Zogby Speaks Out

[IAMREALITY]

This link was buried in another thread, and it doesn't seem to have gotten the attention it deserves, or at least I haven't seen it elsewhere. If it has already been widely read then my apologies, but I thought it was a great read and thank member MDB for supplying the link...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1118-11.htm

*snip*
"Zogby, whose firm was not among those that provided network TV coverage of the Nov. 2 election, described the possibility of either incompetence or fraud causing the controversial deviation as "impossible."

According to Zogby, it would have required "wrong sampling in wrong areas throughout the country," or the purposeful manipulation of data to obtain exit poll results so significantly different from the official totals. He viewed neither as a possibility.

When asked what exactly had happened then, Zogby replied, "a problem, but I don't know where it is ... something's wrong here, though."

[Old and In the Way]

I think we know the answer

It's the correlation between exit polls and voter verifiable paper trails. Rather obvious, I think.

[NJ_Lib]

1. Not incompetence or fraud...

Then WHAT? A glitch? I think they already told you what the chances are of so many "glitches" occuring on the same night, in different states...

What is it then, Zogby? The boogie man made himself invisible and fucked with the machines? Idiot...

[IAMREALITY]

4. Whoaaaaaaa Hold Up there Killer!!!!

Read the article. Take it in context. He is not dismissing fraud as in 'stole the election' fraud, he is dismissing fraud on the part of the pollsters, that the pollsters manipulated the poll to make it look like kerry was winning.... Sheesh

[NJ_Lib]

6. That's what happens when people don't read...

the whole article... Sorry... I'm pissed at everybody right now... Just looking for a reason to jump on someone, anyone... Thanks for pointing out to me that I'm a boob... Because I am...

[IAMREALITY]

7. Nahhhh, Take It easy, It's all Good

We are all about ready to explode right now, I feel for ya, and can more than relate....

[NJ_Lib]

9. :)

Thank you for your kindness... It feels good to know others are short-fused right now too... Thank you! :)

[Chimpanzee]

23. I just took the head off of a 80 year old man in my fav tavern

last night - and he voted for Kerry! He had the audacity to tell me I should 'just get over it and move on' and I lost it. Add another bar to the long list of the ones I can't show my face in again.

[goldengreek]

13. I've been SO belligerent lately.

I've been yelling in traffic, and Wednesday at work I was tearing into people. I'm normally much more under control.

My back has been killing me, too. Even when I wake up first thing in the morning my shoulders are worn out from being tight and clenched up all night, and my upper back has been spasming out lately.

[pacalo]

19. Yep!

[goldengreek]

5. Zogby has to be CAREFUL.

People's planes drop out of the sky when they cross this administration.

[gapower]

8. True ...

:(

<img src="">

[Pirate Smile]

2. Here is a link to the thread that had this article yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x61868

[bleever]

3. Zogby shakes his dazed noggin and starts to realize that he too

has been Bushwacked!

They're making a chump out of you John. What are you going to do about it? ;)

[jdog]

10. Reality...

you really need to check your research more closely. That was a misquote worthy of the chimp!

[IAMREALITY]

16. Ummmm What the Heck Are You Talking About n/t

[zann725]

11. Actually Zogby posted an article last week, "I Smell A Rat" on website...

Last week, Zogby had a Nov. 12 article ('safely' written by someone else) posted on his website called, "I Smell A Rat" talking about voting irregularity. It was quite good, and I saw it posted somewhere on DU last week, though the article now is no longer on Zogby's site.

Clearly Zogby's being cautious, but he's also a skilled Pollster. Probably one of the best. But like all the other statisticians, and pollsters, he (more than us) "sees" the truth.

[goldengreek]

14. I was very careful about that article.

I'd assumed it actually had his backing, but I wouldn't have bet on that openly. Looks like it really did.

[liberalnurse]

12. We know what happen....

There is a trail ......we smell it.

[99Pancakes]

15. Thanks for this

There was an earlier thread, but the link was quickly old and the story was no longer there. I asked for a link, but alas.......
Anyway, Zogby's comments are very telling, and Yes! to everyone wondering why the MSM is so silent on all this. It's getting surreal to me.

[JD Lau]

17. Kick!

[gapower]

24. SOrry, I'm a n00b

Whass kick mean?

[TexasChick]

29. Kick is just simply replying to the original poster's thread. You pick

Kick in the subject line because when you reply to a post, it goes "back to the top" of the forum, i.e. the top of the "2004 Election Results and Discussion" forum for more exposure.

[slackmaster]

18. Sorry, but no statistician calls anything impossible

Extremely improbable, difficult to believe, etc. would be credible, but people who work with polls and samples always speak in terms of probability that a result is due to chance.

Sorry to nit-pick like this, but I got straight 'A's in stats in my undergraduate work.

[pacalo]

20. The stats we're talking about are the exit polls --

surveys of individuals who had just cast ballots before questioned by pollsters. Before Bushitler ever stole an election, these exit polls were an accurate way of predicting the winner.

[slackmaster]

25. Yes, exit polls have always been accurate in the past

:eyes:



An exit poll samples a subset of the actual vote, therefore there is always some probability (quantifiable) that the result of the exit poll will differ from the result of the actual poll. There is also a possibility (not quantifiable) that some people will tell the person conducting the exit poll something different from how they actually voted.

[Name removed]

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[slackmaster]

35. Are you capable of being civil in this discussion?

The personal attacks are really inappropriate.

And for the record, I have only joined a few weeks ago.

Gee, I never would have guessed!

I suggest you read the Message Board Rules, in particular this part: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#civility

[IAMREALITY]

36. Not a Personal Attack By Any Means

I am responding to the context of your posts. Completely Allowable. Maybe if your posts had anything of more substance to them I would have more to respond to. Way I see it, not my problem..

[slackmaster]

39. Laugh Laugh Laugh

Go read those rules.

[anamandujano]

21. Everyone knows him and trusts him.

If he decided to lend his weight to this, then we finally have our big story.

And, he needs to have several burly body guards with big guns, as he probably should anyway considering his power over this story.

[slackmaster]

26. Too bad Advanced Search is down

I am quite sure that I remember some DUers bad-mouthing Zogby as biased toward the GOP or toward whoever pays for the poll, when his polls showed Bush in the lead months before the election.

Everyone knows him and trusts him, especially when he says what they want to hear.

:argh:

[anamandujano]

30. Okay, rephrase

I recall that when the polling was all over the place in 2000, he was spot on and predicted the outcome (of the exit polls, which we all know were for Gore and that Gore did win once the votes were counted).

That is why everyone was happy that he was predicting a win for Kerry a few days before the election, and again he was spot on with the exit polls, which have been excellent for every other election that didn't involve the incompetent unelectable George Bush.

And if he were for the GOP, then a democrat would never be in front in his polls. In short, he has a reputation for getting the polls right.

[IAMREALITY]

40. Who Really Cares?

That post seems misguided. I personally never blasted Zogby or his Polls. I have always considered them to be some of the most accurate. And even if others here did blast them, who really cares? That doesn't change the message of this thread. We need as many respected voices as possible supporting this cause. Any, yes, ANY mention of the potential problems of this election is a positive for us, but that post seems you don't want us to have positive energy..

[NCvoter]

22. This is a big deal

If the best pollster from 2000 has serious questions, then how can there be any doubt that this is a big fucking deal?

[NJ_Lib]

27. Thank you, Mr. Zogby!

Quote Something is definitely wrong," said Zogby Quote



YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!


Mr. Zogby... Please forgive me... I was an ass and I'm sorry...

[Straight Shooter]

37. Zogby is keenly aware that his butt is on the line

His livelihood depends on his accuracy. I don't think he's going to shrug his shoulders and say, "Whoopsie, the exit polls just might have been wrong."

I'll believe those exit polls were wrong when the laws of gravity are suspended on the first Wednesday of every month. And the likelihood of that happening is zero, zilch, nil, nada.

There were a lot more factors at play on November 2. And then that heinous press conference with "The Family" gathered together, just before they stomped their collective jackboot on the neck of America.

Something stinks. If Zogby claims to smell it, too, so much the better.

[IAMREALITY]

38. Finallllllly!!!!! The Re-Injection Of Logic

Thank you Brother. Very Well Said

[shelley806]

41. Thanks so much for the post; I can see why people were confused

without having read the entire article, where it becomes clear that Zogby refers to the chances of the exit polls being wrong as impossible; not the final count being tampered with. This is most encouraging, and I hope that Zogby continues to speak out...I remember how happy I was when he was on TDS with Jon Stewart. I was so hopeful and positive that Kerry would win! (which he did, just like Gore in 2000)