Right now I hate God, because I hate myself.

[IdaBriggs]

I am very clear on it. I am in the middle of trying to cope with the loss of my two beloved dogs Anya and Tessa, who were killed instantaneously by the same car when I didn't grasp their leashes quickly enough and they escaped my clutches at the groomer's. I had bottle fed them as nine day old orphans, and considered them "my children" instead of "my dogs" due to an eight year battle with infertility. I am currently five and a half month's pregnant with twins, and there is no doubt in my mind this accident was completely preventable and my fault.

Like every other person on the planet, I have dealt with my share of tragedy and triumph in life; generally I think of myself as a "strong" person. I usually have a positive outlook on life, and am able to keep "bad things" in perspective. For example, I grew up in a highly abusive home, but was able to not only forgive my parents, but also myself. I actively worked to find strength, compassion, and wisdom from the experience, using it to allow me to help others recovering from similar pain. Faith did not protect one from "bad things happening" in my mind, but it made it easier to cope with them.

Through it all, I continued to hold onto the idea of a loving, compassionate God whose will was unknowable, but always had our best interests at heart. Each experience, no matter how challenging, was simply a step on our journey, with the eventual destination being a "remembering" of our being a beloved child of God. When "bad things happened" it was not because we were being "punished" by a cruel and capricious God, but rather that our limited understanding prevented us from seeing the bigger picture.

Today I do not see things the same way. I hate God. If I could kill God, I would. I am ANGRY. I understand this is part of the grieving process, and have been assured this too shall pass. For me, my Puppy Girls were my BABIES, and I have lost them in a traumatic accident in the prime of their lives instead of after they have lived rich, full lives. The scene keeps replaying in my head, and the knowledge that it is *MY FAULT* with no acceptable excuses BURNS....

I feel cheated. I finally received the blessing of pregnancy, and appear to have "traded" my Fur Babies for Human Babies. Looking back in the midst of my grief, it seems like every moment of happiness and joy I have ever experienced has been PAID FOR in pain, misery, and tears. My expectations of a truly happy holiday for the first time in nearly a decade because we have FINALLY "finished" our infertility battle are in ruins -- I keep listening for Anya and Tessa's call to me, and the silence is deafening.

I am a bereaved mother, and the love I bear for the babies inside of me is not a replacement for the love I have/had for my Lost Ones.

The answer, of course, is forgiveness, but I'm not there yet. Being unable to forgive myself, I cannot forgive God. Hating God, I cannot love myself. I want to punish God -- HURT GOD -- HATE GOD -- like I want to do to myself, and obviously I can't. My innocent Puppy Girls are dead, and it is my fault! But it is also God's fault, too, because when I was unable to watch over them, at some level I had trust that God would step up to the plate instead.

God failed me as much as I failed myself. Rainbow Bridges and pretty talk of heaven aside, I will never see Anya and Tessa again in this lifetime, and their last moments are still fresh in my mind. The only "cure" is time and space. There are obviously other "blessings" in my life -- I am pregnant, after all, with a wonderful loving and supportive husband -- but I feel battered by life at the moment, and unconvinced that I am worthy of any love or future happiness. The pain is both emotional and spiritual; in addition to losing Anya and Tessa, I have also lost the trust, still at some level an innocent one, of a loving, benevolent Creator. There is no purpose that I can ever see that will justify my loss. My brain just ... stops ... at finding this loss ACCEPTABLE at any level.

Time, space and forgiveness. It appears I must simply slog through the grief, and hope there is something better than the pain I currently feel on the other side. I am not the first to experience what feels like an overwhelming loss; I will not be the last.

The world will continue to turn regardless....

[LaurenG]

1. Is it OK if I place your name in the healing group thread

I am so very, very sorry for your loss. :hug:

[IdaBriggs]

3. Yes, and thank you. nt

[H2O]

8. Some time ago

We lost a dog - not to death, but quite literally lost. My wife still blames herself for thatfrom time to time. I remember searching the entire neighborhood to see where he had gone(he was a mini red poodle, getting long in the tooth too), but I never found him.

Please keep us up to date on this, we would like to know how you are doing.

[shaniqua6392]

2. I am so sorry.

I can not even imagine what you are going through. Speechless. It is alright to hate God for now. Time will help bring you closer to Him. He does not stop bad things from happening to us. Please take care of yourself right now. You have the babies to think about. You are going to have to put your pain aside for the well being of your babies. This will not be the last time, as a mother, that you will have to put your pain on the back burner for the sake of your children. Your health is of the utmost importance right now. Your heart will heal eventually but you will never forget your Anya and Tessa. It was just a horrible accident....a tragedy. It could happen to any of us. You will see them again. You are mad at yourself and wondering why God did not intervene and prevent this terrible thing from happening to you. It is the way we all feel when something terrible happens to us. Time, space and forgiveness. You are absolutely right. Please take care of yourself as best you can right now. You are in my prayers.

[Demit]

4. That is very sad. I have two dogs and I don't know what I'd do without them.

They are almost seven years old, and I know I'll have to deal with losing them eventually, but to lose both at one time would be horrible. I feel so bad for you. The world might continue to turn, but that's not what you can think about right now. I understand.

[rolfboy]

5. so sorry for your loss

Dear Ida,
I (and my wife) go through bouts of hating God, and wishing obstacles which come before us (seemingly constantly) would finally stop. We, as well, have been trying to get pregnant for a year. We were finally successful, for the first time, in Nov. we were so excited to see 2 lines on the P-strip, that we started telling a few close friends. Naturally, just before Thanksgiving (where we were going to tell our families), the little embryo passed on. So, now we're dealing with post-miscarriage uteral infection/pain.

As I read your beautiful entry, a few thoughts were crossing my synapses. First, i thought, hmmm, how interesting that after 8 years you now seem to be on your way to a full term pregnancy with twins! And that you had twin dog children! My thoughts staggered toward: perhaps Anya and Tessa were letting you know that the Universe had put them in your care so that you could understand something about children, child-rearing, etc. And now that you have that knowledge, with human children forthcoming, the Universe has called them back so that another wonderful family can continue in the same tradition. Or, as some traditions think, the sould enters a pregnancy at about 120 days. Perhaps Anya and Tessa communicated with the two new souls growing inside you, and made some agreement.

I realize at this time in your grieving this may not be what you want to read. but i hope it may allow your eyes to see more than just hate and anger. Which brings me to the second synapse-crossing thought: we, humans, are 70% water. Perhaps you are familiar with Dr. Emoto's work regarding water memory and water crystal formation (www.hado.net, or What the BLEEP Do We Know?). Taking this theory a little further, the thoughts and feelings that our mind/body generates, directly affect all the other cells in our body (our cells as well consist of 70% water). While you seem to have adequate resources to discharge your anger and hate (DU blogging being one of them), the anger and hate molecules could be transferred through your umbilical cord to your new babies.

My hope with this short response, is that your healing can turn to love, joy, hope (even without G-d in the picture) to allow your new human babies to feel your continued and growing light.

again, i am sorry for your loss of Anya and Tessa,

with my heart, my light i pray for your new beginnings,

Robert

[Saturday]

6. I don't have any words.

(((IdaBriggs)))

[ClintonTyree]

7. You're assuming....

that there is a god to hate, a mistaken assumption, in my opinion. Do you actually think that there is a god that micromanages every little action here on earth, that it was god's (or even your) fault that the dogs broke loose and do what dog's have done for thousands of years? They ran. That's hard wired into a dog's brain: they love to run. Saying that it's your fault of even a god's fault that they ran is like saying it is your own fault if you are walking down the street and inhale some toxic vapors accidentally released from some business along your route. You're poisoned because of it. If only you hadn't breathed that time, if only god hadn't made you breathe, even though you've taken millions of breaths before that resulted in nothing more than enriching your blood cells with oxygen, THIS TIME it's completely your fault that you breathed, or god's. NOT that it's an involuntary function, a completely random set of circumstances that you had absolutely NO control over. Nope, if you hadn't breathed everything would be fine. And then you were going to hate and blame some invisible force AND yourself for something that was nothing more than a random act of fate.

Get a grip on yourself. This hate and "the blame game" offer no constructive benefit to the situation whatsoever. Grieve, as one should in a situation such as this, but don't allow hate to consume you. I think you'll see this more clearly in the coming days. Right now you're still in a state of shock and you're looking for answers. You're embarking on you own little "Bridge of San Louis Rey" here and the moral of that story was that there ARE NO answers to life's vagaries. The old saw, "shit happens", applies here. Forgive yourself and "god" if you must. Look at what this is doing to you. Is it all worth it?

I'm sincerely sorry for your loss, but self pity is NOT the way to get through this. I hope you allow yourself forgiveness and remember the good times you DID have with your babies, not what could have been.

Take care.

[Demit]

16. Nice. In the guise of sympathy you give a lecture.

You are surely a comfort to all your friends and loved ones.

[Goblinmonger]

20. So how is his post any different

than 2, 5, and others on this thread that deal with god and god' will, etc. Of course the obvious difference is atheism vs theism, yet you decided to only lecture the person that offered an atheistic viewpoint. One should only speak of god in times of grief? I find very little solace in that (of course I am an atheist so that kind of figures) and others may also feel some relief from a non-god centered point of view.

[Evoman]

23. That not the point Gob.

That post was insensitive. It matters not if its atheism centered or not....a lecture about getting over your anger is not constructive.

I gave my atheistic "point of view" down below, but I hope I wasn't a dick about it.

[Goblinmonger]

39. I would agree

that the beginning of the second paragraph begins a little harsh, but the post as a whole seems to be telling someone not to focus on hate of self or god. That it isn't constructive and won't help the process any. I don't think he was being a dick; with a couple sentences being reworded, I think the post would be quite sensitive.

[Demit]

38. Because he ridicules her in his post, and #2 and 5 don't.

That's the difference. He does it in his word choice, in saying "You're embarking on you own little "Bridge of San Louis Rey" (little?), and "shit happens"; and in his harshness of tone, in saying "Get a grip on yourself." He decides that his point of view about there being no God is more important than acknowledging Ida's grief, and that is very cold. My post was not a lecture, like his was, but an observation.

[Goblinmonger]

40. The only part I agree with

is the "get a grip on yourself" wording. Though, I think the rest of that paragraph more aptly explains what he is trying to get at. I am not a fan of the word "little" but, other than that, what is the problem with the San Louis Rey comparison?

And the poster does acknowledge the grief and is seems to be quite empathetic in the final paragraph.

[Demit]

41. I think that if you experienced a death of someone close to you, and I said

to you "Well, shit happens", you would not appreciate it. If I told you "self pity is not the way to get through this", you would not appreciate it. That's not sympathy, and it surely isn't empathy. It is almost hostile.

The 'little' is exactly what makes the allusion a form of ridicule. Whatever he means by alluding to the novel, he makes sure to trivialize and minimize her experience with the use of that word.

No, the way to comfort someone isn't to instruct, at length, how they should be feeling. This poster prides himself in a subsequent post on not offering "some sugar coated crap" to people who grieve. I think that is plain awful.

[Goblinmonger]

43. Well, looking back to the death of my father a year ago

I can honestly say that "shit happens" would have been no better nor worse than anything else. What that event taught me is that there is NOTHING you can say. It is all just blah, blah, blah. People who said really kind things to me meant no more than people saying nothing. Actually, the most profound support was just my "favorite" cousin putting her hand on my shoulder while I cried at the cemetary. No words.

I guess, in the end, we just disagree on this one. I didn't perceive the post to be as harsh as you did (though I do acknowledge areas where we agree). I'm sure we could still enjoy white russians together.

[Demit]

44. Ah, my guilty pleasure, white russians :)

Yes, there is a profound comfort in someone showing support by physically touching you. She sounds like a wise person, your cousin, to have known that words are inadequate. For me, when my dad died, it was the look on friends' and cousins' faces that let me know they truly ached for me. Both of those things help a grieving person who otherwise feels alone.

[JerseygirlCT]

51. I think the point is that the OP spoke of God

and seems to be a believer, albeit one who is angry and hurt right now. Speaking in a theistic context therefore makes perfect sense.

Lecturing on atheism in this situation is selfish. IdaBriggs is hurt and need of comfort, not lectures that only serve the needs of the lecturer.

And I'd say the same were the situation reversed and an atheist poster sought comfort. They wouldn't get a religious lecture from me at that point, either.

[ClintonTyree]

26. So a wallow in self pity is preferable?

Grieving is good, a positive step in the healing process. But hate? Hate toward an invisible entity and oneself is really going to accomplish a lot, isn't it? :eyes: And pitying people is productive and healthy as well, correct?
If the OP didn't want people's opinions then she shouldn't have tried to elicit a response. That I responded in way that you don't deem acceptable means nothing to me.
And yes, I usually AM a comfort to my friends and loved ones because they know they'll always get the truth from me, a fact based assessment of the situation, not some sugar coated crap used to salve the savaged soul. Pity isn't a beneficial response to anyone's grief. I truly am sorry for people's losses, but wallowing in self pity? Not on your life. You handle grief in the fashion you chose and I'll handle it in mine. 'Nuff said.

[Danger Mouse]

27. Opinions are like assholes...

everyone's got one, but it doesn't mean we want to see yours. The poster posted out of anger, frustration, despair, what have you.
There is a time to tell someone to snap out of it. Now's not the time. Just because she posted doesn't mean she asked for it.

[ClintonTyree]

42. I see....

your superior wisdom has certainly put me in my place. :eyes: Put me on "ignore" if you can't take opinions different than your own. And you're THE authority about when someone should be told to "snap out of it"? Thanks for that bit of information. I'll base all future decisions upon your advice. :sarcasm:

[Danger Mouse]

48. I can handle opinions different from my own...

...but I don't appreciate seeing people being nasty to someone that is grieving.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. In particular, this is not the time to be a missionary for your worldview

Show a little empathy. If you were in a similar situation (say, having accidentally caused the death of a friend), you'd be mighty angry (and rightfully so) if someone said, "I'm sorry, but if you just trust Jesus..."

It's just as insensitive coming from your direction as it would be from a fundie.

[Dorian Gray]

52. It's a stage of grief...

Simply that. What you call self pity, I call anger at herself and at God. Most psychologists recognize that as a regular stage of grief, and one she is working through by sharing her feelings with us. Telling her that those feelings are foolish (not your exact words, I know, but it seems as though many read into your post those sentiments) will not help her grieving process.

[IdaBriggs]

28. Yes, a belief in God is part of my world view, although definitely

NOT in the way you represent it. As a matter of fact, I was recently having this discussion with an atheist; it appears to me that atheism represents the "ultimate" God-Hate/God-Hurt because in the case of the atheist, it is, in essence, the "ultimate snub" to deny a higher power than Chance. I have contemplated joining your viewpoint on the basis of "punishing God" but most likely will eventually find more comfort in my own faith than in the "shit happens" viewpoint you espouse. In my beliefs, YOUR belief in God (or mine) is not necessary for there to be or not be a God Power. If you choose to acknowledge one, then that is fine; if you choose not to acknowledge one, that is fine, too. The "plan" (as I understand it) for your life continues on, and in my understanding, it doesn't matter who or how you "worship", it only matters whether or not you do your best with the tools you have.

As for your mistaken belief that it wasn't *my* fault, that is your opinion. As the responsible human being who was supposed to have my well trained dogs under control, this was *my* fault. Granted, it was an accident, but it was a PREVENTABLE accident, which has made the situation much more painful. This was not illness caused by infirmity, or something destined to happen over the course of time; this was a moment of careless behavior On My Part that caused the death of two innocent lives. While there are those who undoubtedly find the comparison between the death of "pets" to be inappropriate as a comparison point to "children," my emotional relationship was that of "mommy" to these two dogs, and thus I bring that point of view to the table when discussing the loss.

Since I posted this is the Religious/Theology forum, my expectation was that those who understood and/or respected the importance of a relationship with a higher power would participate. I have honestly found some comfort in the expressions of sympathy and support proffered by others in this thread who follow the "atheism" belief structure, but I can understand why your comments have been deemed less than kind. Thank you for your "sympathy" on my loss, but not for your somewhat insulting "self pity" comment. Working through the stages of grief during this incident (which occurred on Wednesday), including anger, is most definitely challenging, and your contempt for one of my "core beliefs" is obvious. You think I am a fool for believing in a God, which makes many of your comments insensitive at best, and insulting at worst. However, one must always remember that this is a "discussion forum" and it is open to everyone, which means one must always be prepared for comments like yours.

Now that I have "heard you" -- a belief in God is a mistaken assumption, which makes Anger towards a non-existent Higher Power the thought of a fool -- and obviously do not agree with you, I can only hope you will cease baiting people on this thread, and start one of your own on the topic of your choice.

But again, I thank you for your sympathy on my loss, even if you are not able to empathize with the anger/loss of a "trust" relationship with (in your view) a non-existent God.

[Zhade]

45. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. We can't hate what we lack belief in.

NT!

[PurpleChez]

9. With all due respect to Mr. Tyree's POV,

I am one who believes that, if there IS a god, dogs are among the greatest messengers of his/her love. I'm not a devotee of Cosmic Sky Daddy myself, but I am well open to the notion that there is something in this world beyond what I can see and touch, and I feel closest to that Whatever when I'm with my dogs. I still grieve for our Arloe (a mischievous Corgi mutt) more than any person I have ever lost, grandparents included (and no disrespect meant to them). I'm not sure who or what I pray to, but I will keep you and your babies in my thoughts.

[Kindigger]

10. Hugs to you

I lost my cat Paddy in July, and have witnessed two of my "babies" being hit by cars in the past. That was especially hard, because I had called for them, and they ran from across the street. Why I didn't learn the first time is beyond me.

This time of year is so hard. It hasn't been the same since I lost my last grandparent in 2001. My husband died in his sleep at the age of 42 on December 21, 1999, which was also our wedding anniversary. A December 24th funeral is less than festive.

I don't know what I'd do without Weezie. I bottle fed her before her eyes were open, and she is more human than many people I know :)

Take care and hug your babies tight. :hug:

[Meshuga]

11. A book that might help...

I'm so sorry for your loss. Especially when you consider your dogs to be like your children. We lost our kitty cat a month ago and we are still grieving. By the way, don't hate yourself since you didn't do anything to deserve this punishment. You should grive about your loss for as long as you need but I don't see a reason for you to hate yourself.

But in case you are interested, I read a pretty good book about the subject which is called "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" by Harold S. Kushner. He is a Reconstrucionalist rabbi who lost his own child and wrote this book. Just because it is written by a rabbi it doesn't mean it is only for Jews. A Christian friend of mine is who suggested this book. The book is wonderful.

The only bad review I saw was from a fundie who says this book is not for Christian because it is supposedly "full of blesphemy." How silly.

From reading your post I know you would identify yourself with this book and it is selling for 1 cent at amazon.com in the link for used books:

http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Happen-Good-People/dp/0380603926

Take care!

[xchrom]

12. i still grieve the loss of my ol'boy sport.

he was everything to me -- my best friend, my companion, my confidant -- and he was always with me.

it's been years since he's gone now -- but i miss him every day.

and i say this because i know how it feels to lose an animal companion you love so much.

our animals depend on us for their whole lives -- they never grow up and leave home -- we are their world.

we take care of their every need and want -- an in return they fill our lives with love and joy --

you will heal in time -- and the blessed twins you carry will bring joy to overflowing -- but you will always remember and love those two dogs.

Rainbow Bridge

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.
All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.
You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.
Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....
Author unknown...

[wtmusic]

13. Ida...

So sorry to hear about your loss. Guilt is the hardest pain of all to deal with, but just as I don't believe in God, IMO there is a limit to the responsibility we can accept for things like this.

Last week my dog got out the front door (my fault) and went screaming across the street to catch up with a dog being walked on the opposite sidewalk. He missed getting hit by a passing car by half a second. Point is--we all do our best, and when the odds catch up with us, we beat up on ourselves for not doing better.

The pain you feel is a risk we all assume by loving, and there is nothing more profound and generous on your part than the love you gave to those dogs. You will also have to assume that risk with your beautiful baby and there are no guarantees with him/her either. But the alternative is not to love, and that is, in truth, no alternative at all.

[Danger Mouse]

14. I know something of how you feel...

...we had a kitten a couple years ago that was a stray that we had taken in, and we named him Lucky. He was a very special cat, the kind that you don't often see. However, he got outside one night (due to my carelessness), and when I went outside to retrieve him, he ran from me right into the path of an oncoming car. I blamed myself for it, and still do. I think about how I could've saved him if I had done this or that.
It happened right before Christmas too. We got new kittens last in the summer of 2005, a brother and sister. The brother, Houdini, I would swear is the reincarnation of Lucky. He's full of mischief and is very impish. Mom doesn't like him though because he's very destructive =)
Anyway, I can't say how sorry I am for your loss. When I was 13-14, I lost my beloved dog, Coco, whom I had had since I was a baby. We grew up together, and not having her around was like a huge void in my life. She used to come upstairs during thunderstorms and lay by my bed because she was afraid and wanted comfort. A very, very loving dog. I even heard the sickening thump as the car struck her down.
Blamed myself for that, too.
Anyway, people will tell you about God's plan, and 'this too shall pass' and so on and so forth, but that isn't much comfort right now. You're angry, and sad, and confused, and you mayhap want answers where there are none.
Just...don't beat up on yourself too hard. It makes it more painful for you, and for those that love you, when you do this to yourself.
I know, cause when I've done that in the past, I've seen as well the visible (negative) effect it has on those that love me. It's painful for them.
Just hang in there. You're in my prayers and my thoughts. My door's always open. Take care, alright? :hug:

[puebloknot]

15. A story for you, Ida Briggs.

You may think me a bit loony when you read this, but I hope it will give you some comfort.

Twelve years ago, I had a little Lhasa Apso/Poodle named Curly. He came to live with me because my daughter wanted a Lhasa and I couldn't afford a pure bred one. So I looked in the local throw-away paper and saw an ad:

"Washer and dryer, recliner chair, Lhasa Apso, couch and chair..."

I drove to the owner's house, plunked down $50 in cash, and brought home Sugar, a pure Lhasa. The seller, a lawyer (there's a clue there) said, as I drove away: "Let us know if she ever has any puppies." Dumb me, I didn't think to look. When I got her home, there were all the signs. She was going to be a mother. Five weeks later, seven little black and white puppies came to live with us.

We adopted out all but one, Curly.

When Curly was about ten, I decided to get a German Shepherd for protection because there had been a scary incident in our neighborhood. Home with us came Heinrich (Henry), who was, after a little annoyance on the part of Curly, our big love. He and Curly became best friends.

We were in Santa Fe when we got Henry. We moved back to Los Angeles, to the top of a hill where there had been six nuclear reactors at an aerospace company in the 1960s. Curly was already pretty old, suffering with congestive heart failure. We had to put him to sleep. I'd never done that with a dog before, and it was so painful, and I felt horribly guilty, even though it was the right thing to do for *him*, to end his suffering.

Five months later, Henry developed a serious illness. The vet kept saying he was acting as if he had been poisoned. Some horses died in that same contaminated area. They told me nothing could save him. I sat in the floor with him and held him as the vet administered the fatal injection. He turned and gave me the most *meaningful* look as he took his last breath.

I thought I was going to die. I kept reliving the moment when I made the decision to "kill" my dog, wishing I could have that time back and maybe make a different decision. I just could not get over losing two dogs, and especially having to put Henry down at only six years of age.

Right after Henry died, I had a compelling dream: I entered a room and there was Henry, with his front end projecting out of a cloud, his derriere covered up by the cloud. His body language showed me he was wagging his whole back end in joy at seeing me. In the corner was Curly. A big picture frame suddenly appeared and both dogs came around and stepped into it (the spotlight). Henry, the German Shepherd, was wearing a fur coat that looked just like Curly's black and white Lhasa/Poodle fur coat! Both of them were smiling at me. Really! :)

Henry told me not to be sad, that he was coming back to live with us again, after we moved back to Santa Fe and had a yard for him. He told me his name would be Max the next time around.

Six dogless years went by while my daughter was in art school in California. When we returned to Santa Fe, I went out one day to buy a couch and chair, but dropped by the breeder's place where I got Henry a few years before, and he *just happened* to have the last two German Shepherd puppies in a litter. Seven-weeks-old, *already-named* Max and Meg came home to live with us that day.

It was a while before we had anything to sit in but lawn chairs because I spent the couch money on Max and Meg. But we had fur friends in great abundance. We have them still.

That dream? I swear it was a visitation! :)

You're only guilty of being human, and your dogs live on, even if it's only in your heart. I'll confess here that I don't think it's only in your heart, but don't tell anyone because that might make people think I'm irrational or something. And you don't want to get your name associated with someone who tells fantastic tales like this.

It's strange how much it hurts to lose our pets. I've felt guilty because I got over my father's death a lot faster than I got over losing Henry. I suppose it's because we feel so responsible for pets, and we know our relatives have to move on to another realm, and we can't control that.

You aren't being punished. You don't deserve punishment, you only deserve the incredible joy you're going to have with those babies. Emotions run high when motherhood is about to pay a visit. It's all in the scheme of things. Anyone who can grieve as you are for those dogs is clearly good mother, good person material!

Much love!

Judy Barrett

[driver8]

18. That is a beautiful story...

We had to put our Border Collie, Cody, to sleep last summer. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do.

This past month and a half I have been dealing with some issues regarding my health and I have been kind of "down in the dumps." This past week, Cody was in my dreams two nights in a row. I was telling my wife about this and she said that Cody was visiting me to let me know that everything would be alright.

I like to think that Cody is still looking out for me...

[peacetalksforall]

17. The theme I see running through your story is strength and

your gratitude. You grew strong after your early life, you gained strength from loving, You need strength again for all the love that is still around you and the physical care need to come.

You shared your story so beautifully. Perhaps you should keep on writing and see where it takes you.

You've been gifted many ways.

Thanks for posting.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

19. The loss is not ever acceptable, and anyone who will tell you so is lying.

:hug:

That was part of the reason why I couldn't bear what I saw as the stupidity of organized religion--people telling me that things that happened were happening for a good reason, and that some guy up in the sky really DID love me--he just had a funny way of showing it, apparently.

No, I left that, and I don't regret it, but I'm not here to "preach" anything to you. The only thing I can suggest is that you find away to see into your heart again, even if it takes years. Maybe you can reconcile, and find yourself still believing. Maybe you can't. Whatever happens, it will take time to deal with, and it will take you--only you. Nobody else can tell you what you believe or don't believe, so don't let other people say such things, even when they mean only good.

Eventually you will keep moving ahead with more purpose, but humans don't forget a loss, and time does not make a loss acceptable. Any deaths, even those of the oldest people who have led the fullest lives, are, at some level, agonizing--I think that's just the nature of death. What's key is to keep finding reasons to live. Why? I don't know exactly--nobody does--but I think that life is just life, and death is not something to welcome or to fear; it just is. Besides, what would you, or anyone else, do when dead? Much better to stay alive, even if right now it would only be for your human children.

So, I guess what I'm getting at in this long bit of bloviation is that it's all right to be angry. You can and probably should use this as a chance to reexamine what you believe, and remember--whatever you decide is all right. You can use this as an opportunity to forge ahead, try something soothing and spiritual for you--try painting, try writing, try music, try meditation, try arts and crafts, try building, whatever. Whatever gets you through the day and helps you to rage and grieve and come to a decision about what's next.

I think what I just wrote was useless, but I really did try.

:hug:

Take care of yourself, and decide what, no matter how menial, it is that you're going to live for, at least for now.

:hug:

[L A Woman]

21. really sorry for your loss...

I have felt the pain of losing a pet and I understand it, but you have the added guilt to make it all the worse. Time is the only thing that will help and in the end you will be an even more compassionate person.

[Evoman]

22. Oh man, thats rough...you just reminded me of when my little dog passed away.

Unlike yours, mine lived to a ripe old age...and he became incontinent and extremely athritic. We had to put him down to ease his suffering...and I stood there and watched while the vet did it. I was crushed. I can't say I blame myself, since I understood the reality of the situation...but this was the dog I've had since I was 7 years old.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Your going to feel anger for awhile, maybe forever. Look up my thread in this forum about my cousin. She was 25 years old when she died, and she died because her doctor a was shithead, who told her she needed to lose weight and thats why she was feeling bad. It wasn't. I was furious for a long time...and I'm a person who NEVER gets furious.

In many ways, I'm luckier than you because I don't believe in god. I believe that the world is what the world is....shit just happens, y'know? And stories like your, and experiences like mine, just reinforces my feelings.

If you ever need to talk, you can PM me.

[beam me up scottie]

24. I am so very sorry for your loss, Ida.

I am still grieving for my thirteen year old boy Cecil, who I held in my arms for the last time as the vet, who was crying as hard as I was, injected the second drug into his iv.

I too raised him from a baby.

He adored me, he lived for me.

I was not worthy of his love. How could I be? Their love is unconditional.

I do not believe in a god, so I can't know what it's like to feel as though you've been betrayed by him, but I do understand the blame you've place squarely on your own shoulders and it doesn't belong there.

It was an accident, nothing more. Your dogs wouldn't blame you, you know.

You saved them, they had a wonderful life with you, no matter how short it was. Millions of cats and dogs die abused, unloved and unwanted every year.

Your babies were very fortunate to have been loved by you.

[SPKrazy]

30. I'm Sorry For Both Of Your Losses

I had to put a 13 year old dog down a couple of years ago. It was very sad. I then buried him where other family dogs had been buried.

I watched the life bleed out of him and it made me very sad, but I'd also watched the quality of life leave him for the past year before this so I felt only somewhat comforted by that.

I really had no thoughts of God or no God in this issue in life. Dogs die. It's sad when they are our pets.

I don't mean to sound callous here. I hurt as my dog was injected and I held him to comfort him.

:hug: :hug: to both of you Ida and BMUS

[beam me up scottie]

31. Thank you.

I had Cecil cremated. I'm not sure why except I think it's because I know I'll leave here and I don't want to leave him behind.

[SPKrazy]

32. How Ya Doing On Your Goal Of Getting Back To Vermont?

I know it drives you insane being where you are!

Hang in there I'm sure you aren't as alone as you think there!

:pals:

[beam me up scottie]

33. Still trying to save.

I have friends who will let me stay with them, but I don't want to impose on them any longer than I have to.

And you're right, I've discovered two more closet atheists at work, two engineers they just hired!

The owner would be upset if he knew, his goal is to create the ultimate "christian workplace".

[SPKrazy]

34. The "Ultimate Christian Workplace"

WTF is that?

we crucify anyone that isn't a believer?

I don't get it anymore

I've decided I don't belong to Christianity as it exists in this world anymore.

Don't know what that makes me really. A Theist?

Don't know that I have a godhead to worship though.

My ideas of spirit have taken some interesting turns lately.

:pals:

[beam me up scottie]

35. Google it if you have the stomach.

There are several websites that teach entrepreneurs how to use their businesses to pimp for Jesus.

Legally.



Would you consider yourself a deist?

I've always thought that liberal christianity was morphing into something else.

Maybe it just didn't morph fast enough to keep up with you.

[SPKrazy]

36. Maybe A Really Cynical Deist?

LOL

probably more along those lines I suppose.

;)

[beam me up scottie]

37. There's a lot of choices if you're searching for a better fit.

It's fascinating, really. Maybe you should try attending a UU church, I've heard wonderful things about them.

[SPKrazy]

47. Honestly I Don't Know What I'm Looking For

I've had a lot of disillusionment lately.

I appreciate your support!

Thanks

:hug:

[Dorian Gray]

53. Very beautifully said, BMUS

and I agree with her.

Your dogs were very fortunate to have you in their lives. You are not responsible for their deaths. It's a horrible thing to go through, and I understand the inclination to blame yourself, but you are the only one placing the blame on own shoulders.

You have many blessings, and soon you will be able to appreciate them. Time will heal all things, and you have some wonderful happiness coming your way.

[Az]

25. The anger will pass

Time does in fact heal such wounds. In time you will hold to the loving memories and the pain will subside. You will alway carry a part of them with you in your heart.

You are not at fault. You did not wish for this to happen. You did not choose for this to happen. You are going to have to forgive yourself. To make amends keep their memory alive.

[Vox Acerbus]

29. You are still, and constantly, within my thoughts...

Your feelings toward God resonate so clearly with me. I have been there.

I know that you are a good, kind soul. I hope you learn to love yourself again, and soon. My heart aches to see you experience pain I know so intimately.

My heart goes out to you. As the world continues to turn, I sincerely hope you heal. I so well know these throes of sadness, grief, anger and fury. Please hang in there and know that from a distance, I am sending all the loving and forgiveness vibes I can your way.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. It's all right to be angry at God, and I hope that you'll some day

get some perspective and stop blaming yourself.

People in the early stages of grief--whether over the death of a beloved person or animal, the end of a relationship, the loss of physical health, the loss of livelihood--are not always rational, and they obsess over what might have been. I've been there, and I've recently seen some friends go through periods of scary craziness when they were grieving.

But one day you will understand that what happened to your pets is NOT your fault in the sense that you would never have harmed them willingly. (I'm inclined to attribute blame only when a person was malicious or deliberately negligent) You were merely distracted, as we all are distracted at times, and mostly nothing bad happens, but when it does...well, then we tend to beat ourselves up about it.

You sound like a thoughtful and loving person, and I bet that many GOOD things have come from your life. Your life is more than that one tragic episode. Perhaps when you are past the rawest stage of grief, you can memorialize your Puppy Girls by doing something for some animals in need.

In the meantime, :hug:

[JerseygirlCT]

50. I'm sorry for your loss, and for your pain.

Perhaps you will, with time, be able to forgive yourself. Punishing yourself won't bring them back, of course. And being kind to yourself is good for your babies, as well.

I hope you find peace.

[JerseygirlCT]

54. Kicking this back up to ask how IdaBriggs is feeling today?

I've been thinking about you, hoping you're on the path to healing.

[Branjor]

55. Ida...

What a terrible thing to have happened.

I am so, so sorry.

Goddess bless you and Anya and Tessa.

[Jo March]

56. Ida, check your PM. nt

[raccoon]

57. Sorry for your loss.

Try not to beat yourself up too much. I lost a cat I dearly loved about 20 years ago. I felt that it was my fault and beat myself up a lot over it. I think in my case it was a way of holding on. (This went on for a long time.)