Finally we have signs that Kerry's involved...

[ClassWarrior]

...in the vote fraud effort - and suddenly we have all these threads by people who ARE ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that Kerry has abandoned us. Coincidence?

NGU.

[NVMojo]

1. thanks for mentioning this, ClassWarrior

I was wondering the same thing, thought is was strikingly troll like of all the negativity postings.

[ahyums]

2. signs? the video last week, the KE Ohio campaign press release or

something new?

[ClassWarrior]

7. Those, plus the comments from the Kerry attorney...

...on the ground in Ohio from this morning's Washington Post.

NGU.

[ahyums]

10. comments? must have missed that thread I don't suppose you could point me

in its direction?

[ClassWarrior]

11. It was in this morning's Washington Post.

I believe it's washingtonpost.com.

NGU.

[ahyums]

14. that would indeed be logical

[Solitaire]

85. I'm not finding it...

anyone have a link?

thanks :)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. No.

But right now, I sure want to see more out of the man and the movement.

Time for some people to bust a move.

[Deja Q]

4. Where? I would be much appreciative of a link! And

if it's true, I will bow my head in shame. Let's just say I'm mostly convinced, but it did hit hard at the time.

[sally343434]

5. That's not news

We've had ample evidence of Kerry's "involvement in the vote fraud effort" as soon as he hurriedly uttered his concession and ran away.

[ClassWarrior]

8. Yeah, threads like that!

LOL

NGU.

[s-cubed]

37. Kerry is there: he's just waiting for the right time

The following quote is from Joseph Cannon, a blogger who generally has good sense and seems to get news very quickly:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com

"Kerry: I've just heard from one of the most noteworthy soldiers in his campaign "army" (not a general, but not just a grunt) that the senator does not consider this fight over".

So, I wouldn't listen to the faint of heart.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Ive been hearing about that

Let it be so, and I hope if it is so, people apologize for being wrong or at the very least admit it.

[forintegrity]

9. You can now contribute to the Kerry-Edwards recount efforts

at johnkerry.com

"Contributing to the Kerry-Edwards 2004 General Election Legal and Accounting Compliance Fund (GELAC) provides important support for our campaign. The Federal Election Commission has just granted our request to raise funds now to cover recount expenses. Your contribution to Kerry-Edwards 2004 GELAC will provide the resources to make sure we are prepared to win the post election day battles."

John Kerry hasn't abandoned us (he's got too much class to do that)and continues his "Fight for America!"

[sally343434]

18. I still think it's nothing but projection

I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. But to date, these Kerry-boosting messages on DU seem to me to be nothing but intellectual forays into fantasy-land, where creating a scenario in your mind somehow makes it a reality.

[ClassWarrior]

21. Wow, you're really have those threads down!

ROFLMAO

NGU.

[Mirwib]

80. How can Kerry be asking for more money?

I just do not get it.

We have Kerry, who still has several million dollars (I have seen estimates from $15 to $40 million dollars), asking for funds so he can afford to do recounts. Exactly how is he planning to spend the cash he has leftover?

I remember watching Dean live on TV after his second place finish in Iowa and thinking that it was a pretty good speach. He had energy and emotion. Only later, did I learn from the media that it was a "meltdown".

[ClassWarrior]

82. You don't get it because you "learn from the media."

NGU.

[ValleyGirl]

26. Thanks

thanks for posting that. I donated. My credit cards will be grateful when this election finally ends. ;)

[ValleyGirl]

41. Reply

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the automated email sent after my contribution...(they haven't even changed this to reflect it's after Nov. 2)

Thank you for your generous contribution to our campaign.

The election is in full swing now, and we're winning -- but only thanks to
people like you.

Please take the next step and ask your friends to sign up for Johnkerry.com.
John Kerry's success on Election Day depends on all of us and signing up will
ensure your friends participate in activities that will make the difference
in November.

If you want to learn more about John Kerry or his positions on the issues,
please visit our website at http://www.johnkerry.com.

Thanks for your support!

Thank you,

The JohnKerry.com Team

If only it still WERE pre-Election day, I was much more hopeful about the next four years!

[whalerider55]

27. hold on a minute here

first, I thought Kerry already had money set aside specifically for litigating fraud-

second, didn't he just admit that he sat on 12 mil or was it 15 that he didn't spend during the campaign?

and he wants us to donate so he can get involved in a recount?

listen folks- i want more than anything to see Kerry president.
but man alive; the issue couldn't have been stated any more clearly by JEdwards on election night-
"every vote must be counted" i believed it.
i must've missed the whispered part- the one where edwards said just don't expect us to lead this battle...

this is no longer about Kerry winning for me, although i'd love that outcome.
this is about enfranchisement. democracy. the constitution.
i have been keenly disappointed by JFK and JE and the DLC and the DNC on this.

it's three weeks now, and they are first getting mobilized to fund a recount- sheesh, it took the greens and the libs FOUR DAYS to raise the money for a recount... and how many DU'ers donated to Nader to help get NH recounted...

sheesh.
and i did post yesterday, and will state again, that if i'm wrong, and if anyone from JFK on down to the DNC makes a public statement saying this is a fight they will undertake to ensure enfranchisement, i'll do mea culpas and bare my cyber-breast for all the flaming arrows to be flung at me.

whalerider55

[alittlelark]

40. "but man alive" - I haven't heard that one for 20-30 years.

[whalerider55]

47. uh oh....

my age is showing....
it just sorta popped out.

caught in the 70's again.

what was that wonderful line from "Field of Dreams"
you weren't really there in the 60's... you had two fifties and moved right on into the seventies...

whalerider55

[whistle]

35. Perhaps the people who steal the votes and perpetrate the fraud...

...should pay for it. How about getting the courts to open up the RNC coffers for some underwriting here, or maybe the manufactures of the voting machines, or in the states that have hired private companies to oversee and manage the voting process, get them to prove their systems integrity.

[Mirwib]

79. I am sorry, but this is not a battle that can be fought undercover

If Kerry is fighting for this election, he needs to be doing it openly. Sending messages through his soldiers that he is still fighting is not the same as actually fighting.

[ClassWarrior]

83. We don't need any more examples, thank you...

...of what disruptor threads look like. We all know them when we see them.

NGU.

[pat_k]

89. The GELAC fund was set up to take contributions before Nov. 2nd...

The GELAC fund was set up to take contributions before Nov. 2nd. Note the emphasis in ".... has just granted our request to raise funds now to cover recount expenses... emphasis indicates "now, before the election" to me.

[txindy]

12. No, definitely not.

Between the 'convinced' of abandonment posters and the so-sad-oh-woe threads/posts, I'm really padding my Ignore list today. :eyes:

Yes, desperation from Junior's sycophants is in the air. Definitely. Smells like sulphur. :evilgrin:

[whalerider55]

30. i'd remind you

that before the election, a lot of us tried to fight * by making a commitment to join the "reality-based community." consider some of these comments to reflect that commitment.

as for convinced of abandonment, i'd have to say i'd frame it differently. i'd say i'm waiting to be convinced that there is any real tangible evidence that the DNC is moving on the issue of enfranchisement.

and maybe others seem to your view to be woe is me... i've been more the "we've been f*cked and what are we gonna do about it, are we gonna wait for another filing deadline to pass (as Bev Harris noted in FLorida today) before we fight for enfranchisement?"

Pad your ignore list. Reminds me of Bush purging dissent from the white house and the CIA. very repug of you not to tolerate a broad and colorful discussion of the issues.

Junior's sycophants? I think not. more like junior repugs, who can't stand a an opinion not their own. I'm not even sure what that smells like, but it sure brings down the tone of the conversation. ANother repug tactic, demonizing.

way to go. go ahead, stamp your feet. ignore me. doesn't make the issues go away, right? i mean, that's why we're al;l here on DU.

whalerider55
still snarky, i guess

[txindy]

45. Recognized someone in my post, obviously.

That says a lot. Notice I didn't respond to any of your previous posts in other threads. In fact, I don't know that I've even read any of your posts. But go right ahead and complain about being attacked but unnamed in unidentified threads regarding unidentified topics. :eyes:

:hi:

[whalerider55]

59. if i

jumped, it was in response to what i interpreted as a less than tolerant approach to dissenting points of view; something i am acutley sensitive to these days. no offense was intended, and any expressions of frustration were.

i have been accused in other postings of being a "doomsayer crawling out of the woodwork" because i seem to be challenging conventional wisdom on where we should be putting our faith on the recount issue. i've also chosen to take this out of the context of Kerry Bush, and see it more from the perspective of fraudulent elections continue to turn the constitution into toilet paper, and why isn't everyone screaming about that, which also seems to cut against the wind.

its the chicken little syndrome. as freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. then again, there is an old yiddish saying-- a goat has a beard, but that doesn't make it a rabbi.

whalerider55

[txindy]

74. If I were to be intolerant, I would do so post by post in other threads

Not in a thread that doesn't contain those dissenting points of view. People have the right to their own opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I don't even have to read every single one of their posts. Frankly, there isn't enough time in the day. I'm capable of collecting facts and making up my own mind. That doesn't make me a "repug," it makes me independent. Accusing people of "demonizing," "purging dissent," and stamping their feet after they make a non-specific, tongue-in-cheek, two sentence post in a thread you hadn't even entered at that time, makes your sig line more than a bit ironic. ;)

[ClassWarrior]

52. A lot of who?? You have less than 450 posts, and by the looks of things...

...you've made three-quarters of them today. You'd say you're "waiting" to be convinced there's evidence?? You're not "waiting" to do ANYTHING. You're advancing an agenda. Systematically. All night long. In thread after thread. If you want to wait for proof, GREAT!! Wait! But to spend an evening actively stomping on the hopes of others stinks to high heaven.

NGU.

[whalerider55]

67. got it now

post in the lounge until i hit a thousand, then express an opinion on politics.

now i get it.

whalerider55

[ClassWarrior]

70. There's no excuse for cruelly stomping on the hopes of others.

Not even a high post count. So don't bother with the trick.

NGU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Nixon must be proud SOMEODY is using his methods

and it is not exactly who he thought would use them...

Vintage Nixon, 1960s Nixon.

[ClassWarrior]

23. You know, I was thinking the same thing.

Either they're Radical RWers who are trying to disrupt, or they're Dems who drank the kool-aid that the Radical RW made when Nixon exposed them for the criminals they are: that ALL politicians are crooked. Sorry, some of us AREN'T that cynical.

NGU.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. no, not quite

again, Nixon conceded in 1960 and then continued to dig... when he found the hanky panky he had a problem... he was involved in his own hanky panky

but he did continue to dig, first covertly then more overtly after conceeding.

That is what I mean... and you think Rove is even thinking a Democrat woudl do this?

[ClassWarrior]

49. Yeah, you're the one who floated this example first, aren't you?

I agree that it could be the 1960 scenario at work, with the candidate digging behind the scenes. I think that's the only kind of thing that has any hope of working under these extreme and extraordinary circumstances, and if a bunch of bozos like us can figure that out, it's not too much of a leap to think an experienced prosecuter and his team could too.

But I think my 1968 example holds true to the situation at DU. If any of these nay-sayers are true Dems, then they're acting this way because they've bought into one of the Radical RW's most useful weapons - the idea that ALL politicans are crooked. It lets the criminal bastards of the GOP off the hook every time. And it makes us question our own leaders. They took Nixon's lemons and made a fucking lemon meringue pie. I hate fucking lemon meringue pie.

NGU.

[whalerider55]

54. can you be more specific

who are the "nay-sayers"?
what are they saying "nay" about?

and it would help me to understand your 1968 analogy if you would explain it.

having lived through 1968, and actually participated as a teenager in the McCarthy campaign, my own recollection is that the Dems lost because "we" escalated Viet Nam, although our involvement began in the fifties. The dems lost because George Wallace spilt the vote, because HHH sold his balls to power and couldn't seperate from Johnson and oppose the war until it was too late. We lost because Kennedy, the best candidate and biggest threat to the powers that still be was shot. We lost with virtually no fraud that emerged after the campaign, and as i recall, when the results were announced the following morning, it was illonois especially Chicago, that put Nixon over the edge- chicago, where the convention had taken placve, and where Richard Daley was seen on national television calling Senator Abe Ribikoff a jew-bastard and a kike for complaining about the police actions against protestors.

in short, it seemed to me that that we were not acceptable to the country as leaders. i wished it was otherwise. and while Nixon was the scum of the earth, he was a hell of a lot better than Bush on the environement- Nixon formed the EPA. As for the rest of his policies, he can mull them over in hell.

whalerider55

[ClassWarrior]

60. No. But thanks for keeping this thread kicked.

By the way, a question mark (?) goes at the end of a question.

NGU.

[KaryninMiami]

15. What am I missing here?

Did we suddenly get actual proof or are we just rehashing what we've all been discussing for days now which is part theory, part faith, part hope and part-- well partly credible I suppose if you buy into certain observations. ("Kerry Sighting" as Keith described)...

[ClassWarrior]

17. Yeah, threads like that too.

LMAO

NGU.

[jamboi]

20. Everyone go to JohnKerry.com and co-sign bill. Encourage him! t/n

[whistle]

16. Not really a coincidence, just political savvy, but I have not heard of....

...or seen signs that John Kerry is now overtly involved in exposing voting fraud and vote stealing. Do you have links to stories of actual actions on the part of John Kerry to recover votes he had stolen from him? I have seen the efforts by others, but not by Kerry. Please show us Senator.

[ClassWarrior]

19. Wow, you've seen those kind of threads too??

LMFAO

NGU.

[Patsy Stone]

22. OK, it's a stretch, but come with me

There's a scene in The Ten Commandments, where Moses goes up to Mount Sinai to get the tablets, and while he's up there, the Children of Israel make themselves false gods and worship gold and have a grand old time. Remember?

That's what we've got goin' here. A bunch of wound up people (myself included) who have a lot of time to watch all the minutae of this process. Some of us have been here before (Howdy from Miami!) some of us are new to the dance (Howdy, Ohio!, Nevada! Iowa! New Hampshire!), but we're all bored and, yet, frazzled. We can get ourselves into all kinds of trouble burning people in effigy and taking sides on the same issue to divide us in the days until the counts are certified.

Me, I write letters to people trying to get information out and express the common girl's opinion. It's fun watching the commotion and jumping into the mosh pit now and again, though. I just hope we don't do ourselves too much harm in the process.

My .02 Gobble, Gobble

[txindy]

24. Good analogy

I believe you've nailed it. :toast:

[Straight Shooter]

25. You mean such as "Time to sue the DNC and Kerry for breach of contract"?

I'm trying to talk Truehawk back from the edge of the cliff. There is no way a suit against DNC and Kerry is going to fly without taking its participants down with it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=77714

[truehawk]

33. While your concern is appreciated, I respectfully disagree

John Kerry can not win unless John Kerry uses his standing to get a timly recount in Ohio.

Only in case of a re-count will the spoiled punchcard ballots be looked at and counted.

Parantheticly
It is funny that Washington state has recounted it's governers race already by machhine and will be undertaking a hand recount, and they STILL will finish before OHIO certifies it's first canvass.

[Straight Shooter]

Then we have to agree to disagree

I believe Washington is a dissimilar circumstance from Ohio. We need to keep in mind that Ohio had not just evote machine irregularities, but voter suppression tactics, the worst being those which involved suggestions of racism. Also, Ohio has "Katherine" Blackwell. Contrast thtat with Washington which is being forthright about protecting its voters.

Regarding Ohio, I wouldn't be surprised if confidential affidavits were being covertly taken and filed for future reference.

I like to think that for now, it's the bush team on the Mekong Delta and the Kerry team waiting in the jungle.

If I'm wrong, I'll buy you your favorite CD, but we've got to wait until all the dust has settled :)

[Straight Shooter]

53. OMG - the infamous DUPE gremlin has finally stricken me!

for shame

:P

[ClassWarrior]

42. You fight the good fight SS.

NGU.

[googly]

29. Kerry will not get involved in crying FRAUD unless he has legal

proof which will hold up in court. Kerry is a lawyer and a former prosecutor, which is more than most here. He will do nothing to make him
look foolish.

IMHO the ONLY way this election gets overturned is if an insider such as a computer programmer from Diebold/Sequoia/etc -or- a B/C campaign insider steps forward to confess fraud AND has documented proof. May be a huge monetary reward will do it or remorse will do it.

Sorry to say, everything else is pissing in the wind.

[jdog]

32. What about all the testimony in the

public hearings about Ohio? Do we really have to rely on a whistleblower when there's been such blatent disregard? Maybe a lawsuit isn't the answer, but really isn't it about time someone stepped forward and quit playing games? Maybe it's over my hand (a high possibility) but I just want to throw my support behind someone and start working at getting at the truth - in a BIG way while there's still time. Time IS of the essence here.

[truehawk]

34. He does not have to utter the word Fraud to get a recount in Ohio

He has a crediable chance of the election turning for him and can sucessfully make a showing that time is of the essence. Something that Cobb and Bar can not do.

[whalerider55]

36. googly

welcome- and i feel pretty much the same way.
but i haven't been able to come up with any reasons why any demnocrat of standing or conscience can stay out of the real fight here, that votes were suppressed, voters were intimidated, and votes were not counted.

kerry can stay out of that if he wants, but where is Joe Biden, where is Harry Reid, where is Kent COnrad, Evan Bayh.

it's about the voting, stupid....

whalerider55

[googly]

46. You have a good point....the dem leaders should be making more noise,

and thanks for the welcome, I appreciate it.

[ClassWarrior]

51. Why should they be making more noise??

I'm sure not going to invite you to my next surprise party!

Welcome nonetheless.

NGU.

[whalerider55]

57. simply this

the way i see it, this is an issue of voter enfranchisement, it is a constitutional issue. regardless of who won, the vote won't ever be counted; there is clear evidence of voter intimidation and voter suppression, and circumstantial evidence of vote-tampering.

if the leaders of the party can't simply step up and say a democracy is completley contingent on the expectation that you will be able to cast a vote and it will be counted, what else is there? doesn't biden or kennedy or kerry or feingold have some degree of political stature; wouldn't they want to lend their names to such a battle?

why think about some future time, when the ability to believe that elections are real hangs in the balance?

whalerider55

[ClassWarrior]

58. I didn't ask you.

NGU.

[whalerider55]

63. you post on a website that everyone can read

i wasn't aware that response were limited to one person.

whalerider55

[MsConduct]

62. Because that's what true freedom is? Making noise, crying...

foul, screaming that something is wrong here? The silence is deafening. I'm sooooooooo tired of secrets and lies!

[ClassWarrior]

64. Yes, that's exactly the kind of thread I mentioned in the original post.

Thanks for playing!

NGU.

[MsConduct]

72. Thanks for letting me play....LOL n/t

[henslee]

31. I hardly think that those with abandonment issues are freepy. Maybe they

just don't have the patience for the "nuanced", borderline non-existent Kerry camp approach. And I do recall the comments of one DU poster who said he worked with a lawyers organization -- and that in his opinion, (paraphrased) if anything good was happening, those 27,000 lawyers would have an awful hard time keeping a secret. Something about this remark rings pretty true to me. Though I pine for some JK political judo, I don't read as much optimism into the Kerry camp response as many... and I am no freep.

[whalerider55]

38. henslee

that was me... and i stand by that statement.
and i'm still unclear- is it 17,000 spread b/t ohio and fl, are they all on the ground in ohio, are they working in their own offices in each state, are they taking depositions...

i just can't believe that massive an investigation wouldn't have ruffled repug feathers, becuase i can't imagine that 17,000 litigators would be 3 weeks into an investigation without once asking a question of anyone in the Boards of Electors across Ohio, or anywhere else.

and i don't have to know the name of the hotel where they are staying
i just don't see a ripple in the water or a bubble at the surface to hint that they are even working underwater.

sheesh. gimme something to hang to ....

whalerider

[henslee]

43. Thanks for being awake... and for elaborating.

I see absoutely nothing wrong with us calling Kerry on his "stuff" right now. And it would be nice if we had something to hang onto going into the holiday -- where the topic could be ciculate over turkey dinner.

[arikara]

39. I just wish that JK would hurry and do whatever he's going to do

before the chimp comes to Canada. We don't want him here.

[henslee]

44. Maybe you should meet him at the airport with a NO CHIMPS IN CANADA sign.

[whalerider55]

48. ha ha

shouldn't he have to be quaranteened for six months before they let him in?

whalerider55

[jdog]

50. right...

and de-fleaed

[Straight Shooter]

56. and de-loused

which means rove, condi and jenna can't accompany him

:evilgrin:

[ClassWarrior]

75. Ouch!

:7

NGU.

[tex-wyo-dem]

55. For what it's worth...

Here in TX where we, for the most part, get only right-wing talking heads on the radio, according to one of the local mouthpieces: before Kerry's concession, Edwards was adamant to put their lawyers to work and challenge the election...Kerry refused and went ahead with the concession.

Now, whether this is true or not is up to you to decide. If this really did happen, I have to applaud Edwards...and you have to wonder if Kerry had a more subtle approach in mind with Fallujah on the horizon, or if he just has '08 in his sights.

I guess we'll just have to see.

Comments?

[truehawk]

69. I heard this also

I also heard that there are kerry vollenteers watching the count, but I have no independant verification of that, and I have traded posts with lawyers that have returned home.

I am completly puzzled by the behavior of Kerry and all the Democratic Leadership. It is like the thugs have their families and they are waiting for James Bond or the FBI to save them.

[ClassWarrior]

76. Consider the source.

NGU.

[PATRICK]

61. Purposes of trolls

who know that Bush cheated. One: to smoke out whatever Kerry is doing, since it must be more than the pitiful amount surfacing officially. The recounts aren't even going to get done on time under the present conditions.

Two: the usual, to sow anger and dissension among people who would be otherwise better employed with vote protection actions. These get down to understandably dumping Kerry, the DLC, DNC, the Democratic Party and even go as far as expressing outrage to incite wilder actions and things destructive of the coalitions we will be needing.

In any event, it is premature to go off the deep end before we reach the end of the diving board. You will just smack your head and slip dead into the water. However I do despise the Defeated Leadership Committee. We should just take over their headquarters and boot them out.

We'll see. Hope is in the hands that work for it or we don't deserve rescuers from above. In the vacuum we shall lead. Enjoy the experience. Maybe it will last.

[RevCheesehead]

65. Hey there, CW!

It's nice to hear your voice of reason above the fray.

What I don't understand is that if people think the election is OVER, there is NO WAY to overturn the results, then why in the hell are they in this forum???

I've been astonished at what I've seen happen to my beloved DU in the last 3 weeks. People rudely interrupting threads, starting flame wars, the obnoxious cursing and name-calling... This isn't what I saw when I came here in July.

And before anyone goes ballistic on me, I am NOT saying that all low-posters are doing this. But I will say this: when I had low posts (like under 200), I made damned sure that I wasn't writing anything to disrupt or offend anybody. And I STILL try to be reasonable and objective. That's just common (or not-so-common) courtesy.


Maybe we should have some basic ground-rules:

1. No name-calling or personal attacks (I think that's in the rules).
2. If you disagree, then POLITELY say why. Don't shoot from the hip.
3. Not every post needs to be answered. If you feel attacked, hit the alert and tell the moderator why. THEN LET IT GO. Don't respond.
4. If you strongly disagree with a thread, THEN DON'T GO IN. I do not lurk in the "Atheists and Agnostics" group - for obvious reasons. But I also think they have a right to discuss whatever they please. It is not up to ME to change the world, or to make everyone be exactly like ME. (That's what fundamentalists do!)
5. Recognize when you're getting sucked in, and pull back. Take a break, hit the fridge, take a nap, watch a movie...

And if all that is too much to read and follow, try the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them DU unto you."

or the gospel of Rodney King: "can't we all just get along??"

RevCheese

[whalerider55]

66. wise

i'm in

whalerider

[ClassWarrior]

68. ~hugs~ Rev. Thanks for the smiles...

You're right. This isn't the real DU that we're seeing bursting into flames all around us. But I know that our true believers are hearty enough to withstand all the kiddie flames and kindergarten games.

And no, it's NOT all low-post-counters. In fact there are a number of folks with more than 1,000 posts who are firing their own subtle - and not so subtle - little flames. These creeps truly are devious.

At any rate, it's good to see another friend here - especially so late. Thanks.

NGU.

[RevCheesehead]

71. Thanks, Class, and have a great Thanksgiving!

I've GOT to get to bed - I'm hitting the road tomorrow morning. But I'm taking my password with me, and will be checking in from time to time.

oh yeah - NGU!

[ClassWarrior]

73. Godspeed, friend.

Have a wonderful T-Day. And never ever NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

77. Awwwww... whalerider55 has stopped kicking my thread...

LOL

NGU.

[RageKage]

78. How do i know that you're not a DLC agent?

Just kidding.

I still have faith. As I've posted elsewhere, if I was running for Prez - and I knew the vote would be fixed and had not been able to change it through legislation - out of anybody, I would want to talk to Kerry for advice. He is the one with the most experience in uncovering EXACTLY this type of high-level shenanigans.

And, BTW, I know that defamation law is different here in Canada, but here if you publicly accuse someone of fraud, it is up to you to prove that its true (on a balance of probablities) if they sue you. You can't just throw that word around. If you use it, you have to be ready to prove it in court (civil standard of proof).

[ClassWarrior]

81. It's all that Molson that does it to ya.

And yes, I am Al From. :7

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

84. Hey, you celebrate Canuck Thankgiving on a different day, don'tcha?

NGU.

[ebayfool]

91. Can I kick it instead? I kick 'real good'! LOL n/t

[ClassWarrior]

93. As long as you're not a troll, my friend...

...kick away!

NGU.

[ebayfool]

99. non-troll kick! n/t

[NH_Lib]

86. GELAC Contributions

These request for donations was up on this site in August when they started collecting for a potential recount. I would make sure that he is still collecting money to be used for Legal in this election before contributing.

[NH_Lib]

87. 17,000 Lawyers, Lets see what this means

17,000 lawyers @ $50.00 per hour. That is an expenditure of $850,000 an hour or 34,000,000 dollars per week. or in three weeks it is 102,000,000 that is 102 million bucks a week. For some reason I am not sure of the number 17,000 lawyers working on this. And do you know of lawyers who would work three weeks for free?

[ClassWarrior]

88. When did I mention 17,000 lawyers?

I bet it was a struggle to try and avoid saying "trial lawyers," wasn't it?

NGU.

[pat_k]

90. Quite a few when it's to preserve our government

>do you know of lawyers who
>would work three weeks for free?

Quite a few, particularly when you're talking about preservation of our government. Lawyers can be Patriots too.

[ebayfool]

92. Actually ... I do! Card carrying ACLU, pro-bono, not wealthy, good guys!

Most lawyers are just people like the rest of us, they do care about more than their own narrow confines. There's alot of smear attached to that profession, but consider most supreme court decisons are argue by attornies that do not recover the costs incurred. I don't buy into the popular hype, these people frequently are the catalyst for change for good!

[ClassWarrior]

94. So you're one of our valiant Public Protection Attorneys??

:yourock:

NGU.

[ebayfool]

95. Nope, but I have been helped a number of times ...

by a few of these guys. If it wasn't for the (pro-bono, mind you!) assistance that I got, I wouldn't have my grandson healthy & happy w/me now. And, they weren't from some legal aid center (haven't seen many of those around since the reagan years) either. These were word of mouth, friend of a friend, heard you need a helping hand - well let me help you guys! I used to think (to my shame) that they were akin to car salesmen, now - I can see the good that they do is frequently not advertised. So - I speak up.

on edit: I'm old enough that I've learned it's good to challenge my own preconceptions. I just don't always know what they are till I smack my head up against 'em!

[ClassWarrior]

96. Did you ever read "Don't Think of an Elephant" by George Lakoff?

He talks about what a slam dunk it is for the Radical RW to bash Public Protection Attorneys, because they're not only a threat to the corporatists' profits, but also because they donate so much to the Dems. So if you can discredit PPA's, you score a Radical RW two-fer.

NGU.

[carolinalady]

97. I don't know any lawyers that work for "50$/hr"

Plumbers make more than that! Most of thos lawyers are probably on stand-by but I would guess a great deal of them will not charge Kerry's campaign. After all, if Kerry wins--what great "political capital" (I've heard this term used a lot lately--lol). Further more I am sure that there are probably some write-off incentives.

[ClassWarrior]

98. The Radical RW would like us to think that everyone is as criminal...

...and cynically greedy as they are. I, for one, don't buy it.

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

100. what signs?

the only strong sign from Kerry so far was his cowardly concession on Nov 3.

He's got millions in recount funds and is not spending a dime. He's saving it for 2008, certainly, when he hopes to fool progressives again.

[99Pancakes]

101. I am glad you started this thread, Class Warrior

I have posted a number of times how I felt Kerry WAS involved and that (in the beginning) it was probably covert/not public. Later, Kerry came out with his video e-mailed to all of us directly stating he WAS going to count each vote. IMHO, it was wise to not splatter his intentions all over the papers so that the Republican'ts could have a field day slautering him---then, would the important work of checking into voter irregularites have advanced? btw, Kerry also interviewed with a local station where it was BLATANTLY stated (again) that the election was not over with.

But, Class Warrior, you are so right, and I had begun to wonder why so many of those Kerry-bashing threads were continuing because they were such a downer that even I began to ignore them.

Thanks for shining a light.

[ClassWarrior]

102. Well, it doesn't do us any good to form "circular firing squads"...

...as planetc so eloquently states in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=79654&mesg_id=80611&page=

NGU.

[99Pancakes]

103. PlanetC thinks s/he's full of logic

...and then s/he posted the exact thing twice--couldn't s/he think of anything new to say?

It was interesting, too, that one of the 1000+ people, when you confronted this individual about changing parties if they were so unhappy, then admitted to being an Independent....and well, so s/he doesn't have to change party affliation because s/he isn't a Democrat to begin! Ha! That was kinda ironic and funny.

[talk hard]

104. BushCo flunkie says a recount would be poor use of resources!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23344-2004Nov30.html
Kerry Team Seeks to Join Fight to Get Ohio County to Recount
Wednesday, December 1, 2004; Page A08

Sen. John F. Kerry's presidential campaign asked an Ohio judge yesterday to allow it to join a legal fight there over whether election officials in one county may sit out the state's impending recount.

A pair of third-party presidential candidates, who said that reports of problems at the polls on Election Day are not being addressed, are forcing the Buckeye State to recount its entire presidential vote. But David A. Yost, a lawyer for Delaware County, just outside Columbus, won a temporary restraining order last week blocking any recount there. He told the Columbus Dispatch that a second count would be a poor use of county resources. President Bush won the mostly Republican area handily, unofficial results show.

Lawyers for the Kerry campaign asked to join Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik and the National Voting Rights Institute in the fight to force the county to participate in the recount. "If there's going to be a recount in Ohio, we don't want it to exclude Delaware County or any other county that might decide to follow Delaware County's lead," Kerry lawyer Dan Hoffheimer said. "It should be a full, fair and accurate recount."

Bush won the critical battleground state by approximately 136,000 votes, a victory that also won him a second term.
Cobb's lawyers filed papers yesterday asking a federal court to take over the case, which is scheduled for state court.