I will NEVER vote absentee again!!

[4dsc]

I just received a notice that vote for this years elections did not count in the state of Iowa becausethe affidavit envelope was not sealed and thus rejected..

I called the country elections office to complain to no avail but ask how many others were rejected and the person replied "you have no idea" and I gathered that to mean alot!!

I will never vote absentee again!!

[Metatron]

1. I'm sorry.

That sucks.

[aquart]

2. Was the party designation on the outside of the envelope?

[geo]

10. I see where you are going...

but it is moot. Even if the party was concealed the seal could be tampered with carefully as to make it possible to undo the damage for votes one wanted to see "count." - G

[L84TEA]

28. ON the inside ENVELOPE...

SO THERE WAS A SECRECY THAT COVERED YOUR BALLOT, THEN AN ENVELOPE WHERE YOU PUT THAT IN AND YOU MARKED YOUR PARTY, THEN YOU PUT IT IN A MAILING ENVELOPE.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. sealed??? In what way sealed?

with a special seal to straddle the flap?

[GetTheRightVote]

5. Putting your vote on the absentee chopping block

I too, never again will I trust this government not to throw my vote away, never again will I trust these elected puppets to protect my vote, never again will I not march on lost rights, such as my vote.

I am going to march all over downtown Wash, D.C. this weekend and go on and on about the stolen election, even if I am alone it will make me feel so much better about everything .... I can't wait to see the looks on people's faces when I walk by with my sign. I am strong, I am an American, I have rights no matter what they say, I will be free, even if it is just me, I will march.

[damntexdem]

18. But the problem is that the vote may be thrown away ...

no matter how it is cast.

[pbartch]

30. I so admire you!

Good luck on your march. This is my wish for you.....that you ATTRACT FOLLOWERS. And your followers attract followers.

You ....and your followers will GROOOOOOOOOOOOW in number, in the hundreds, then THOUSANDS.

And.....me way over here in Oregon will hear about your MARCH and know you're a true American and you make a difference.

[Nickster]

4. When the Repukes started pushing absentee voting

I just knew something was wrong or was going to be wrong with it. I steered clear and took my sorry butt to the polls.

[shesemsmom]

6. In Indiana

I personally get and deliver absentees by the hundreds to the clerks office and I ride theirs asses until I know all is right. NOTHING gets past me.I've had voters call me with problems and I had a lot of problems this time. And they all got straightened out. Our clerk is a DEMOCRAT and A MORON. I make it my business to know the election law and if I don't know the answers I call state election board in Indy. That is what you need to do. They soon come to.........

[geo]

7. REPORT THIS REPORT THIS REPORT THIS!!!!

Hi 4dsc,

Please report this to all the orgs investigating voting irregularities now!!

Iowa's margin for Bush was about 10,000. I am wondering, based on your statement, if the absentee rejections across the State couldn't be the kicker.

Make sure to give them all the specifics.

So everything was compete on your ballot and affidavit, but the seal was broken? Did you try to seal it? Is sealing it a requirement?

Wow. Talk about ignoring voter intent.

Best wishes,

- George

[L84TEA]

8. holy SHIT!

I will never do it again either because GUESS WHAT??? YEAH YOU GUESSED IT... ME FUCKING TOO!!! I HAVE VOTED FOR 4 ELECTIONS... I POUNDED THE PAVEMENTS FOR MONTHS, WORKED MY ASS OFF... AND they said MINE WASN'T SEALED EITHER!!! I say PROVE IT YOU RIGHT WING NUT JOBS!! NOW WHAT??? I am soo pissed.

I have to see if any of my friends got rejected also.
I KNOW I SEALED BOTH ENVOLOPES! I followed the directions to a T!!

[geo]

14. This is Iowa's missing link I bet.....

Please, both of you. Report this to every org. looking into voting irregularities. This pocket of votes could shift the State tally, and you two have the particulars. If they regularly reject ballots that have a broken or loose seal, which can be done after the ballot leaves you hand, then something is really wrong. It sounds like they just through voter intent out the window, but we still have a chance at making sure this problem gets addressed. :) Please, pretty please, with sugar on top, report this? - G

[pbartch]

31. WE NEED A NEW THREAD FOR THIS TOPIC -- IOWA REJECTED BALLOTS

WE NEED A NEW TOPIC SO PEOPLE CAN SEE WHAT HAPPENED. That people who voted and FOLLOWED the rules were dis-infranzed.

MAKE A NEW TOPIC!!!!!!

[Cats Against Frist]

33. I fucking know this is Iowa's missing link

I tried to contact the Democratic party to tell them that their absentee balloting idea was a FABULOUSLY BAD ONE, as I, myself am a graduate student, and was almost unable to properly do what I was supposed to to get my ballot counted.

Since I applied for an AB, the only way they would let me vote at the polls -- or anyone that applied AB -- is if you BROUGHT YOUR UNVOTED ballot to the polls. However the door-to-door representative that signed me up, said, when I asked her "what if I just want to go to the polls," -- "Nothing. You just show up."

If I hadn't called the auditor, I might not have seen the ONE SENTENCE on the absentee ballot that said I had to bring it if I wanted to vote at the polls.

IMHO, there are also other things that could go wrong, as the original poster found out. I would have thought that that same person power for an election day GOTV and driving people to the polls, might have been smarter.

[geo]

21. Hi L84TEA.

Hi L84TEA,

Are you familiar with how challenges work in Iowa? Have you researched election code enough to see who can bring one about? All the same, please report this to all the orgs doing work in this area, and link them to this thread. If two of you happened to cross each other within several minutes, the odds are that many people in Iowa who vated absentee didn't get their vote counted. The margin is 10,000. This information is a red flag to check out the situation in Iowa.

If you can report this, please give us an update so we know who you forwarded this to and what kind of response you received. Also, does anyone else reading this thread have any specific recommendations on who to forward this particular complaint to?

This might be a good lead. :) Let's get busy!

Warmly,

George

[L84TEA]

24. Oh I am soo on it!!!

If I find out anyone else was rejected I am gonna freak!
I have been looking at Iowa's numbers and am appalled by some of the things.

For one thing Decatur county which is like the poorest meth-head community voted for the Chimp.
I have been questioning Iowa all along but I haven't really had any direction or help...I am not sure if there is a place they are working on it or not?

[a new day]

9. Had you sealed the envelope?

It is important to do so. If they accept a ballot in an unsealed envelope, how do they know it wasn't tampered with?

[bettyellen]

12. what's n/t ?

been thinking i would figure it out soon enough, but i can't!

[a new day]

16. n/t = no text in the message area n/t

[bettyellen]

20. how smart! thank you n/t

[juliagoolia]

11. I thought we outlawed voting tests

Geeeeeeeeesh..
Never mind what the voter wants, did he check this box that says he can see? No.. but did he read the rest of the form and fill it out correctly? yes.
obviously he can see, and only overlooked the stupid box

!!!!!!!!!
Geeeeeesh

We need a suffrage march.
I think it should start in East and move to the west coast.. Everyone goes to their County court house and marches around it starting at 8 am on jan 20th.
or some agreed upon time. when is the swearing in to take place? Geeeeeeeeesh

[tex-wyo-dem]

13. This could be a clear case of suppression

Report it!

What makes me madder than hell is where they do s**t like this and justify it based on some obscure, ridiculous rule. Taylor-made "guidelines" to suppress your vote.

[damntexdem]

15. You prefer to vote at your precinct ...

and not have it counted, as opposed to having your absentee vote not count?

How many really believe that the GOP will allow fair elections in the future, now that they have come so far in developing the technology of vote tampering?

[AmyCrat]

17. Sharing a story - an almost invalidated absentee ballot (slick!)

A relative of mine voted by absentee.

A large envelope came, with the ballot, instructions and a smaller envelope inside (to mail back the ballot).

On the instruction sheet in BIG letters it said "do not include anything other than the ballot in your return envelope."

Interestingly enough, she filled out her ballot and put it in the smaller envelope, but something caught her eye. A small piece of paper, folded long-ways (so it laid in the crease along the inside of the envelope). She pulled it out. It was a duplicate set of instructions on a smaller piece of paper, restating not to put anything else in the envelope but the ballot. She almost didn't notice it.

How slick is THAT? Had she not seen it, and she almost didn't, it would have invalidated her vote.

She's a registered democrat.

[L84TEA]

27. EXACTLY...

And MY husbands envelope was DIFFERENT THEN MINE!!
it came in a large envelope. You filled it out and stuck it in a secrecy folder then you put it in an envelope that you signed and checked your party, then you put it in the last envelope.

My husbands was a different material then mine, the envelopes were white. weird...

[WI_DEM]

19. If at all possible do vote in person

[bobbieinok]

22. DIL in IA voted absentee

Someone called her and offered to pick up and deliver her ballot. She thought about it (fortunately), said no, and mailed it in.

She is not sure if her vote counted.

[TennisGuy2004]

23. Send it to [e-mail]

[bullimiami]

25. dont bother at all.

the way the system is designed your vote is useless.

we dont fix it i dont bother.

[madison2000]

26. Isn't it terrible how we don't trust our voting process?

I voted absenteee two weeks ahead. I was nervous about the instructions on the outside of the envelope and whether it could be disqualified because of the witness I had sign it or my birthdate or some other such nonsense.

But they day of the election I went to my precinct voting location and said "Hey I'm not trying to vote twice here but how can I know that my ballot was received?" I was also a little concerned that they might let people who had already voted vote again. However, they correctly had me identified as having requested an ahsentee ballot.

The idea for me was to vote early - making the lines one person shorter so that no one would get tired of waiting and walk away.

I can't believe the fate of the world depends on this totally insecure, easily manipulated, flawed process. We've gotta fix it!

[West Coast Democrat]

29. In Oregon, everyone votes by mail and we don't have any problems

And I don't believe they go out of their way to disqualify ballots. It's too bad that in other states absentee voting is so sketchy. Many people are afraid to vote electronically, so they vote absentee.

[Northwestmom4Kerry]

32. Can you find out if your vote was counted?

How do you find out if your vote was counted or not?

[4dsc]

34. Here's what the letter stated

STATE OF IOWA

NOTICE TO VOTER OF REJECTION OF ABSENTEE BALLOT

You are hereby notified that your Absentee Ballot that was cast in the General Election on November 2, 2004, has been rejected for the following reason:

Iowa Administrative Rule 721-21.361(53) Rejection of Absentee Ballot. 21.361(3)An Absentee Ballot shall be rejected if the Affidavit Envelope is open..

If you have questions. please contact the Polk County election office at 515-286-3247..

Did I seal the Affidavit envelope I do not remember.. But that should be NO REASON to reject a ballot..

[SaveAmerica]

35. Open Absentee Ballot

Do Absentee Ballots have return addresses? Does Iowa have a web page that shows names of registered voters and their parties? (Ours is like that, just type in a name and party affiliation, address, and precinct pops up). If so it wouldn't take too much effort to see if the name on the address is reg. dem. or rep. and 'accidentally' open the envelope.

[4dsc]

37. They have a return envelope

and that is what the Affidavit envelope goes into for mailing.. I aurgued the outer envelope was sealed and thus no tampering could of should of taken place.. not good enough I guess.

Friday I'll investigate further..

[a new day]

50. Sorry, I have to disagree

"Did I seal the Affidavit envelope I do not remember.. But that should be NO REASON to reject a ballot.. "

The affidavit envelope is the outer envelope that the voter signs.

http://www.co.cerro-gordo.ia.us/Aud_11_02_04General_Absentee_Voting.pdf

If the carrier/mailing/affidavit envelope is not sealed, the security of the ballot is in potential violation. For instance, how do election officals know if a different ballot in a security envelope had been inserted after the voter mailed the ballot?

The verification is done as the ballots arrive, and the verified ballots may remain in storage for many days before election day. They must be sealed during this period, otherwise anyone with access to the storage location could change votes. That means the verifier would have to seal them, if they weren't rejected.

At the time a ballot affidavit envelope is being verified for voter registration and valid signature, a great deal of information about the absentee voter is known by the person handling it. Replacing the ballot with another would be pretty effective if the likelyhood of the selections were known.

[Vote4Kerry]

36. So angry to hear about this !!!

It made me so angry reading about what happened to your vote! We need to let everybody know about this!

[geo]

38. kick

kick

[mirandapriestly]

39. Absentee Ballots Give Vote to Bush

according to this article. Yet there are also many articles saying that far more dems than repugs in Iowa used absentee.
http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Nov/20041105News017.asp

[L84TEA]

43. Everyone I personally know that was

involved in the campaign voted absentee. So you are talkin lots of die hard dems. Not only that but most had all their family members and friends vote that way too. We pushed and pushed absentee... we were told too. But they were coloring states before they even had the ballots counted!! pissed me off.
I am just really upset about all of this.

[L84TEA]

44. My county

This is my county

Here is the absentee Requests per party. (this is by mail)
Dems-10312
Repugs-2625

Here is in person requests for absentee
Dems-7276
Repugs-2968

Now I know my county is strong Dem, yet... look at the absentees.. Dems were workin those absentees hard. I truly believe they are swappin votes in places...
I am gonna look at some other county statistics.

[progressoid]

45. Where did you get the absentee info from?

[L84TEA]

47. sorry I should of said that

That is Johnson County.
Here is the link for the main election summary

http://www.johnson-county.com/auditor/returns/0411elec.htm

here is the link for the absentee info

http://www.johnson-county.com/auditor/returns/0411stat.htm

(just scroll down a bit all the absentee stuff in on this page)

[ever_green]

40. avoid early voting too. I don't think they are counted.

[Magic_Cookie]

41. So let's sum this up

If you voted straight party ticket - prolly didn't count
If you voted absentee & had any problem they could find - didn't count
If you voted provisional & had any problem - didn't count

Hmmmm....what should we do? about 6 of 1 1/2 dozen of the other! ARGHT! So much for democracy!

[L84TEA]

42. ugh... I don't even know anymore

It is a sad time we live in.

[jamboi]

46. I think absentee is hazardous. often counted late. t/n

[imenja]

48. absentee ballots are discarded at a much higher rate than any other vote

that's why I questioned the wisdom of the Kerry campaign's pushing absentee ballots. Still, that's how I voted. It saved waiting in lines. I just hope mine was counted.

[4dsc]

49. I'll find out Friday

whether or not they have a total of absentee ballots that were discarded!!

This sucks!!

[Trahurn]

51. I sympathize but..........

I sympathize with you and I also voted by absentee ballot but if you are upset because your vote was thrown out for cause I'm afraid I have to defend your local voting people. If we are talking about all things being on the up and up they simply must throw out any vote where the seal is compromised. As much as I hate to say this many people, especially this year were not familiar with absentee ballot voting and some of the peculiarities that go along with it. Many people simply just did not read the published warnings about correct postage and such matters as a defeated seal. Now in this case many local post offices went ahead and delivered mailed ballots with insufficient postage even though they were under no obligation to do so and if you have a broken seal no matter what the reason with the truth being that most such problems are mistakes or over sites by the ones that mailed these ballots, must be thrown out. You cannot sit around and try and second guess if an absentee voter screwed up and did not properly seal the envelope or if someone tried to vandalize the ballot. You simply have to go with the condition of the ballot. If the ballot does not pass mustard on the condition it must be in to be counted,again I sympathize but officials really have no other choice.
It is one thing to have an extremely perplexing butterfly ballot that would fool virtually anyone who attempted to use it and it is another to not properly seal, fill out and/or sign the required lines or attach the correct postage on an absentee ballot.
As for myself. I will continue to vote by absentee ballot. I wish you better luck the next time you vote. By the way. As this thread is increasingly showing, even a vote at a polling place isn't necessarily more secure. Maybe even less.