ACTION: Notify *Canadian* Media re: Madsen Story !

[crispini]

(edit: Thanks to Vote4Kerry over on this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x5684#5712-- thought it deserved its own thread)

A GREAT idea from jbalazs's diary over at Kos:

"I am convinced that if the Canadian media became aware of Mr. Madsen's allegations, they would be all over this story. The Canadian media is not a media lapdog for Bush, we tend to have no qualms about holding people accountable.

As Canada "appears" complicit in this fraud (per evidence cited in Madsen's second article), I believe we have an opening here for full media coverage of this story (albeit through Canadian news organizations initially.)

But I need all Kossacks to participate in the effort. A real bonus to having CBC (for example) cover this story is that they don't get the volume of e-mails that US media outlets get. Therefore, if a massive number of e-mails on this subject came in to them, they would stand up and take notice."

(more)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/27/11320/982

Ok, I'm SO gonna do this! Who's in?

He's found one email for CBC: [e-mail] -- can anyone help find other emails?

[geo]

1. So smart it hurts... let's do this thing!

I'll work up a sample letter if anyone needs, or if anyone else wants to as well, great. Let's be loud! I can't imagine how inspiring that would be for Canadian media to know that we are asking them to come be OUR media! If I were in a newsroom up there I would have a field day with this! :) :) :) - G

[geo]

47. HERE is WHY....

Hi all,

There seems to be some doubt this is a good idea, but it is and here is why. We have a truckload of election fraud, suppression, machine problems, rowdy partisan officials, hypocracy from the President and his party regarding the Ukraine Presidential election, etc., and all we were missing was a reason to get it on Canadian tekevision screens for more than a fraction of a second.

This puts the story in their backyard. They can lead with the "conspiracy is coming to Toronto" lead if they wish, but they can backfill with plenty of good, solid data.

Please read my sample letter (and the suggestion below) and let's take this opportunity to get this story on their TVs. :)

Make better sense? This has little to do with Madsen. If he is writing giberish, let the Canadian media give him hell for it. In the meantime, let's show them there is a story here worth covering.

The Madsen piece is the "in." Where it goes from there depends on how Canadians react to the news the US Presidential election, and "4 more years" of Mr. Bush and his policies are in question. (BTW, I don't think they care for him much in general.) Also, keep in mind that this is a country that has invited him to visit in the next few days and has had at least one group inform the Prime Minister that they would be either obligated to arrest Mr. Bush for war crimes if he came without the Prime Minister's invite, or try the Prime Minister for aiding a war criminal if he does. The story of Mr. Bush's possible illegitamacy will surely go a long way up there; at least better than down here.

Hope that makes sense. :)

Warmly,

George

[thephaseshift]

2. Oh come on...!

What's the point of sending a nutty story to the Canadians, eh? Check out Olbermann's thoughts on it...it's no doubt a conspiracy theory that holds no water. Can we concentrate on the stories for which there's actual evidence, please? Forget Madsen, that's my suggestion. If his theory is correct it'll come out one way or another - our credibility here is shaky enough without this sort of stuff spreading around like wildfire.
-a head-shaking Canadian

[clydefrand]

3. I agree with you completely.

When we begin circulating information that isn't credible, we'll be the laughing stocks. We don't need that at all.

[Pepper32]

7. I'm not so sure it will just "come out one way or another"...

If this story is true, I doubt very seriously it will make MSM.

Nothing true about 9-11 has...

Nothing sufficient has come out in MSM about another stolen election either.

[Joe Chi Minh]

8. If Madsen is bona fide,

as I've taken him to be - impressive accreditations and hard data which can be checked out by people with the right kind of very technical expertise in that field - maybe the people I'd taken for trolls are right - Duers should proceed with caution, as it must surely come out, before long, anyway.

If they are trolls though, by suggesting a prudent approach, rather than daring to rubbish it outright, as they would doubtless have liked to do - well, they'll have done DUers a favour. I wonder what kind of strategy Mr Madsen has in mind regarding its exposure.

Still it worries me to see trolls trying to put a damper on it. It does make me suspect that you're on the right track, Crispini.

[rumpel]

62. Kerry exposed the BCCI

probably you know this already...

Immediately, Kerry met with opposition from power-players in Washington. Everyone - literally everyone, from both parties, including President George H.W. Bush, whose son George W. had enjoyed BCCI financing for one of his doomed oil businesses - pressured Kerry to back off. Instead, Kerry took the information he had gathered and gave it to New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau. Morgenthau agreed to begin a criminal investigation into BCCI. By 1991, the investigation had blown up what Morgenthau described at the time as "one of the biggest criminal enterprises in world history."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/093004A.shtml

[crispini]

9. Have you read the SECOND Madsen story? Thoughts?

[Joe Chi Minh]

25. I skimmed through it,

but was inclined to put my trust in him, before, so didn't pay too much attention to it. It did seem to cause a troll meltdown, too, which only tended to confirm my thoughts.

Anyway, I'll try and find it again, though I doubt if my thoughts on the technical aspects of it would be of any value at all. I'm relying on Madsen and you people to work out the best way forward.

[NVMojo]

68. the connections made in the second story about BCCI

made me wonder who exactly helped this info get to Madsen...hint, hint.

Kerry has balls and has probably learned quite a bit from his BCCI exposing days....

Go Kerry!!!

[rosyhue]

91. I think it's legit

contrary to what so many say here (not knocking them) he provides us with specifics. No, his sources have yet to be named but these things take time. He offers a plausible scenerio in so far as the Ohio "terror scare."

[The Flaming Red Head]

13. The Canadian media is more familiar with hacked elections

than the US media and I think they would be more inclined to give it a look.

[pretzel4gore]

44. please don't over estimate the canadian media

they've generally followed the cnn/fox leads...also, fox 'news' is being allowed into canada, and the canadian media say nothing....nothing, although they have been relentlessly hammered by canadian nazipoos and must realize they'll be pushed further into outright liar territory if fox is successful (which billions of $ will ensure)

[ailsagirl]

56. I have not found that necessarily to be the case

One newspaper, in fact, The Toronto Star, has been very vocal about its disapproval of Dub.

The Canadian newspapers are not owned by conservatives, the way ours are.

[ailsagirl]

64. In fact, here's an article by The Toronto Star

where Dub is put down by the Canadian government. The description of our relationship with them is "poisonous."

Billions at stake in trade disputes
President's visit chance to clear air
Recent relations called `poisonous'

RICK WESTHEAD
BUSINESS REPORTER

OTTAWA—Don't expect U.S. President George W. Bush to settle any of the rancorous trade battles being waged between Canada and the United States after he arrives here on Tuesday.

After all, the recent "poisonous" relationship between the Prime Minister's Office and the White House may have been strained further this week when Canada said it might impose retaliatory duties on U.S. imports for the first time since 1988.

=snip=

The president hasn't gone to bat for Canada for years. While Jean Chrétien and Bill Clinton enjoyed a collegial relationship, the former Canadian prime minister didn't make it a priority to bolster ties with Bush's current administration, and dashed any chance to improve relations when he strongly criticized the U.S. government's decision to invade Iraq.

"The relationship has been poisonous; it makes it difficult to do business on a government-to-government basis," said Bill Dymond, a former Canadian trade representative who's now a professor at Carleton University. "It doesn't help when your staff calls the president a `bastard' or a `moron.'"

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1101510611089&call_page=TS_Business&call_pageid=968350072197&call_pagepath=Business/News&pubid=968163964505&StarSource=email&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes

[buzzard]

73. I am a Canadian

I think you will find much more negative press regarding Bush in our media. In fact I can't remember seeing any flattering articles and I scan the major papers regularly. Most of the editorials are decisively anti Bush. PS I love reading the posts here. I am one Canadian who was stunned to see Bush win and I just have to believe given Kerry's past successes, (though not always in the spotlight) he will prevail again.

[ailsagirl]

79. Absolutely-- how refreshing it is to have honest media in

Canada. They've always told it like it is.

[buzzard]

66. How is the Canadian media more familiar with hacked elections.

[roguevalley]

16. thephaseshfi: thank you for your kind thoughts. I wish I had your

prescience.

[NVMojo]

67. and the freepers go rolling along! Like lemmings....

[wtmusic]

4. Trust in Keith

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240

[Shalom]

43. TRUST IN NO ONE: Olbermann helpful, NOT INFALLIBLE

Olbermann has been extraordinarily helpful, and deserves lots of credit. But he is not infallible. In discounting Madsen article, he conceds that:

"After Iran-Contra, nobody can discount the theoretical possibility of any international conspiracy to commit… well, to commit anything."

He then goes on to debunk Madsen. He never mentions that Madsen provides all the info on a money transaction that can either be verified or shot down.

Madsen's approach is very useful, since it points us (for almost the first time) in the direction that if fraud has occured, then:

1. It must be financed
2. It must be organized
3. It must be staffed

Let's keep throwing dirt at Bushitler, conspiracy or not, fact or fiction: he's so filthy dirty, it's got to be for a good cause.

[NVMojo]

69. Shalom, I appreciate your thoughts here. Thanks!

[wtmusic]

74. It's going to be checked out

but throwing non-conspiratorial, fictional dirt at Bushitler is not only a waste of time, it's counterproductive.

No. Absolutely not. If you want to remain a minority in this country, confirm the 'wacko liberal' label, and guarantee a Republican landslide in 2008, just keep it up :eyes:

[Paligal]

5. Focus on FACTS

People, please don't be hypocrites. We ask the media to be fair and not report BS and Swift Boat sh*t, why on earth would you guys be pushing a story which has no corroborating evidence or proof into the mainstream? Do you guys really want to discredit our WHOLE movement by pushing stories that they can and will poke holes in and then just dismiss our whole election fraud movement? What is the matter with you? THINK! Madsen uses vagueries all over the place. For all I know, he is a republican trying to get us to latch on to this unsubstantiated story in order to debunk us later.

Be intelligent. Let this story rest until it has real, verifiable merit.

[merh]

10. Let the investigative journalists in Canada investigate it, if they

find it has subsance, then they can report it. What the f*ck is wrong with that? I don't get all the naysayers saying that stories, posts, threads, research "like this" hurt our cause. How the f do they hurt our cause?

[Pepper32]

14. I'm wondering the same thing.

What are we going to do, pass up every solid lead because it isn't laid out (with all the pieces) in front of us, with a nice bow on top? Truth is stranger than fiction. I doubt if the truth of this election fraud will make sense to any SANE law abiding citizen. I am skeptical about the story also but it does have leads that can be checked out.

[crispini]

11. A check serial number is a FACT

which can be followed up on. Not by me, of course, but by a real journalist.

[rosyhue]

31. absolutely crispini - a check serial number IS a fact

which could be followed up by an authentic investigative reporter

he also gives the bank name & number

vague? not really

[NVMojo]

70. ouch, just found another freeper trying to crawl up our asses!!!

[rosyhue]

84. I have no desire to crawl up your ass

as my hunch is it's huge and I'd never get back out.

Please refrain from attacking my posts.
I am not a freeper; I have a genuine interest in election fraud like everyone else here and am learning as I go along.

If you have a problem with someone, address it rationally instead of sounding like a crude 12 year old.

Do not respond. Thank you.

[IAMREALITY]

27. If you Actually Knew Better

You would actually already know that Madsen is an extremely well established and respected journalist.

[crispini]

6. Olbermann's blog, IMO, is good about the FIRST article,

but he doesn't appear to have read the SECOND Madsen article:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

In which Madsen writes:

"In fact, the check for $29.6 million, which is marked "Not to exceed fifty million dollars," is drawn on the Laurentian Bank of Canada's Toronto branch. Its serial number is 317675450 3 and the bank number is 23-97/1020. The bank instrument is issued by Integrated Payment Systems, Inc. of Englewood, Colorado, and Bank One, NA, Denver, Colorado."

Seems to me that would be enough concrete evidence for a journalist to follow up on, and, seems to me that a CANADIAN journalist would be a natural for this tidbit of info as he/she 1) would not be part of the American SCLM and 2) would be, in, well, Canada, eh? Toronto is there, eh? and 3) possibly would be of a more investigative bent than our American lapdogs (see #1)

:shrug: I dunno, it seems to hold water for ME.

and the guy who WROTE the blog over at Kos is a Canadian. Did you *read* the blog? And the second Madsen story?

(oops, meant to reply to #2, but I guess it could apply to any naysayers above. I repeat -- have you read the SECOND Madsen story?) It's got more specifics...

[Paligal]

17. What does a cancelled check to an investment firm prove?

It simply proves that an investment firm received a check for 29 million dollars. That seems fairly normal, them being an INVESTMENT FIRM. That doesn't prove fraud at all. That's absurd.

And to the question, what's wrong with sending the story out and why does it harm us-

Suppose they do look into the story and find the same lack of evidence. Wasted effort on their part. They are annoyed with us for giving them an unreliable tip. Then, say, we send them the Cybernet unreliable tip. How likely do you think they will be to even LOOK at a story we send them the next time? They will say, "Oh, election fraud people are a bunch of conspiracy theorists. They just have a bunch of uncorroborated BS." I take it personal when stories like this are spread, because I am working hard to convince people to look at this issue, and already, I have heard people debunking my whole standpoint because of wacky conspiracy theories under the same heading. Why do you think Bev Harris isn't screaming conspiracy theories. She is intelligent. She is GATHERING EVIDENCE before going public. She sees the bigger picture, which, apparently, many on this forum do not. We must come armed with irrefutable evidence, or we will be dismissed and debunked, and they will NOT come back to us. Game over, no second chance. We will be branded crackpots and not listened to again.

[crispini]

20. Of course it doesn't PROVE anything.

It's a concrete place to start.

I'm not an investigative journalist. I can't do any kind of independent research. But I can, and DO, frequently send journalists ideas and thoughts, in a non-tin-foilly sort of way. IMO, sending someone a note that says, "Hey, this is kind of interesting, it might be worth looking into" does no harm and might do something to get the story out there.

Look, I didn't email ANYBODY -- not even Olbermann -- about the first Madsen story, because I thought was too weird. The SECOND story, however, *does* at least have the concrete merit of the check number.

A place to start.

[IAMREALITY]

29. Yeah,

Cause they've opened the door so wide for us already. They are all just running to our arms with their hands outstretched just waiting for us to hand over anything credible, but just this one time LOL.

Got news for ya, the doors are already closed. We have to break them down. A Flood of emails day after day with different breaking stories each day are the only things we can do to try to break through. Sure this story isn't the strongest thing goin yet, but as per KO's blog, I haven't seen anyone on DU screaming out "hey, this is totttttaly real guys, I know it, It is fact, send it to the MSM as fact!". No one here is acting that looney, they are handling it responsibly, with optimistic caution, and when sent to an outside media source is done so with the same caution and tone of "hey, check this out, could this be real?". That is perfectly fine and I don't know what you're so scared of since the situation isn't even a smidgin as dramatic as ya make it.

:hi:

[Joe Chi Minh]

33. "They are

annoyed with us for giving them an unreliable tip. Then, say, we send them the Cybernet unreliable tip. How likely do you think they will be to even LOOK at a story we send them the next time?"

So... you think the mainstream media been falling over themselves to consider the mountain of evidence, nay, proof of fraud that has accrued up to now, do you. It will be a sad day for the Democrats if they rely on today's mainstream media to be open to proof of ubiquitous fraud.

"....They will say, 'Oh, election fraud people are a bunch of conspiracy theorists".

If they understood the concept of "good faith", Rather's error would have been seen for what it was - a cynical distraction, a molehill conveniently made into a mountain. You must be truly mentally deficient, if you believe they are able to distinguish between massive proven fraud and "conspiracy theories". You have to want to believe the truth. Is that really something you have an interest in? You have a strange way of showing it, since you seem anxious to even discourage further investigation into the allegation.

I've just had another look at it, Crispini. You have to wonder - quite apart from the freeper meltdown - why if the allegation was suspect, Madsen would give such a wealth of technical, verifiable details. Surely, that would not be the modus operandi of a fraudster.

[Alizaryn]

88. That nags at me also

I agree KCabot, I question some of the holes in the article too BUT I cannot seem to shake the thought that releasing an article this explosive without it being born from some sort of reality would be suicidal to one's career. It just does not make sense that he would do that. He is definately a committed, opinionated, passionate writer from what I've read of his work.

[geo]

18. I noticed as well and wrote Countdown within five minutes

of his blog being posted. He's probably having to check this out a little more now. :) -G

[lthuedk]

12. Let Canadian media decide. We gave it to Olbermann!

[geo]

15. SAMPLE LETTER....

Recommend we leave names and city/state locations as well. At least first name and the state if you don't want to give it out. It shows we are serious. :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Dear member of the Canadian media,

I am writing from the United States asking you to review the following articles related to allegation of voter fraud in our recent President election. Accounts of voter fraud, suppression, malfunctioning machines, and a lack of auditability have cast a disturbing shadow over the outcome of the election. Our media has been on virtual shutdown, failing to report in a timely or substantial manner on incidents as germane to the topic as the requested recount of Ohio by third party candidates, poll records showing hundreds of lost votes per precinct being placed in the trash by elections officials in Volusia County Florida, widespread machine malfunctions causing re-votes in North Carolina, more votes than voters in the posted Wyoming results, fraud investigations in several states, etc. Only one mainstream media show has been faithfully reporting the developments: Countdown with Keith Obermann on MSNBC.

The help of the Canadian media could not be more critical than it is today. There are literally well over 30,000 reported incidents of voting irregularities, and some are quite substantial. Despite the insistence of the main stream media and the majority of those it covers, the end result is in question; Mr. Bush may not have won the vote but for these tactics which when uncovered are found to have skewed the vote in his favor.

The story gets more disturbing. Many “conspiracy theories” have surfaced in internet discussion forums, but a recent report is starting to have a ring of truth, and places a respectable part of the story within the Canadian border, specifically Toronto.

The following links allege a $29,000,000 payoff to operatives hired to carry out a vote fraud scenario. While this was originally met with skepticism by many of us, it had a certain ring of truth so we (some of us in an internet discussion forum called democraticunderground.com) e-mailed the author and asked for a more complete follow-up as soon as possible. He e-mailed back, and posted the follow-up piece.

Also worth noting: the author, while being very left thinking, is well respected for his investigative pieces, has worked with the F.B.I. and Naval Intelligence, and has served on Ivy League academic panels as an expert on intelligence issues.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html

We kindly ask that you do for the world what our U.S. media will not: investigate this. The Madsen article in particular is very disturbing if correct, and brings the story within the Canadian border into one of its most populous cities.

Many of us lose sleep at night thinking that our democracy was just pulled from under our feet. No matter what one thinks of Mr. Bush and his policies, an election that was not fair, accurate or transparent should be a huge warning sign.

Ironically, we are covering the Ukraine Presidential election at length. Go figure.

Thank you in advance for your time in review. We appreciate any help your organization can be in bringing these facts to light.

Warmly,

George *****
Diamond Bar, CA

[crispini]

22. Mmm, if I may add a bit of constructive criticism,

I'd start off with the Canadian content. So to speak. That will hook them right away.

Also.... dude, I'd cut it down some. These media types are busy busy folks. Send 'em a couple of paragraphs, that'll be MORE than enough.

edited to add--- all just IMHO of course! It's a very good letter, I don't mean to sound nit-picky or rude! :)

[geo]

28. not nit picky at all...

I was thinking of trimming it, but a good press release is about the same length. Also, forgot to mention, I addressed the Canadian element of the story in the subject bar when I sent.. they can scan for the Canadian content if the top stuff doesn't fascinate. :) - G

My subject line was "U.S. Election Fraud Info Related To Canada...."

[Shalom]

46. Way to Go! Stick It to Bushitler! He's Toast

Good job, George...

Let's move on this quickly....the discovery of every great scandal has started with a trickle of information, which soon became a flood.

The Candadians are not idiots, unlike the Reich wing Yahoos from the
Confederates States of America.

It's a good thing for Bushitler that he has discovered that Christ in his corner, as he is about to experience a "Political Passion".

[rdmccur]

58. Sounds good to me!

n/t

[geo]

19. More E-Mail addresses? I'll send to 'em all...

I'm very for this idea, especially if we hedge our bets by sending an overall "help our media is failing" message (please see my sample letter for an example). I just don't have the time to dig up all the addresses. Anyone have more e-mail addresses for our friends in the Candian media? :) -G

[Pepper32]

21. I found some email addresses for Canadian media...

perhaps these can help... (I haven't verified any of these)

[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

MORE....
http://www.canlaw.com/media/emailed.htm

[Pepper32]

23. Email addresses for Ontario Media

...with mailing addresses also (not verified personally)

http://dawn.thot.net/ontario_media.html

[crispini]

24. Thanks Pepper32!

Now I need to go write my letter....:D

[Pepper32]

26. YW Crispini! n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

36. I've added

this to an earlier post of mine, crispini, but post it here, as you might not notice the addendum.

"I've just had another look at it. You have to wonder - quite apart from the freeper meltdown - why if the allegation was suspect, Madsen would give such a wealth of technical, verifiable details. Surely, that would not be the modus operandi of a fraudster".

[geo]

37. not having much luck with this list....

it seems to be kicking back just about everything I sent. bummer... any others addresses? :) - G

[Pepper32]

49. Hmm... try here

http://www.canlaw.com/media/media.htm
They list the individual websites here, so you can get the contact info straight from the source.

[Pepper32]

50. BTW....

I sent emails to everyone one on the first set of Canadian emails I posted and only one was undeliverable so far:

[e-mail] on Sat, 27 Nov 2004 18:16:58 -0500
    The recipient name is not recognized



I know for a fact my email reached at least one, I received this reply:

From: [e-mail]
To: @aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)



Thanks for your message! We love to hear from our listeners. Your
message has been posted to the staff, including of course, Barbara and
Mary Lou.

If you require a reply to a specific question, rest assured that you'll
be hearing from us soon.

Tapes of the program can be ordered by calling 1-800-363-1530.
Unfortunately, we no longer have transcripts available.

Thanks again for writing,

The As It Happens crew

UPDATE TWO MORE BOUNCED:
The following address(es) failed:

[e-mail]
unknown account [e-mail]
[e-mail]
unknown account [e-mail]

[joevoter]

30. Very bad idea

This is a very bad idea until there is more fact to the story. Olberman on MSNBC has a good description of how this story must be viewed. A better idea is to send them links to current legitimate action efforts regarding exposing election fraud. "Americans rise up against election fraud"

Link to Olberman:
<http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/>

Link to action efforts
<http://www.fugw.org>

[IAMREALITY]

32. Someone said it on the other KO thread,

But why are all these almost first time posters poppin up trying to dictate how we should do things? It is really starting to get scary around here, like I have no idea who to trust anymore.

Crispini/Vote4Kerry, This is a brilliant idea, and one of the best to come from DU in a bit now (one man's opinion). We need to do it correctly of course, but I like the creativity and approach!!

[joevoter]

34. This will be a great idea when the time is right

This will be a great idea when the time is right. The criticism that the main stream media is leveling at us (yes I say us because I am not a first time poster) is that we tend to spin conspiracy before focusing on legitimized information. Are you saying not to trust Bev? or the League of Women Voters? I suggest sending information to international outlets showing people protesting in the streets (not shown on US TV), testimony of voter disenfranchisement, and legal actions being launched. links to all of these things can be found on <http://www.fugw.org>.

Remember, there are freepers here that want to get us to follow wild goose chases to make us look stupid. If the Madsen story turns out to be true then great. An investigation will verify that.

[IAMREALITY]

35. Oh ok, now I get it.

Ulterior Motives to push a website. Say no more, I understand your posts much better now.....

:eyes:

[joevoter]

40. do you find the site usefull or not

I and many others here in Southern Oregon have spent three weeks organizing people, getting the word out, and organizing links on this site. We get nothing for it. We hope to get our vote back. My question to you is: is your ego getting in the way of your effort to help the cause? I don't give a shit if you go to this site or some other to get the information. The intention of this site is to provide people a quick way to get to what they want. If you have some links that you want on the site then offer them. If you don't like the content of the site then tell us what is wrong with it.

[IAMREALITY]

42. See, That's what I mean.

Don't get so emotional. Even your response above only served a purpose to praise your website. Not sure it's MY ego that's getting in the way of anything.

For the record, we could use as many sites as possible, but truth be told I wasn't a big fan of that one. Several DU'rs have posted links to far better compilations, and Eloriel's pages are AMAZING!

[joevoter]

48. I am all about combined effort

I am not attached to fugw or any other. If the content is good then it speaks for itself. You dis me and accuse me of plugging a site yet you do not offer a list of good sites (just a reference to other better meta sites). If you give me a link to a really good one I will talk to the others about forwarding the domain dirrectly to it. As for being emotional what do you expect from someone who has worked their butt off on this then gets dissed for offering an educated opinion as a shameless plug.

[Quakerfriend]

38. I think the time is now

It seems to me that the MSM paints as conspiracy theorists, more than anything. I say, we have nothing to lose with passing this on to the Canadian Media. They may be able to help our cause!
And, BTW not all newbies are liars, just been lerking longer! I know how you feel though............cause even a newbie gets paranoid once in a while!! ;-)

[IAMREALITY]

41. Tis True

"And, BTW not all newbies are liars, just been lerking longer!"

I absolutely agree with ya. I've seen people with a thousand posts post such crap it's hard to believe, and I've seen newbies post stuff that has been monumentally helpful to our efforts. Posts do not determine credibility.

What I'm concerned with are the ones from newbies that smell like Sean Hannity's armpit...

Oh, and Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[NVMojo]

71. another freeper enema attempt!!

[joevoter]

82. It is shamefully disturbing that you say this

I posted my thoughts, I respectfully supported my opinion, I supplied a link to a site that myself and others have worked hard on and I am called the slime of the earth. This is not the way to foster cooperation. If you want to see some of the positive efforts that I have done dating back to nov 11 go to <http://blackboxvoting.org> to conferences/Oregon/Jackson I am crew voter0of1 and I got the ball rolling with a number of volunteers face to face here in Ashland OR. There are now flyers up all over Ashland and I was in this photo of the last election fraud meeting in Medford Oregon found here (this is only 1/2 of the total group that was there, Gaia was our spokesperson.
http://www.vallejonews.com/articles/index.cfm?artOID=251855&cp=60
and no... I did not cross post my original message "very bad idea" This thread is the only place that I put it. Please be more considerate as to who you call a freeper.

[Paligal]

89. Amen

We people who are working hard at actually gaining some credibility and doing something constructive get called freepers for discouraging the dissemination of a completely unsupported theory? NOTE: None of us who pleaded caution told you not to dig further into this theory and gather evidence. In fact, we encouraged it. We merely stated that it should not be sent to those who already doubt us, because it will add fuel to their flames. So perhaps you should reconsidered who is a "freeper" here.
Further, I read comments here that Madsen has technical facts and figures, and therefore, it must be true. Citing a cancelled check to an INVESTMENT FIRM, which gets plenty of big checks, is not corroborating evidence. Stating facts or figures that cannot be verified does not prove anything. And Madsen omits the facts and figures which COULD be verified, such as which and how many of "various" election precincts on lockdown there were. So how can you say that the story must be accurate due to facts and figures. That's like me saying "An informed source told me that the election was rigged in a certain precinct by a certain number of votes for a certain candidate. The source revealed that the numerous perpetrators were driving numerous Vespas and drove 45 miles per hour. They were paid $70,000 (see cancelled check to "Smith Contractors"). There are some facts and figures in there, but they prove NOTHING. Wouldn't you require a little more information before submitting that to the press? If not, you are either lazy or foolish. If you think this is a good lead, PLEASE, help us out. Do the groundwork and investigate it. Get some useable facts and figures to back up the story.
Until then, lay off the "freeper" attacks on those with some common sense to exercise caution and not trust everyone with a theory who comes on here and throws a story with holes at us. We are seeking the TRUTH. So let's get it. Raise the bar.

[Shalom]

39. KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK N/T

[Blissfulbride]

45. send it to the FBI

Personally, I don't have and faith in the story, but if you believe there is any truth in it, you should send it to the FBI. They have a legal obligation to investigate every lead that comes in and that would include internally.

[Joe Chi Minh]

51. You mean

like in respect of Karen Silkwood's and JFK's assassins? Or maybe the vital info Monica Lewinski had.... and Susan McDougal should! have had?

No, I honestly don't think the FBI covered themselves with glory in those cases. There may be more reliable first resorts.

[Pepper32]

55. Not only that....

Look at the way the FBI handled 9-11. Here is a memo written by
Coleen Rowley's to FBI Director Robert Mueller

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/27/163915.shtml

"To get to the point, I have deep concerns that a delicate and subtle shading/skewing of facts by you and others at the highest levels of FBI management has occurred and is occurring. The term "cover up" would be too strong a characterization which is why I am attempting to carefully (and perhaps over laboriously) choose my words here."
<Snip>

http://prisonplanet.com/bush_thwarted_fbi_probe.html
"FBI agents in the United States probing relatives of Saudi-born terror suspect Osama Bin Laden before September 11 were told to back off soon after George W Bush became president, the BBC has reported."
<snip>


http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?art_id=1030259305
"The report, which the BBC claimed was based on a secret FBI document, numbered 199I WF213589 and emanating out of the FBI’s Washington field office, alleged that the cynicism of the American establishment and "connections between the CIA and Saudi Arabia and the Bush men and bin Ladens" may have been the real cause of the deaths of thousands in the World Trade Centre attacks."
<snip>

[Hobbes199]

52. Canadian media emails...

http://www.cope.bc.ca/index.cfm/fuseaction/target.form/campaignID/CAC3A92B-D473-4CA2-856618CE34AD346C/pageID/98112CD9-B2E3-4A3A-B18502FC812AEF8E/index.html

[ailsagirl]

59. Thank you-- I just sent the information to the email addresses

listed on the link

[Pepper32]

53. More Canadian email addresses...LONG LIST

This list seems more reliable, it's listed on an internet activism site.

http://ghostchild.com/canadian_media_email_list.htm

[ailsagirl]

54. This link from FDIC shows that there was an alert issued...

http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/SpecialAlert/2004/sa7304.html

Special Alerts
----------------------------------------------------
SA-73-2004
October 15, 2004

TO: CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER (also may be of interest to Security Officer)
SUBJECT: Entities That May Be Conducting Banking Operations in Canada or the United States Without Authorization
Summary: Six entities may be illegally operating as financial institutions.

The Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions (OSFI) of Canada has published the attached "Warning Notice" (Issue No. 55), which lists the names of six entities recently brought to OSFI's attention. These entities are Bankers Financial and Security Trust, Toronto, Ontario; Equity Financial Trust, Toronto, Ontario; Falcon Financial and Trust, Toronto, Ontario; National Deposit, Toronto, Ontario; Standard Financial Trust Bank, Toronto, Ontario; and Unity Virtual Trust Group, Toronto, Ontario.

These entities, or persons representing them, are reportedly operating in Canada. They may be violating provisions of the Bank Act (Canada) or other Canadian financial institution regulations. They may also be conducting unauthorized banking transactions in the United States. Any proposed transactions involving these entities should be viewed with extreme caution.

=snip=

Any information about these entities may be forwarded to the FDIC's Special Activities Section, 550 17th Street, N.W., Room F-4040, Washington, D.C. 20429, or forwarded electronically to [e-mail].

[elare]

57. Kick

Keep emailing. I'm sure the CBC would like nothing better than to break a story about US election problems WHILE Bush is in Canada this week!

[rumpel]

61. did anyone sent the madsen article to the congress

Hi. I am glad I found this site. Everyone is doing such an enormously great job.
I thought we should send the article to Wexler or all of them, they do have the power to have this "check" investigated, right?

[NVMojo]

72. good find, Ailsagirl!!

[rdmccur]

60. A couple of ideas and then I gotta go

1) Perhaps we should make signs with the web addresses for Madsen's stuffand post them or hang them

2) Does anyone know Craig Unger's e-mail. He wrote the book "House of Bush, House of Saud"? Maybe he should know about Madsen's articles (if he doesn't already)

[ailsagirl]

63. kick

[NVMojo]

65. crispini, you are one smart cracker! Thanks!!!

you rule!!

[BringEmOn]

75. Does anybody have a contact for Barrie Zwicker?

He did some excellent documentaries (I think it was for Vision TV in Canada) questioning what really happened on 9-11. Unfortunately, the videos are no longer available online.

[elare]

76. I found this one

[e-mail]

[BringEmOn]

80. Thank you!

[jamboi]

78. He was on Fox tonight. They gave his website, http://www.911inquiry.org/

Of course he was pounded on by the host (can't remember who the host was, but it was part of their "Hating America" special. The host tried to say that because BZ thinks Bushco had a role in 9/11 he "hates Americans". He tried to make a correction saying something to the effect that just because he's critical of the Bush Admin does not mean he hates the American people or is trying to get others to hate America or Americans.

[BringEmOn]

81. Thank you! I'll check out his website.

[rosyhue]

77. note to new posters from another new person

I was just labled a "freeper" lol
But can understand why. I think. Thought newbies might want to get better insight as to why certain people on this board are continually warning others to remain cautious about becoming "emotionally involved" with this Madsen story.

Prior to posting I hadn't read anything about Rove. (My mistake and please pardon my ignorance).

Now that I have it's obvious he isn't above providing others with false information. Their skepticism isn't necessarily aimed at Madsen - they're wary he may have received dubious information which was meant to discredit him and anyone pushing his story.

[joevoter]

83. Thank you

We all have to think together. I posted info as to who I am a few posts up after being called a freeper again.

[genieroze]

85. Did you see the link?

in that Kos post. In Madsen Story he names one of those companies that the Canadians are giving a warning about fraud for. This gets stranger every day. Of course this could be a Rove planted red freaking herring.

http://www.osfi-bsif.gc.ca/eng/documents/notices/docs/Warning_Notice_55_e.pdf

[New Earth]

86. sorry but i think it's a really bad idea

asking them to LOOK INTO it is one thing, but don't ask them cover it. this story has given me a bad feeling from the first time i read the headline of it's first thread on this board.

[Patsy Stone]

87. Keith interviewed by NY Observer -- NEW

Apologies for posting this all over the place, shopaholic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=27 57516#2758029

Link to interview:

http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/frontpage4.asp

Kinda calls the media lazy slugs...Go, Keith!

[Pepper32]

90. kick

[elare]

92. Kick