I am REALLY pissed off at DEAN

[Carolab]

He said he doesn't see this effort to prove fraud/recounts etc. as being a priority.

WTF??????????????

He could help to mobilize Deanies all over the country!

I'm beginning to think he's "part of the fix".

Anyone else feel that way?

I think we should all just drop kick anyone who isn't helping us with this thing and KEEP Nader, Cobb and Badnarik.

[New Earth]

1. ok

i'm beginning to see that maybe saracat is right, what she heard.

it seems they just don't want Kerry to win. And maybe never did.

it all makes me nauseas.

[indigo11153]

23. No

saracat is not right and that thread that she started was the one the silliest threads I have ever seen at the DU. I am not trying to flame here but I am sick of people bashing my beloved Democratic party. If Jesse said the election was fair and Dean said the same then friends something is a foot. Believe it! I am going to give money to the OHIO Democrats and I plan to go to Ohio if I am needed. I am going to support my party and make ready for war. :nuke:

[Eric J in MN]

2. When and where did Howard Dean say that? NT

NT

[IAMREALITY]

3. And You're Getting This From Where??

LINK PLEASE!!!!!!!!

:mad:

[Kralizec]

4. I think Dean has a plan, though it may not be the same as ours and

I don't think he has sold anyone out. Dean can't be derailed because he is doing what the repugs did so many long years ago. He is getting the democrats in at the local level so that they have a very strong base in the future, just like the repugs do now...

[geo]

5. Very odd, indeed....

Hi there,

Do you have source on that comment so we can check it out? It seems like the rhetoric machine went into full gear today, with key figures on both sides criticizing the recount/fraud investigation efforts. Jesse Jacksons statement, frankly, didn't shock me, but Dean?

Personally, I would like to read the statement in context to figure out what the heck is going on. If this guy is looking to lead the DNC, and is making comments like this... it just doesn't make sense.

- George

[ProudToBeLiberal]

6. source, proof, evidence please.

[KatieB]

7. DON'T BE FOOLISH

Look how the Neocons are all over Jeff Fischer. Dean is just playing the game well. The best way to play your hand is not to show your cards.

[ahyums]

10. the Neo Cons are all over Fisher? really? I thought they were just

ignoring him or never even heard from him in the first place yet?

[lessthanjake]

8. "part of the fix"?????

Cmon people this is ridiculous. Listen to yourself.

[nashville_brook]

9. yeah, we need to chill

mondays suck -- let the wheels of stuff work.

[pretzel4gore]

11. Who's being conned?

we live in 'grim historical reality'..... and at least half of voters voted against geeb (brother of john ellis bush, or jeb)and there are tens/thousands more who never voted, or couldn't due to the repukes; the question is, given the nazipoo control of the very theatre, not to mention the show that's being shown, price of admission, seating arrangement , fire alarms and so on, maybe it better idea to say to yourself "self, we aint got nobody but dean kerry etc, and knowing the enemy as we do, maybe best bet is to continue to put our trust in our leadership, cuz we got nothing to lose'. dean and kerry edwards etc are pro politicians, they know the depravity of the busheviks, and the biggest weapon we have is the legal system ....so do not give up, there's plenty to do for everyone and time is on our side (besides, bush has the entire federal gov apparatus to crush any direct assault, so direct assaults are out, at least for now)....
There's so much we do not know, not in our wildest speculations...bush is corrupt and stupid, unfit and unelected...that's plainly obvious. cheer up and look ahead
:)

[Yuugal]

12. tinfoil on!

There are only two possible realities on this recount/fraud issue:

1) prominent dems have seemed to sit down because they all know its really over........

2) prominent dems have seemed to sit down because they all know not only was it rigged, but they can prove it, and there is really no point in having Kerry, Dean, Jesse or anyone else make a fuss until the real fun starts. I know my hat is starting to glow, but if this were the case and I was Kerry, I might just call Dean and ask him to say something like he said to make the other side think we've really given up and its just "those usual crazies on the left fringe" like Nader and Cobb who are only trying to make a bigger name for themselves. Most dem sites like DU and moveon are still primed and ready to go into battle, so no danger in people on our side losing interest, that much everyone has seen. ;) On the other side though, its best to let the nest go into hibernation before the recount so we don't have so many storm troopers showing up like in Fla in 2000.

As other posters have noted, we need to be prepared for #1 but hope for #2.

[libertypirate]

13. Sorry, ring ring pickup the clue phone....

People... All of you

If the pubicans can't play this out in the media they have a hard time destroying and confusing the truth. This is the world we live in folks. The media is not journalism it's perceptionism which can destroy any legitimate effort in no time. Here is the deal, if the pubicans bring it up they look guilty; so they really can't. If the dems bring it up you can guess the spin; aka sour grapes.

If it comes from people who were not contenders well that is different story as in what do they have to gain but the truth. It builds historical legitimacy, which is very tough to spin into "mad that they lost". Am I getting through at all?

In the end it won't be the truth that matters one lick it will be the public perception. Perception based on perception is never good for the truth, but perception after the facts is not so easy spin out of control.

Look at the exit polls stories, the perception that exit polls are just polls and can be wrong does not answer the fact that historically they have been quite accurate. The perception that they can be wrong exists before the truth they are generally accurate.

[Sodium Pentothal]

20. this is the truth

if we cry and scream until some big Dem feels compelled to say, "i am with you", it would completely undermine this effort.

If there is a plan, if this is going according to plan, then the grassroots evidence-gathering has to of been beyond their wildest expectations. There are people all over teh country, Joe and Jan Public, who are standing up and saying, 'now lemme have a look at them numbers.'

When this blows, if this blows, the perception has to be, WOW. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WERE FUDGED UP THEIR PIEHOLES. ANything less will not last and will do no good.

[libertypirate]

26. don't know

I don't know why others don't see this?

[mzmolly]

14. ROTFLMAO!

"Part of the fix" :eyes:

I think some posters are ...

I know ! Let's keep Nader Cobb Badnarik and ... BUSH!!! :toast:

[dewaldd]

15. Absolutely. The 3rd parties need to unite and clean house.

And after 4 more years of Bush ruining us, and 4 more years of Democrats being their prison bitches, you can be sure that Nader/Cobb/Badnarik will have a major chance--as long as we can get hand-counted ballots.

Enough of this bullshit. Check out http://www.votescam.com
The democrats are in on this little "game."

[mzmolly]

16. Yeah that's the ticket

to four more years of Republican hell. No thanks. 8 years of HELL is enough for me thanks, and for the children of this and many other countries.

[ever_green]

21. That sounds like a plan.

I agree, 3rd parties are not yet corrupted.

[redsoxliberal]

17. graaaaaaaahahhahahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahaahhahahahhahahahhahahaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahhahhahahahhahahhahahhahahhahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaaaaaaaa

woooooooo.

Ok... so everyone else rolls over completely... Dean mentions it but says there are more important issues... And you are angry at... DEAN???

WHAT THE FUCK?

You take Dean for granted, yet hate him and bash him whenever you get the chance? I really am starting to think that DFA should become a new, viable party to get away from the DLC fucks.

[Carolab]

18. I have been a Deaniac since day one and am a member of DFA

So I am hardly a Dean-basher or a Bush promoter or Naderite, or whatever.

The information I have is from an insider close to Dean who talked to him about it. So either this person is full of it or Howard is playing coy.

In any case, I think that of all people Dean could be an outspoken voice on the need to investigate this election and on the likelihood that it was rigged. After all, he did have Bev Harris on Topic A with Tina Brown to show how easily the Diebold GEMS software is hacked, right?

So where is his voice now? And why is there nothing on his website about investigating the vote or helping with recount efforts?

I don't get it. DFA was involved heavily in GOTV efforts. So why not this?

[a new day]

27. In other words, you're spreading a rumor n/t

[Carl Brennan]

19. There is either a vast left wing conspiracy to

be quiet and let the process of counts and recounts run its course. Or the folks to the right of Dubya have all suddenly gone zombie.

I think its the former. I hope its the former.

[ever_green]

22. He has a point.

If he did say that, I'm sure he had good reason. There ARE many other important issues.

[springhill]

24. What do issues matter.........

if we don't have a say in them by electing the people we want to represent us. I can't think of anything more important, whether this election was stolen or not, than to make sure than there is absolute TRANSPARENCY in our voting, and that means getting rid of anything that is not going to immediately produce a written record of our votes.

We would be yelling and screaming if other countrys held the peoples votes in secret.

[breadandwine]

25. FLASH BULLETIN! Blogger calls march on Fox NOW!

Combined protest against Fox and the rigged election —

The objective is specifically to challenge the wall of silence on the rigged election by news outlets like Fox and make a breakthrough —

Please spread this around, check it out and kick it —

A blogger has posted an extremely detailed, specific call to protest the rigged election AND the suppression of the truth ABOUT the rigged election by Fox News — a combined event mass march protest to be held in New York City — AT — Fox headquarters on 6th Avenue —

Main protest chant —

“Rupert Murdoch, tell the truth! Fascists rigged the voting booth!”

Nobody thinks of marching against a news organization in the streets. This is going to be a shot heard round the world.

Very comprehensive protest plan with very helpful travel details, the works —

See blog on this,

“A Call To March On Fox —

For refusing to tell the truth about the rigged election!” —

http://acalltomarchonfox.blogspot.com/

Discussion thread in General Discussion Forum — please help keep this kicked —

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2688242

“A Call To March Against The Rigged Election”

Please spread these links around to help us organize this.

Please join that discussion there and help keep it kicked. Marching on Fox starts at post 117. But read the whole discussion. And read the blog. Discussion also discusses an earlier blog on marching against the rigged election and media. Second blog being discussed is on a specific, detailed call to march on Fox specifically as a key initial part of this protest against the rigged election. Fox is a key ENABLER of the rigged election. They’d never get away with election rigging on such a vast scale if it weren’t for news suppressers/distorters like Fox. Read both blogs.

Tremendously detailed comprehensive blog —

It gives the exact location in New York City of all of Rupert Murdoch’s empire, New York Post, Fox News, News Corporation (Murdoch’s big parent company — it owns almost everything else he’s got) — all of that — it’s all in a single building on 6th Avenue between 47th Street and 48th Street in mid-Manhattan. Murdoch’s own office is in the building too. We can be chanting against him right outside his window. All their offices are not on very high floors either — as low as the second floor — they’ll see and hear us and have to pass us on the way in. All those blow-hard Fox talking heads lying about the election — we’ll be in direct shouting matches with them as they come and go. And Fox itself is on the SECOND Floor. How good is their studio soundproofing in there????? Everybody at Fox is going to be bitching that they can’t get any work done. There’s no way they can hush this up.

Since it’s a vicious circle — news organizations like Fox suppress our protests, making them seem futile, therefore the proposal is to combine objectives and protest Fox AND the rigged election TOGETHER right outside Murdoch’s building and tie the two evils together — “Murdoch suppresses the truth about the rigged election!” — and invite other New York news organizations, many of whom DETEST Murdoch, to cover it. (You didn’t know New York news people and news executives hate Murdoch? Blog goes into that a lot.)

Blog has many links to anti-Murdoch resources and video of Bill O’Reilly telling everybody to shut up, shut up, shut up, over and over. What a sewer rat! Right on camera! He looks really mean and drunk in one of the film clips. Jack Daniels? And he’s on camera hotly lecturing us, “It is our duty as all loyal Americans to shut up.” The video nails him good — and Fox. Blog gives other video links too.

Tired of being told to shut your trap? Open it. March against Fox and the rigged election in New York City.

But the idea is to put it all together, to protest and denounce Fox outside their offices for leading the COVER-UP of the election heist. It’s a shot across the bow to the rest of the media that they better start telling the truth about the election, or they’ll get protests like the one at Fox. All the national news media are based in Manhattan. They can’t say this protest was too out of the way to get to.

Blog also has links to downloadable anti-Fox flyers, petitions and other resources against Fox that could be distributed at the protest march.

Blog goes into tremendous detail about the strategy, the advantages of starting protests in New York as opposed to other cities (huge liberal population would augment people coming from out of town), and it’s the news media capital of the world. Very friendly terrain. New York Democratic congressmen are demanding investigation of the stolen election. No rednecks in the population or the government, no paranoid security apparatus like you have in D.C.

Blog includes complete “mother lode” total orientation guide to using New York subways with downloadable maps you can enlarge, how to use mass transit to get from Amtrak’s Penn Station to the march, how to use mass transit to get from the airports to the march.

Let’s make it happen!

Keep kicking that thread so everyone will hear of this!

[helderheid]

28. We've talked to Dean's cousin

Chris Corroon, first cousin to Dean and twin brother of Peter Corroon, Salt Lake County's recently elected County Governor, and asked Chris to ask Dean about being the spokesperson for this effort to show the fraud and expose the BBV issues. Chris said he would get the word to him but to keep in mind that he's being considered for the DLC chair role. I think there's your answer. Politics are dirty and they suck and you have to play the game to get anywhere, unfortunately.