...... Warning..... Do Not Adjust Your Set.... Follow the numbers from our DIEBOLD servers...

[althecat]

...... Warning..... Do Not Adjust Your Set.... The numbers you are seeing on your TV are coming from DIEBOLD servers...

ALL Diebold, ALL the Time
It's the New Hampshire Primary

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00057.htm

You would think that pinching New Hampshire would be too damn dangerous...... But previous performance of the legal system in say Ohio might indicate otherwise. Plus you never know who might want to screw with this primary and why.

Background on New Hampshire's Diebold GEMS vote tabulation software (hacked 2003) and optical scan system (hacked 2005) follows...

Diebold Optical Scan Voting System Hacked (3 Ways)
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0505/S00381.htm

&

Inside A U.S. Election Vote Counting Program

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm

Al

[Gman]

1. 9/11 was an inside job too, right?

[razors edge]

5. Yep

Carried out and covered up by G-men.

Edit: To benefit a Diktatr.

[althecat]

9. And you think that coz you call yourself Gman we know you aren't one.....

.... aha but we is on to your ruse Gman.....

:bounce:

Hello agent mike!

[Gman]

18. Busted!

[althecat]

20. Hands Gman a pair of handcuffs....

.. now you go lock yourself up for the rest of the night.

[Usrename]

71. We do know absolutely without any doubt there is a cover-up.

Whoever did it, there was a massive cover-up, and it is still ongoing. Are you gonna try and deny it?

[The Doctor.]

22. There's little evidence of that. There is a veritable MOUNTAIN of evidence of election fraud.

You're just such a cheeky monkey agent Mike.

So how're the wife and kids? Good holiday I hope?

[Beam Me Up]

66. Little Evidence.

Even less evidence that the official account is true. Far less than the evidence they "had" re Sadam and WMD.

[The Doctor.]

69. Indeed. Isn't that something. nt

[tyedyeto]

35. WTF does 911 have to do with New Hampshire 2008?

Your mind is all fucked up to tell the difference?

Diebold voting machines, not known for being accurate, are rampant in most of America, including New Hampshire. You believe in them?

Lord help us!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. The mountain of election fraud and caging operation is rising faster

than Everest, but I am sure you knew that

[althecat]

53. Time To MAKE A NOISE --- Message to Barack Obama DO NOT CONCEED 'TIL THE VOTES ARE COUNTED

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2635043&mesg_id=2635043

[helderheid]

63. not that the two have anything to do with one another....

If you believe the official story, say hi to Santa for me.

[orleans]

64. did you miss the article in the nytimes magazine? this past weekend?

it was 14 printed pages on evoting, not much on 911 "inside job" crap. or were you just trying to kill this thread?

[seemslikeadream]

2. Oh that's just a coincidence

IMPEACH CHENEY




They Thought They Were Free - Read by Dave Emory

The Germans, 1933-45

Excerpt from pages 166-73 of "They Thought They Were Free" First published in 1955

By Milton Mayer

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

....

"Yes," I said.

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, THE SHOCK DOCTRINE will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’



Michael Parenti - Terrorism, Globalism & Conspiracy

"Coincidence Theory: By shear chance things just happen repeatedly and coincidentally to benefit their interests without any conscious connivance by them, which is most uncanny. There is also: Stupidity Theory, Innocence Theory, Momentary Aberration Theory, Incompetence Theory, Unintended Consequences Theory and Innocent Cultural Proclivities Theory."

- Michael Parenti

[althecat]

6. CNN exit poll: Obama 39.4%, Hillary: 38.1% - Perfect conditions for a night of vote stealing....

...no one will ever know....

[DaveJ]

49. That is very troubling...

I personally would be satisfied with either candidate winning the GE. But, I also have some respect for the accuracy of exit polls, so do you have a link or screenshot of this??

[althecat]

55. LOL----- I read it on DU!

The authority.... :)

[librechik]

3. yes.

so much of what I used to do proudly and confidently as a citizen is now poisoned with irony and cynicism.

I live on denial and unrealistic hopes.

[stillcool]

4. oh man....

maybe New Hampshire voters are hip to it. It's such a small state I would think ripping them off might be a little more obvious?

[Bright Eyes]

7. Seriously though. Does Diebold tally election results for the primaries?

[althecat]

11. Dunno actually... but usually a Diebold setup would include scanners and GEMS,

[tinrobot]

13. Absolutely.

n/t

[GrantDem]

16. Paper handcounted ballots...

[jbnow]

78. 81% Diebold, the rest handcount

Obama won the handcounted districts...small towns and rural.
Lost in the Diebold, big towns/urban.
http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS
Farmers For Obama must have been active. Or something

[ursi]

8. this is ugly

;(

[LittleClarkie]

10. Whenever the election doesn't go the way folks wanted it to

it's Diebold?

[NYC Liberal]

12. The 2006 elections were rigged, dontchya know?

Wait...

[jgraz]

82. Yes, they were. They just rigged the votes before the Foley scandal broke

Why the HELL do you think Pig-man Rove was running around talking about "THE math" in October?

[Endangered Specie]

21. I'm sure if Obama was winning...

fewer would be complaining.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Indeed.

And the caucuses would have been considered fixed if she had won there too, I reckon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. You do understand why rigging the caucases is a tad hard

don't you?

Oh never mind...

[althecat]

24. Of course. ...Who is the corporate candidate in this race?

[Endangered Specie]

26. Well that depends on who you ask:

If you support Hillary, then its Obama
If you support Obama, then its Hillary
If you support Edwards, its 50/50 Obama or Hillary
If you support Kooky Kucinich, its the three of them.
If you support Gravel, then its everyone but him.

[althecat]

33. "If you support Hillary, then its Obama" ----- are you serious?

So Clinton supporters believe...

1. That Hillary who was in the Whitehouse when the US attacked Iraq in 1998 on the basis of bogus intelligence is more anti-war than Obama as Bill tried to tell us today (to lots of nods around here I might add)

&

2. That Obama a black senator from Chicago is more of a corporate candidate than the wife of a President who presided over an unprecedented period of american prosperity and who counts as his friends avowed socialists like Robert E. Rubin?

[Yurovsky]

37. Just look at all the Wall Street $$$ she's been hauling in...

you think those bastards are going to donate to somebody who'd going to upset their applecart?

Hell no. Hillary=status quo for the capitalist pricks who are shipping jobs overseas, impoverishing working class Americans, all the while enriching themselves beyond what is remotely reasonable. These bastards are setting up 10 generations of their lineage to never have to work again with all the goddamn $$$ they are stealing from the workers of America.

Hillary is far and away the MOST corporate Dem candidate. Heck, she's more corporate than some of the GOP fucktards.

[althecat]

38. You have a great turn of phrase Yurovsky....

... treasure it. Its a gift.

:yourock:

[Yurovsky]

48. thanks...

I just get riled up when I see progressives snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I've seen it played out in Congress following the 2006 elections, and don't get me started on 2000 or 2004.

I strongly believe a TRUE progressive could win in November. The country has had more than enough lying, stealing, and killing courtesy of the GOP and their corporate masters. I just hope the Democrats have enough sense to nominate Obama. If Hillary gets the nomination, progressives are going to have to work like hell to keep her from "triangulating" a la Bill.

[Bright Eyes]

50. If i was able to, I'd rec the hell out of your post.

Spot on!

[northzax]

81. after all, Obama is so anti-corporate

that he married a corporate lawyer.

[althecat]

83. Being a lawyer is not a bad thing.. nor is being married to a lawyer...

I think sometimes in this Clinton vs Obama discussion something gets lost.

For people who support Obama it is not because Clinton is necessarily a bad candidate - and she is indisputably a more corporate one - but rather simply that Obama is a much better candidate. He is fresh. New. Young. Passionate. And can really really speak well. He is the best orator I have seen in the 21st century..

See below an alternative critique on Obama... also carried on Scoop.

We try to have a diverse range of opinion on Scoop. However submissions which expound Hillary's virtues are seldom if ever received. If you see any please suggest to the authors that they submit and as long as they meet basic standards we will probably publish them.

A real political debate is a wonderful thing...

And on that note I offer our new lead....

http://www.blackagendareport.com/

from: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00077.htm
Barack, Hillary - Sinister Nothingness Of "Change"
Thursday, 10 January 2008, 8:07 am
Column: Black Agenda Report

Barack, Hillary, and the Sinister Nothingness of "Change"

Black Agenda Report
By BAR executive editor Glen Ford

"Although 'change' may come, it will be at the direction of the rich."

The scam of this still-new century enthralls and envelopes the nation, a narrowly-packaged farce in which political twins Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama pretend they are not joined at the hip on every public policy issue that has been allowed to enter the corporate media-vetted discourse: health care, Iraq, trade. Even these points of (non)contention disappear in the din of purely commercial marketing mantras with infinitely malleable meanings: "Change," "Hope," "Reform."

... it contains a interesting perspective on the hairy tale of new york.

The biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

Ironically, it was Bill Clinton who, on the eve of the New Hampshire primary, exposed the bogus nature of the stage-set battle between his wife and Barack Obama:

"It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time - not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war. And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since. Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

When the Great Triangulator and Supreme Snake Oil Salesman tells you a scam is going on, take it from an expert, and believe.

The Real Story on Obama

Actually, Clinton got one of the dates wrong. We at Black Agenda Report know - because we have been closely scrutinizing Obama since his Illinois state senate days, and engaged him in a month-long interchange in June of 2003. Obama's October 2002 anti-war speech first disappeared from his U.S. Senate campaign site, not in 2004, but in 2003, when public perception of the war and occupation - with the exception of Black opinion - had dramatically shifted towards war. At the time, Bruce Dixon and the core Black Agenda Report crew, including myself, were housed at BlackCommentator.com.

More...

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=491&Itemid=1
and
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00077.htm

Al

[northzax]

85. frankly, the word 'corporatist' is my problem

I want a debate on policy issues. I want both candidates to fight on what's important, not mythology, not insults, not insinuations about the past, let's talk about the future. Both candidates are basically the same on many issues, so let's run them through the crucible and see who comes out the back end stronger.

[althecat]

86. Seems fair enough.

Peace

[Endangered Specie]

42. Pretty much, rabid supports of either will believe just about anything.

Have you watched a TV lately, Obama is on a helluva lot more than Hillary over the last couple days.

[moodforaday]

84. and friends like GHWB (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Given the history of the last six years

occam tells me you should be suspicious of ANY wild change...

Oh never mind... we cannot believe that the Vaunted American Democracy may be sick to the core

[eowyn_of_rohan]

74. Actually, no. It could also be ES&S or Sequoya -nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. No, just when it inexplicably goes Diebold's way. n/t

[jbnow]

79. No, that's not it.

Whoever we support we should care. It's when the polls, even internal polls are so far off for no good reason. We have only the exit polls to explain it and we aren't given the data, only the weighted polls that always balance to adjust to the outcome. (Really, that's standard, not a conspiracy fear)
The exit polls are to look at trends, not reveal fraud.

We should really look at it when the highly favored candidate wins in the handcounted areas (where he was expected to have the least support because it is rural and small towns) but looses in the diebold areas that should have been his strength.

We should care when this is the same software tested in California and Colorado and failed so badly they won't allow them to be used and NH refused to allow the testing.
We should care when the polls were correct for all other candidates in both part except these two.

I hope if I were a strong Hillary candidate I would still care about this.

I like them all, I appreciate having a real race,
But this is really troubling and November is coming.

I'm not saying Hillary did something (or even Mark Penn). It's not the machines were vulnerable to tampering, they were prone to mistakes with no one tampering. Heck republicans might want to put a stop to the tsunami that they saw coming so that even if he is the nominee it won't be this huge thing.

November will come and we shouldn't ignore this. That's what I don't understand.

[jackstraw45]

14. 81% of NH votes are counted by Diebold optical scanners...nt

nt

[Bright Eyes]

25. Do you have a link?

I'm not calling you out, I just haven't found any websites that say for sure yes or no.

[librechik]

30. links in theOriginal Post

welcome to DU, BE!

[Hutzpa]

32. Here!

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00057.htm

[Hutzpa]

15. Holy shit,

should have known with all the diebold threads that where floating around....

something does stink,

a dead fucking fish!!!

[Bright Eyes]

17. I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

:tinfoilhat: It stinks to holy hell.

[Yurovsky]

19. Hillary = ProWar = Bush = Haliburton = Attack Iran...

If anyone (sadly, including myself) was silly enough to think that the PTB would allow anyone other than a pro-war, big business democrat to win the nomination ...

well, this should serve as a wakeup. The polls taken over the past week had Obama up anywhere between 12-14%. NH is a small state in which you would not expect such a huge swing so rapidly. Something stinks to high heaven, and I would wager to bet the good folks at Haliburton, Blackwater, Carlyle (sp?) et al have their evil goddamn fingerprints all over this.

I was bummed that Dennis Kucinich wasn't getting much support, but Obama gave me some hope that an anti-war progressive (not beholden to the military-industrial complex) might have a shot.

It appears I grossly underestimated the lengths that these monsters would go to in order to keep their stranglehold on the neck of this country. And make no mistake, Hillary, if elected, will be little more than a tool of the same interests that control Chimpy. Oh sure, reproductive rights will be better off, and perhaps the country won't be in as big a rush to fry people on Death Row, but the drumbeats of war will continue, unabated. Hell, Hillary already gave the green light to taking out Iran.

Time to move to Venezuela folks.

[xultar]

28. Exploding head #3

[Yurovsky]

31. It won't be so funny ...

when we have young men and women dying in Iran at the behest of the next administration.

Of course, the dying will continue in Iraq and Afghanistan...

[xultar]

34. Exploding head #6

[LittleClarkie]

36. Is that the next step after "hair on fire"?

?

[Bright Eyes]

39. Don't I get an exploding head?

[xultar]

43. I'll need a post to trigger the explosion...reply with a link and I'll hook you up.

[althecat]

40. I say keep going... to #13

[althecat]

52. Where are the others ones..... 1, 2, 4 & 5.... and a nomination

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=82367&mesg_id=82449

[northzax]

87. um, there are huge swings all the time in New Hampshire

McCain turned 15 points on Bush in 2000 overnight. So I guess the Bush-pioneer Diebold decided that they wanted McCain at the last minute? come on.

[althecat]

27. Pre-primary Zogby tracking poll matches returns for all candidates except Obama and Clinton

Email just in...

*PLEASE forward to Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann and Countdown
producers ASAP:*

With 12% of the returns in, Clinton has 38% and Obama 36%. The Zogby
daily tracking poll had Obama at 42% and Clinton at 29% today. Most
other polls agreed. Nothing in the news can reasonably explain this
drastic last minute swing in Clinton's favor except possibly software
manipulation of Diebold voting machines. This a swing of nearly 9
points. All other numbers are matching up exactly with candidates
pre-primary Zogby tracking numbers
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1417 today, or within 1-2%.

Link to Today's Zogby/C-SPAN/Reuters tracking numbers:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1417

Link to AP Returns:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2008/by_state/US_Page_0108_VD.html?SITE=CSPANELN&SECTION=POLITICS

With these early numbers in, it's time to take a serious look at the
concerns raised in this Michael Collins article
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00057.htm.

Can we trust secret
software code in machines owned by a private company (Diebold) in our
democratic Republic? This peculiar flip in numbers should raise
concerns and I hope you will investigate this issue and concern more
closely. The integrity of our entire system is at stake.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0801/S00057.htm
ALL Diebold, ALL the Time: It's the New Hampshire Primary

[althecat]

29. Michael Collins tops Catherin Fitts blog

http://www.solari.com/blog/

[Tuesday_Morning]

51. contact info:

[e-mail]

[AntiFascist]

57. But according the M$M...

many people decided who to vote for at the last minute, and many changed their minds. Can't we always place our trust in the M$M?

[JMDEM]

41. This sucks. NT

[althecat]

44. bradblog... NH PRIMARY DISINFO ALERT: 'Problems' with Paper Ballots in State Inaccurately Reported

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5529

[proud patriot]

46. Thanks for the link

:hi:

[Hutzpa]

60. Thanks for posting eom

[EFerrari]

73. I knew it. It's a two-fer. You suppress the vote AND

tar paper ballots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Damn I knew my spidey sense was going off for a damn good reason!

Care to wager how long until this is actually checked in a legal way?

I guess that iceball will have a better chance in hell than this happening

[EFerrari]

70. Mine, too. I posted a thread today in the ER about getting started

on election protection early.

My mom must be ecstatic. I can either lie and congratulate her or tell her what I really think and she'll never speak to me again. I better lie through my teeth.

[althecat]

54. Time To MAKE A NOISE --- Message to Barack Obama DO NOT CONCEED 'TIL THE VOTES ARE COUNTED

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2635043&mesg_id=2635043

[althecat]

56. Ok I retract that.... He doesn't need a recount. All he needs is to be allowed to speak.

Ok then so Obama won.....

He doesn't need a recount. All he needs is to be allowed to speak.

[ozone_man]

58. What did the exit polls say?

They are fairly accurate. I would compare them to the actual vote, and to polls before the vote. If the exit polls show a discrepancy, then that's something to be concerned about.

[AntiFascist]

59. Oh, I'll bet this is a little preemptive present from the Bush Admin...

for being pardoned.

[althecat]

61. Thats a good explanation....

[autorank]

62. This is quite a night. As they say...."Diebold or live free"

The journey continues...

[orleans]

65. "at diebold we're changing democracy, one vote at a time"

[autorank]

77. They're dedicated... Love those "Diebold variations"

[nolabels]

72. I stopped putting hope in elections about two election cycles ago

It's easier to predict what they will do rather than to spend time with numbers

I really don't think HRC is the big problem but i also really don't like any of the other candidates either. The whole primary things is of little use to me as i am registered as independent. The thing that gets me and i am quite suspicious of is all these similar patterns involving voting

Hillary Rodham Clinton: a tough, tenacious, fatally flawed candidate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1574943

[LeftCoast]

76. So if Hillary AND the republicans have the keys to the ballot box how's Nov supposed to work?

:shrug:

[Imagevision]

80. Voter Fraud awareness must be raised as was done in last November's election...

and it worked!

[althecat]

88. ...remembering the fallen ...

:kick: