better funded.

If atheists could be encouraged to be joiners we might one day be able to gain the kind of influence and success that Jews and gays and other often-reviled minorities have. Sadly the nature of the beast is otherwise. Like someone said, it's a bit strange to have a club for non-golfers, although I should point out that non-golfers are not marginalized and despised like atheists, and golf does not control a large part of political motivation for the majority like religion does.