Blackwell Sued Over Cuyahoga Vote Tally 11/27/04...

[BlueCaliDem]

Suit seeks to validate provisional ballots
Saturday, November 27, 2004
James Ewinger
Plain Dealer Reporter

A national nonpartisan voters' rights group has asked an Ohio court to reinstate nearly 8,000 provisional ballots ruled invalid in Cuyahoga County.

The People for the American Way Foundation filed suit Friday in the 8th Ohio District Court of Appeals in Cleveland against Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell and the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections.

<snip>

Last month, a federal appeals court ruled that Blackwell was correct in directing poll workers not to count provisional ballots cast outside voters' home precincts. That was only one of a flurry of conflicting court decisions at the federal and state levels.

Cuyahoga had 24,472 provisional ballots cast in the Nov. 2 election, and 8,099 - fully a third - were invalidated. That was the largest single body of controversial ballots in any of Ohio's 88 counties.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/110155142862570.xml

[henslee]

1. Squirm Katherine Blackwell. Squirm. Evil pig. Fascist tool. grr. n/t

[mirandapriestly]

3. People For The American Way

looks like a wonderful organization

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=163

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[troubleinwinter]

14. No one made a point about "most invalid ballots"

And, no, the people filing suit have not looked at the ballots, that is the POINT.

You "don't think it's going to matter". How about we see if votes matter?! Got something against that? Wouldn't you like to know that your vote matters?




(BTW... cast, not "casted", suing, not "sueing", and suit, not "suite")

[KMG]

17. Even if kerry got them all, it still isn't enough.

[life_long_dem]

20. Hey Gluebuy

Go back to where you belong.
Kerry on..... everyone else.

[New Earth]

21. ahh yes

i was waiting for that moment. BYE BYE!!!

[BushSpeak]

22. Some people must be dumb to cast an invalid ballot - OR!

too trusting and believe a Republican election judge

Large polling place - 6 precincts - a table for each precinct

4 election judges telling people that they can cast a provisional ballot at any table/precinct, despite signs posted on the wall explaining that provisional ballots must be cast in the proper precinct.

This was an official affidavit of a Democratic Party "challenger" collected during the public meetings in Ohio. It was for Summit County, but the same sort of testimony has been collected all over Ohio.

Election officials gave wrong information about provisional ballots - revealed in affidavit.
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/934

(check out all the links on the right for more "voter horror stories"!

There were also stories of people standing in line for over an hour only to be told that they must go to another table and stand in line again.

Don't forget the precincts that disappeared during the redistricting and the failure to advise new voters of address of their assigned polling place. Not to mention the people that registered only to find that the county had not processed their application.

Looks like the 8000 rejected provisional ballots were only the tip of the iceberg, but then icebergs have a tendency to melt before they can be counted. Just ask Blackwell.

This is the new "Blackwell Theory of Redundant Coincidences".

[lthuedk]

4. Obstruction of justice is a crime, is it not?

Should a federal criminal case be filed against the Bushists, these mid-levelers will be some of the first to be cuffed.

[digitaldog]

5. cuff em ..........................jessie....................nt

[Blueguy]

6. Show us the crime first.

What crime? Counting slow isnt a crime.. its being a dick, but its not a crime.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. Violation of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution...

...for equal protection is a crime--especially when it's willful, as it clearly is in what Blackwell's been doing.

Bush v Gore 2000 set precedence for this in the SCotUS, remember?

Throwing out provisional ballots that were handed out with false verbal information that they will be counted no matter what district one is in, is intentionally trying to disenfranchise voters.

I'm sure the lawyers at People for the American Way have the evidence to back their allegations in the suit against Blackwell, or they wouldn't have even thought to file suit.

They've collected hundreds of testimonies from voters, Democratic challengers, volunteers, and election judges, and probably even have video footage to back it all up.

[KMG]

18. Who runs People for the American Way.

It says non partisan, so who are they?

[BlueCaliDem]

19. Why Is That Important To You?

But to do your homework for you, here I've copied and pasted an explanation of "who" the People for the American Way is:

People For the American Way Foundation, a national civil rights and constitutional liberties organization, is a founding member of the nonpartisan Election Protection coalition, which mobilized more than 25,000 voting rights volunteers to monitor the November elections and help voters overcome obstacles to voting.

Your query "who runs" the People For the American Way smacks of an "us against them" attitude.

There is NO "us against them" among liberals and progressives--when we're not unfairly attacked by staunch, and wholly mislead, ill-informed right-wingers, KKK-hopefuls, Neo-wannabe-Nazis, racists, bigots and Bushites, that is.

The "us against them" doctrine is a typical one for the above mentioned group's fan base.

An "isolationism" doctrine that is, in part, the cause of the "scared of my own shadow" manifestations within the minds of narrow-minded ninnies--which also explains their panicky cries against any form of common sense gun control. :scared:

[Igel]

27. Newbie knocking

Lots of "non-partisan" organizations are RW, sometimes very, very much so. If somebody posted from a RW thinktank or group, I'm fairly sure there'd be a lot of "us against them" discussion.

The guy's question can be parsed a couple of different ways. Low post count, maybe s/he was asking an honest question. "Benefit of the doubt" seems like a reasonable way to go.

But doing his (her?) homework for him (her) was the decent thing to do.

[BlueCaliDem]

28. Welcome, igil...I'm still very much a "newbie" myself...

...so you go on right ahead, and knock as much as ya like! :)

Lots of "non-partisan" organizations are RW, sometimes very, very much so.

Really? Can you give me names? I don't believe that the Heritage Foundation, nor the CATO Institute, nor the American Enterprise Institute (all three well-known RW "think tanks") qualify as being anywhere near "non-partisan".

But I'm interested to know what RW think tanks out there are.

If somebody posted from a RW think-tank or group, I'm fairly sure there'd be a lot of "us against them" discussion.

Maybe because...there's no such thing as a non-partisan RW think tank? I don't know, but since the partisan tone was set by rabid RWers in the persecution of Pres. Bill Clinton, it's kind of hard for any person with even the most fairest of minds, to believe that RWers can be non-partisan in any way.

Not impossible, mind you, but based on the history since their obsession with persecuting, and destroying Bill Clinton, it's darn near impossible.

The guy's question can be parsed a couple of different ways. Low post count, maybe s/he was asking an honest question. "Benefit of the doubt" seems like a reasonable way to go.

A strange question; asking who runs the People for the American Way; a non-partisan civil rights group that gained fame, and became well known among every liberal and progressive I know, since the 2000 Florida Recount debacle.

It just strikes me, that this poster didn't ask the more expected question like, "On what grounds are they suing Blackwell?" instead of "the People for the American Way say they're non-partisan, but who runs it?"

It smacks of a typical RW strategy to discredit the messenger, instead of researching the message.

But doing his (her?) homework for him (her) was the decent thing to do.

Yeah...I thought so too, but I'm a generous kind of gal. ;)

[bobbieinok]

30. People for the American Way founded by Norman Lear

probably best known for his TV series All in the Family

Check out

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/L/htmlL/learnorman/learnorman.htm

(Maude, a spin off from All in the Family)

....

Lear's pioneering television work brought an even more controversial series, Maude, to CBS in 1972. Lear once described the acerbic and openly liberal Maude as the flip side of Archie Bunker. Perhaps in his mind that was true in the beginning, but unlike Archie, Maude's positions on issues were not presumed to be ridiculous and her approaches to social issues were almost always presented sympathetically. The most famous episodes of Maude dealt with her decision to have an abortion. Reflecting the Supreme Court's abortion decision of 1973, Maude and husband Walter worked out their response to her mid-life pregnancy with dignity and compassion. That show sparked a storm of protest from Roman Catholics. If some viewers accepted Archie as the bigot he was, some of the religious community took Maude equally seriously.

....

(People for the American Way)

....

But by 1980 he was alarmed by the radical religious fanaticism of Christian fundamentalists. At first he thought he would use a television series to respond....in 1982 he founded People for the American Way to speak out for Bill of Rights guarantees and monitor violations of constitutional freedoms. By 1996 the organization had become one of the most influential and effective voices for freedom.

[BlueCaliDem]

7. Wasn't Judith Miller of the NYT Charged, and Found...

...guilty for "obstruction of justice" for not revealing her "source" that had approached her about the Plame outing? She never wrote a single word about it...unlike a right-wing hack who still puts his mug on CNN's Crossfire, and Capital Gang for huge profits, who did use the info.

Miller is currently appealing her 18 month jail sentencing as we speak.

Funny that Bob Novak, the ONE who outed Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, hasn't even spent a day in court, huh? I guess there are separate rules and laws pertaining to one's party affiliation.

Remember poor Susan McDougal, and the Ken Starr (rabid right-winger) persecution of her for not willing to lie against Bill Clinton in the wholly debunked, and disproven "Whitewater" case that never was?

Ken Starr cited "obstruction of justice" to imprison her until Bill Clinton pardoned her before he left office; playing legal games and abusing Federal laws in order to keep her in prison.

Shameful. Utterly, utterly shameful.

[AuntiBush]

8. Home of the Brave

Yeah... that's about what it's going to take to survive all the daily bs coming from Bushit! Honestly, how do they get away w/all of this; by not being part of that first word in my last sentence, that's how!

[geo]

9. Go People for the American Way, Go!! :)

Very, very cool. I always thought we were being a little too procedural in invalidating votes just because someone accidentally voted in the wrong precinct. I can understand invalidating selections that are void based on the individual's constituency, but discounting a statewide ballot issue because you voted a block or two away from where you should have isn't right at all. Also, the People for the American Way bring up a good point: the poll workers should have warned individual voters that they were in the wrong place, and help direct them. Also, in this case, the long lines in many of the precincts should have been reason enough to count votes cross-precinct.

Maybe I'm just venting, but I am very much thrilled that someone is making a case out of it. :)

Warmly,

George

[MarkusQ]

11. A block or two?

but discounting a statewide ballot issue because you voted a block or two away from where you should have isn't right at all

In some cases, it wasn't "a block or two" it was another table in the very same room.

But I will agree that it isn't right at all.

--MarkusQ

[BlueCaliDem]

15. That's the thing about Law, is...

...it's to the "T". Black and white with NO shades of gray. Shades of gray are cast by attorneys, and judges who interpret the law, and who set precedence.

If, for example, that table was designated as the table for another precinct {precinct B to make this easier to understand--citing lack of room in precinct B}, then legally, whether that table is in the same room as precinct A, that "precinct B" table is legally unable to accept provisional ballots from the voters, according to Blackwell, who are registered in precinct A.

Legally, they can claim, that the table was set there "to help with the overflow" of "precinct B" voters, and in the meantime, have "precinct A" voters, who don't know about this little technicality "scam", cast their provisional ballots there without being told they're actually casting their ballot in the "wrong precinct", thereby invalidating their vote on the spot.

It's unfair, unethical, immoral, and scandalous, but when dealing with Republicans out for total power, it should be expected.

[MarkusQ]

23. A quibble

It's unfair, unethical, immoral, and scandalous, but when dealing with Republicans out for total power, it should be expected.

Speaking as a Republican (old style, not neocon), I would like to offer one correction to this statement: it's what you should expect when dealing with anyone out for total power, regardless of their party affiliation.

Other than that minor quibble, I agree with you 100%

--MarkusQ

[BlueCaliDem]

25. My Apologies, MarkusQ...

...it's been such a long time, since I've met a true, conservative, real Republican anywhere, that I'd just given up looking for them, and decided that they must've all assimilated into the neocon fraction of today.

Those I meet these days, are always of that "persuasion".

Good to know there are still old-school Republicans around, eh?

:hi:

[MarkusQ]

26. Oh, we're still here...

Oh, we're still here...

And in many ways, we're madder than you guys are. After all, they absconded with our party long before they started on taking over the country, and their techniques have been about the same the whole time; some of us have been objecting to them since the late eighties at least.

Of course, descent in the GOP ranks gets about as much media attention as the concern over election rigging. As far as you'd know reading the papers, we're one big happy neo-con party with a mandate to run one big happy neo-con country on its neo-com mission from neo-con God. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

--MarkusQ

[BlueCaliDem]

29. I Have a Confession to Make...

...I used to be a Republican too. Honest; Cross my heart, and all that.

I was a big Ronald Reagan fan; my whole family on my father's, and mother's side are Republicans; my younger sister now serving in Iraq, is a Mormon, and a Republican; my morals, ethics, and Christian beliefs are so conservative, they're out of tune with most liberals and progressives, so I understand, and know where it hurts--although I've long ago given up being mad.

You're right. The party left us, and have gone so far to the right, I don't know if it will ever return.

Ever since the blatant persecution of our then sitting Commander in Chief, Bill Clinton, I was turned off by the new Republican tactics that showed disrespect of our President, and made us the laughing stock of the world.

I could, in good conscience, not remain a Republican, and therefore registered myself, and have been voting predominantly Democrat.

[berniew1]

12. Documentation of voter suppression in ohio

Documentation of voter suppression in ohio
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/cleveland.htm

http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm

[Imagevision]

13. Fat chance- The judge was appointed by Bush (Watson)

Balckwell is just running the clock out.

[AnIndependentTexan]

16. maybe they can sue the judge next

[loudsue]

24. There are a HOST of judges that should be charged: the one who

stated that the guts of the voting machines were "proprietary business secrets" is the first one that comes to mind! Is that not TOTALLY against "transparent", i.e., FAIR, AUDITABLE AND ACCOUNTABLE elections?

:kick::kick:

[texpatriot2004]

31. Kick

[KoKo]

35. Watson was okay...I looked him up and he wasn't one of the most

conservative ones. He was in with a batch of Bush sychophants but one of our Democrats (Leahy, I believe) stood up for him. Now, not that I think Leahy is any friend of ours given some of the stuff he's done lately, but we have to hope the guy isn't a total sell out.

Do a Google on him. I didn't save what I saw..if I have time I will recheck.

[texpatriot2004]

32. Kick

[bones_7672]

33. With only 1 week to go, THA THA THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

One week till the election is certified. Even if Kerry gets the 8000 votes, he's still short by more than 120,000. Time to move on, it's over.

[KoKo]

36. No.....it's not all over. We need to make sure this never happens again..

and there's much work to do to get our voting machines properly working with the code accessable and to make sure every precinct has enough voting machines. Plus the "intimidation" and Absentee and Provisional Ballot problems.

It may be over for you, but what about all our voting rights in the other elections to come?

[bones_7672]

37. Don't forget ...

... shortages of voter machines was a problem because of Repubs AND Dems. I'm all for election reform, but this election wasn't stolen. Kerry lost. period.

[BlueCaliDem]

41. Likewise, Don't YOU Forget, bones_7672...

...where you're posting.

The Democratic Underground is overflowing with more information than just about any other media outlet, and if after having been here all this time, and having been privileged with all the insider info that's been posted here complete with links, letters, emails from sound sources, you staunchly keep believing that Kerry's lost the Presidential election...

...You're a troll, or freeper, or just plain lazy and happy with being naive.

Because there's no way, anyone with enough sense, could believe, after all the evidence, stats, and reports posted in this forum, that the election wasn't stolen, and Kerry lost.

Absolutely NO WAY!

So, what say you now?

[texpatriot2004]

34. Kick

[texpatriot2004]

38. I just like the sound of Blackwell et al being sued

[texpatriot2004]

39. Blackwell sued...ah it's music to my ears

[texpatriot2004]

40. kick