One minute update on Kerry staff involvement in Ohio

[JudyM]

On the Tony Trupiano show a moment ago the guest, Cliff Arnebeck, an attorney involved in the Ohio recount, discussed the status of the recount effort. He mentioned that the Kerry folks are fanned out on the ground and he believes their plan is to first get a sense of the situation (type and extent of problems, how close the numbers are) and then make a determination as to next steps.

[ArkDem]

1. I'm breathless.

[blm]

2. I, for one, am glad they are doing it quietly.

Let Bush and Fallujah be making all the news. For now.

[JuniperLea]

4. i agree!

he has bushco and the media ready to jump all over him for this. erring on the side of caution is a good thing.

[MrUnderhill]

5. There isn't an unlimited amount of time.

Ohio uses punch cards like Florida - and we know how long THAT took to recount.

We can't wait forever.

[TexasChick]

7. I thought the Green party has already pushed for a recount? n/t

[JudyM]

11. Right, they initiated the recount, but the Kerry folks are observing

[TexasChick]

13. Exactly, JudyM. In fact, I think this is part of the Dems strategy. n/t

[MrUnderhill]

22. They are READY to....but

they can only apply AFTER the election is certified (within five days I think).

I'm also not sure that it "must" be granted. I've read through the statute and it says WHO may request a recount, and that they MUST recount in certain close races (much closer than it currently stands), but nothing that bears directly on this.

I was just saying that there's a finite amount of time for ACTUAL COUNTING before Congress steps in and has their way with us.

[John Q. Citizen]

37. Ohio has a uniform law for counting punch cards and chad

Kerry is playing this the right way and isn't needed overtly right now

[Old and In the Way]

6. That is good news.

I've been getting more concerned about the seeming lack of Democratic response to this issue. If it's still being looked into, I feel better...

[Ladyhawk]

43. Me too.

I still feel abandoned, but maybe that's premature. I'll apologize publicly if Kerry bounces back fighting at the appropriate time.

[knowbody0]

3. i hear the calvary

[KC21304]

9. You mean we have been crucified ?

:)

[crispini]

18. Ok, that took me a moment....

but I got it. :D

[Robbien]

8. Yeah right. I heard that one before.

And step two is that we should STFU and wait.
Step three, time passes and all is "old news".

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JudyM]

12. Maybe so, but I'd prefer to be cautiously hopeful...

[Roy]

16. Birds of a feather??????

Welcome to the group!!!!!!

[merh]

30. Welcome to DU

It seems to me that pessism is a trait shared by many with the DLC.

The party can never win another election unless we move right.
We must change and reform and oppose abortions and gays to win an election.
We must reach out to the moral majority, christian fundies.

:boring:

[JudyM]

31. Oppose abortions and gays? Say more... seems undemocratic...

[merh]

32. Don't you know, that was suggested to Kerry prior to the election

that he should come out against abortion and opposing gay marriages. Thank goodness he held to his principles.
The DLC is the right arm of the party, they see winning at all costs as being more important than civil rights, poverty, et cetera.

[JudyM]

35. okay, I didn't pick up on the sarcasm. whew.

[merh]

38. No problem, since the post I responded to was deleted

it is easy to understand the confusion! LOL - I have no desire to see the party move right and I think we won, so I see no need to.

[Ladyhawk]

44. I have mixed feelings about abortion, but now is not the time to argue.

We must look into voting irregularities first, then dialogue on certain issues can begin.

Note: I don't want abortion outlawed under Republicans! They don't care about babies after they're born or the mother, either. :mad:

[ClassWarrior]

19. Good Morning Mary Sunshine!!

NGU.

[Robbien]

23. Just calling em as I sees em. Didn't know that was breaking

the sunshine bunny rule.

Okay, we should all wait around for this super secret below the radar investigation.

and wait...

and wait...

and wait...

[John Q. Citizen]

40. We should win.

If that means Kerry is below the radar, then so be it.

In Kerry "concession" speech he said the people will count the votes, and that's just what we are doing.

The Glibs (Greens and Libertarians) are calling for volunteers to help them recount. If you are itching for action that's where the action is

[Straight Shooter]

14. Assess, discuss, take action

Good plan.

[htuttle]

15. "Get a sense of the situation, then make a determination..."

That's an awful lot of management-speak.

It sounds like they are trying to read the political spin more than the ballots.

Forgive me if I feel a lot more trust for the Green Party at the moment...

[Robbien]

17. Exactly. The same plan they had for investigation of 9/11

and every other investigation led by politicians.

The Greens are outsiders who may have a shot at getting something done.

[whalerider55]

26. at this point, with democracy in the US at stake...

we still a two-party country- the Greens and the Libertarians.

just my opinion, but the repugs have stolen it, and the dems seem to want to observe, assess, and ....

we are really no longer talking about whether Kerry has the votes. maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. but we do know that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that there was large-scale, multi-state efforts to ROB US CITIZENS OF THIR RIGHT TO VOTE.

Shouldn't we get to the bottom of that, publicly and very aggressively?

because if we don't, if we can't guarentee that every vote is counted as cast, 2008, 2012, none of it really matters any more, does it?

am i missing something here? if the electoral system has no integrity, where do we go from there? get better hackers than them?

whalerider55

[faithfull]

20. BUT....

We have to remember that this is not about John Kerry. This is about improving our voting systems. The green party is pushing for that know...and for that i say, rock on :headbang:

:donut:

[Joylaughter]

21. I agree

and I trust the Glibereetarians to do this.

[Blue in the face]

24. Just imagine what would happen if Kerry went crying fraud

If Kerry tried to go public with this, not only would the Freepers and the corporate media make him look like the biggest asshole of all time, but no one would listen. I think that Kerry is biding his time and hoping to hell that he's got the goods on this election. He didn't give up last December or in Iowa when he was counted out, he just figured out a new way of handling his campaign.

I'm just as anxious and worried as you that the Dems are going to let this die. I've sent out several emails to local activists and Democrats in the hopes of creating a local activist group to get the word out about the voter irregularities. I've been told by pretty much anyone who has bothered to email me back that I should just give up and focus on next election.

I can't imagine that all of these people would want to ignore actual evidence of fraud if/when it is discovered. But even if they are not, I can tell by this board that I won't be the only one dragging them kicking and screaming into the movement to re-defeat George Bush. And I have a feeling that after 2 years of campaigning, Kerry won't sit on his ass and let the opportunity pass either.

[Robbien]

29. Just imagine if the Greens found GOP fraud and Kerry was not involved

in the investigative effort. Kerry's future in politics would be over. I believe that is why his campaign is floating these rumors that Kerry is helping the effort under the radar.

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Why? I disagree with your analysis

[BeFree]

34. "...give up and focus..."

Yeah, what the hell is wriong with these people? Give up? Geez. But ya know, that is what's wrong with Dems, they give up too easy, if it were b*sh down in Ohio we'd be reading and hearing about Ohio every two minutes.

No matter what they say, you keep at 'em until they are blue in the face. I'm with ya, most of this board is with ya, and together we will solve this friggin' voting problem.

[mitrueblue]

25. Ho Ho Ho

Let's just hope for a very merry merry Christmas!

[Road Scholar]

27. Right now, 'till this Ohio vote count flips the election, I'll say.....

Bahh Humbug. If it flips and Kerry wins, I'll say,"MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! HO HO HO!

[bearfan454]

28. They are smart to do it like this.

Get all the ducks in a row first.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. One good thing about no media coverage, but...

But who cares what they say or think anymore. We have to move and stop reacting to every putdown or accusation..stand up for something

[jbond56]

36. good sign

I think he is following nixon's plan. The major difference is that nixon was hoping he roved enough votes. We know people stood in line for hours. We know repukes were challenging voters in order to raise their election day "totals". We know the national popularity vote is just a string of numbers. If Kerry lost it was due to dirty politics. It would suck but shrub is pretty screwed. After all the recounts the term mandate will be meaningless.

We will beat dirty politics someday. The next day we will still have our morals, values, and most importantly our dignity.

I think all the resignations are a rove tactic. With so many they can pick a new person each week. Thus disrupting the news cycle. So still along way to go.

[Hosnon]

39. I don't even want to say this outloud but I get the feeling that for

ONCE the liberals in this country are being tactically intelligent. I hope this works!

[Pooka Fey]

42. I agree. Kerry played this brilliantly.

I will have to send a letter of apology to his people to make up for the letter I sent on Nov. 6th or so blasting him and the DNC for betraying all of us, and leaving us all alone to swing in the wind. He had me completely fooled.

[jmatthan]

45. I don't think you have to apologise

Read the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=53645&mesg_id=53645

and see my post there.

It is a case of incompetence of the highest order and Bushlite behaviour - inablity to accept having made a mistake!!

Kerry could not see what the rest of the world, like me in Finland. Hardly the behaviour of a statesman to show his character and forethought.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[TexasChick]

46. This article is heresay. It is just one man's opinion. He does not have

evidence that Kerry did not know about the fraud, or at least, I don't think he substantiates it. Kerry brought down the BCCI, which Poppy Bush was implicated. Please stop trashing Kerry. He is not incompetent. And what mistake is he suppose to accept? This man spent two years of his life campaigning for this election, mortgaging his house and he is suppose to own up to a mistake? I guess he is suppose to apologize that fraud took place. I absolutely thinks he knows fraud has happened. Do you think he is going to allow the Repuketards to know? You do not let your enemies know ahead of time for your attack.

jmatthan, I will make a pact with you, okay? If the Chimp is inaugurated in January, then, I say, we all can scream at Kerry, okay, and call him a liar and incompetent. Please, don't put down Kerry just yet. It isn't fair.

[Pooka Fey]

47. Just what she said ! n/t

[txindy]

48. If you want someone who will rant, rave, & act before the facts are known

Then you must be a B*sh supporter. ;) That sums up our current pResident very well. It doesn't describe John Kerry in the slightest.

You used the word "forethought" as a desired trait in a statesman. I agree. The facts are still being discovered, the deadlines have not passed. A true statesman shows patience. I truly believe that is what we are witnessing here. This isn't about negotiations, this is about dragging the truth out into the light while your opponents are scrambling to destroy it. That is not the time to show your hand which would only serve to help them cover their crimes.

Patience.

[jmatthan]

49. You do not concede till the facts are known!!

eom

[txindy]

50. Better to have a media circus like Florida 2000 until facts are known?

Oooooo-kay, then. Hard to argue with 'logic' like that. So, let's run with that scenario for a minute, shall we?

As you said, don't concede until all facts are known. Now, they won't be known until December, at the earliest, so that's at least a month, probably six weeks. A month of wingnut, GOP, and media savagery, every minute of every day. A Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, O'Reilly, and Coulter bloodfest. A month of uncertainty throughout the world as to just which candidate will lead the United States for the next four years. A month for the current pResident to launch whatever actions, military or otherwise, to 'prove' just how vital he is to this country. A month for world financial markets to remain in an uncertain, tumultuous state. A month of desperation. All of which could be avoided by one simple, non-binding act of concession.

I know which month I prefer. Your MMV.

[molly]

51. Yes......