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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:33 PM
Original message
Vote Fraud Theories by Bloggers Are Quickly Buried
THIS ARTICLE IS NOW BEING SHOWN ON THE AOL WELCOME SCREEN AND IS A NEW ARTICLE.
===================================================================
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=20041112100709990010

Vote Fraud Theories by Bloggers Are Quickly Buried
By TOM ZELLER Jr., The New York Times
http://www.ustogether.org/

Political blogs like Kathy Dopp's above, have spread theories of vote fraud like wildfire on the Internet since the election.

The e-mail messages and Web postings had all the twitchy cloak-and-dagger thrust of a Hollywood blockbuster. "Evidence mounts that the vote may have been hacked," trumpeted a headline on the Web site CommonDreams.org. "Fraud took place in the 2004 election through electronic voting machines," declared BlackBoxVoting.org.

In the space of seven days, an online market of dark ideas surrounding last week's presidential election took root and multiplied.

But while the widely read universe of Web logs was often blamed for the swift propagation of faulty analyses, the blogosphere, as it has come to be known, spread the rumors so fast that experts were soon able to debunk them, rather than allowing them to linger and feed conspiracy theories. Within days of the first rumors of a stolen election, in fact, the most popular theories were being proved wrong - though many were still reluctant to let them go.

Much of the controversy, called Votergate 2004 by some, involved real voting anomalies in Florida and Ohio, the two states on which victory hinged. But ground zero in the online rumor mill, it seems, was Utah.

"I love the process of democracy, and I think it's more important than the outcome," said Kathy Dopp, an Internet enthusiast living near Salt Lake City. It was Ms. Dopp's analysis of the vote in Florida (she has a master's degree in mathematics) that set off a flurry of post-election theorizing by disheartened Democrats who were certain, given early surveys of voters leaving the polls that were leaked, showing Senator John Kerry winning handily, that something was amiss.

The day after the election, Ms. Dopp posted to her Web site, http://www.ustogether.org/, a table comparing party registrations in each of Florida's 67 counties, the method of voting used and the number of votes cast for each presidential candidate. Ms. Dopp, along with other statisticians contributing to the site, suggested a "surprising pattern" in Florida's results showing inexplicable gains for President Bush in Democratic counties that used optical-scan voting systems.

The zeal and sophistication of Ms. Dopp's number crunching was hard to dismiss out of hand, and other Web users began creating their own bar charts and regression models in support of other theories. In a breathless cycle of hey-check-this-out, the theories - along with their visual aids - were distributed by e-mail messages containing links to popular Web sites and Web logs, or blogs, where other eager readers diligently passed them along.

Getty Images
Voters in West Palm Beach, Fla., cast their ballots.

Within one day, the number of visits to Ms. Dopp's site jumped from 50 to more than 500, according to site logs. On Nov. 4, that number tipped 17,000. Her findings were noted on popular left-leaning Web logs like DailyKos.com and FreePress.org. Last Friday, three Democratic members of Congress - John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, Jerrold Nadler of New York and Robert Wexler of Florida - sent a letter to the Government Accountability Office seeking an investigation of voting machines. A link to Ms. Dopp's site was included in the letter.

But rebuttals to the Florida fraud hypothesis were just as quick. Three political scientists, from Cornell, Harvard and Stanford, pointed out, in an e-mail message to a Web site that carried the news of Ms. Dopp's findings, that many of those Democratic counties in Florida have a long tradition of voting Republican in presidential elections. And while Ms. Dopp says that she and dozens of other researchers will continue to analyze the Florida vote, the suggestion of a link between certain types of voting machines and the vote split in Florida has, at least for now, little concrete support.

Still, as visitors to Ms. Dopp's site approached 70,000 early this week, other election anomalies were gaining traction on the Internet. The elections department in Cleveland, for instance, set off a round of Web log hysteria when it posted turnout figures on its site that seemed to show more votes being cast in some communities than there were registered voters. That turned out to be an error in how the votes were reported by the department, not in the counting.

And the early Election Day polls, conducted for a consortium of television networks and The Associated Press, which proved largely inaccurate in showing Mr. Kerry leading in Florida and Ohio, continued to be offered as evidence that the Bush team somehow cheated.

But while authorities acknowledge that there were real problems on Election Day, including troubles with some electronic machines and intolerably long lines in some places, few have suggested that any of these could have changed the outcome.

"There are real problems to be addressed," said Doug Chapin of Electionline.org, a clearinghouse of election reform information, "and I'd hate for them to get lost in second-guessing of the result."

It is that second-guessing, however, that has largely characterized the blog-to-e-mail-to-blog continuum. Some election officials have become frustrated by the rumor mill.

"It becomes a snowball of hearsay," said Matthew Damschroder, the director of elections in Columbus, Ohio, where an electronic voting machine malfunctioned in one precinct and allotted some 4,000 votes to President Bush, kicking off its own flurry of Web speculation. That particular problem was unusual and remains unexplained, but it was caught and corrected, Mr. Damschroder said.

"Some from the traditional media have called for an explanation," he said, "but no one from these blogs has called and said, 'We want to know what really happened.' "

Whether that is the role of bloggers, Web posters and online pundits, however, is a matter of debate.

Clay Shirky, an adjunct professor in the interactive telecommunications program at New York University, suggests that the online fact-finding machine has come unmoored, and that some bloggers simply "can't imagine any universe in which a fair count of the votes would result in George Bush being re-elected president."

But some denizens of the Web see it differently.

Jake White, the owner of the Web log primordium.org, argues that he and other election-monitoring Web posters are not motivated solely by partisan politics. "While there are no doubt large segments of this movement that are being driven by that," he said in an e-mail message, "I prefer to think of it as discontent over the way the election was held."

Mr. White also quickly withdrew his own analysis of voting systems in Ohio when he realized the data he had used was inaccurate.

John Byrne, editor of an alternative news site, BlueLemur.com, says it is too easy to condemn blogs and freelance Web sites for being inaccurate. The more important point, he said, is that they offer an alternative to a mainstream news media that has become too timid. "Of course you can say blogs are wrong," he said. "Blogs are wrong all the time."

For its part, the Kerry campaign has been trying to tamp down the conspiracy theories and to tell supporters that their mission now is to ensure that every vote is counted, not that the election be overturned.

"We know this was an emotional election, and the losing side is very upset," said Daniel Hoffheimer, the lead lawyer for the Kerry campaign in Ohio. But, he said, "I have not seen anything to indicate intentional fraud or tampering."

A preliminary study produced by the Voting Technology Project, a cooperative effort between the California Institute of Technology and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, came to a similar conclusion. Its study found "no particular patterns" relating to voting systems and the final results of the election.

"The 'facts' that are being circulated on the Internet," the study concluded, "appear to be selectively chosen to make the point."

Whether that will ever convince everyone is an open question.

"I'd give my right arm for Internet rumors of a stolen election to be true," said David Wade, a spokesman for the Kerry campaign, "but blogging it doesn't make it so. We can change the future; we can't rewrite the past."

Ford Fessenden and John Schwartz contributed reporting for this article.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. You'll have to edit that to 4 paragraphs
Welcome to DU. We can't post the full article due to copyright. We can excerpt four paragraphs and then include the link so people can read more if they wish.
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I guess my note will have to be removed. BUMMER
it's an aol article. I've heard from many friends that they can't access AOL url.....they don't work.

It was a good article. The FIRST that has been posted as NEWS on aol!!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's actually a NY Times article
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 04:52 PM by Stephanie
So it's accessible to everyone if they go to the original source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/12/politics/12theory.html?oref=login
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thanks, you are a jewel
I appreciate your help in helping me post!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No problem
But you might want to use the edit button on your original post to shorten it, before the mods shorten it for you. This way you get to choose the most important paragraphs to post.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Consider the source
If there's any truth to this at all, that means the mainstream media were either suckered or accomplices--neither a pretty picture.

:headbang:
rocknation
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. I don't think you need to go further than the writer.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Buried alive they mean
notice they don't say "discredited"
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. This NYT "reporter"
He is just stating his own opinions, not based on any data.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Off-Topic:Emergency Money Transfusion Needed Now!
Please help Ida out and go to this thread - go to naders website and donate $5 and kick Ida's thread - we're going to come up with the $35,000 with lots of little donations and we're going to do it today.

Then chase down your friends on this website and make sure they saw this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2680120

come on people, $5 to save democracy? That's not too much to ask, is it?
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futurecitizen Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Knocking down straw men..
I've written this before, but it bears repeating here: the exit polls cannot have been off by that number of percentage points, and no article I've read anywhere (and I've been reading DU fairly exhaustively, watching the news, etc) can explain it. You can buy the Dixiecrats, you can buy the reporting protocol in Ohio and you can buy the allusion to 'bad data' that was referenced above, and you also can choose *not* to buy it.

As for no bloggers trying to get to the root of things, that is both not the case and possibly a real problem. I called the exit polling company to find out how much it would cost to get the exit poll numbers. After sidestepping the question twice I was told that the information wouldn't be available for six to nine months.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Who did you call?
Do you have the number? We should send this out to the press and get them to get the answer. That's outrageous.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. YES.....WHO DO YOU CALL? look at the Paragraph below
"It becomes a snowball of hearsay," said Matthew Damschroder, the director of elections in Columbus, Ohio, where an electronic voting machine malfunctioned in one precinct and allotted some 4,000 votes to President Bush, kicking off its own flurry of Web speculation. That particular problem was unusual and remains unexplained, but it was caught and corrected, Mr. Damschroder said.

~~~~~~~~>>> "Some from the traditional media have called for an explanation," he said, "but no one from these blogs has called and said, 'We want to know what really happened.' "

-----------------------------------------------------------
Okay guys, this is it. They want phone calls at the ELECTIONS DEPARTMENT IN COLUMBUS, OHIO.............let's do it!

Phone, FAX, email and go there in person. Get TONS of communication going to ask "we want to know what really happened."

GIVE IT TO THEM BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dark Secret Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Don't Have Zeller's e-mail, but I sent the Following to NYT Brass
A faithful reader since high school, I am distressed at the recent barrage of articles on voting "irregularities" that are both poorly researched and devoid of common sense.

I refer most recently to an article by a Mr. Zeller, "Vote Fraud Theories by Bloggers Are Quickly Buried."

What is quickly buried is Mr. Zeller's pandering foolishness. It is typical of the lousy journalism from a once great newspaper now being ridiculed widely. If the NYT can't produce more informed and incisive articles on the subject, please do the reading public a favor and remain silent.

There are many, perhaps millions, who question the voting results. We do not necessarily subscribe to conspiratorial theories of "fraud," but documentation of almost 200 instances of computer "malfunction" can not be ignored by a viable democracy.

Excuses abound not to recount votes, but a democracy that refuses to audit its elections is a democracy in peril. This is particularly urgent given the statistical odds of Mr. Bush winning in the 7 battleground states despite the exit polls (1:187,000,000).

Recounts should be done to validate the truth, which is supposed to be the soul of Democracy and the mission of the media. The primary purpose of a recount(s) should not be expectation of overturning election results, but confirmation of the integrity of the voting process and installation of confidence in the American people and the international community.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. George?
How did you get in here?
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Dark Secret Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I believe in the validity of the exit polls. NYT clearly doesn't
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Tom Zeller apoears to be in favor of electronic voting.
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 05:18 PM by The Backlash Cometh
I suspect he has a conflict of interest.
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Your letter is perfect

It makes the case for the need of election audit.

Congratulations :party:

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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. Quashing dissent so soon? What ever happened to glasnost?
These tactics remind me of the way another government handled dissent. Hope we don't all disappear to a village in Alaska to work on the new drilling projects.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. A lof of low count posters have been posting this article.
If you look at the articles Tom Zeller has posted in the NYT, the last three months have been a flurry of articles that appear to be pro-electronic ballot voting. Someone should investigate to see where his interest lies? Does he have stock in the machines? Did he vote for Bush? Is he a Republican?

I think this kind of information should now be customary because our country is so divided.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. On the AOL WELCOME screen?
That's unbelievable.

Why do liberals use AOL, knowing it's run by rabid rightwingers?
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