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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-28-06 11:20 PM Original message |
Lou Dobbs poll on boycott of Touch Screen Elections a stroke of genius |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-28-06 11:33 PM Response to Original message |
1. Contracting the franchise; that's their strategy-the enemies of democracy |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-28-06 11:52 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Yes, another form of suppression. Suppression/spoilage takes different |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:04 AM Response to Original message |
3. Landshark, Autorank at what point do we |
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GuvWurld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:07 AM Response to Original message |
4. I have to give this some more thought |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:02 AM Response to Reply #4 |
9. Lets think together..."group think";) & by all means ALWAYS VOTE!!! |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:16 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. We did #1 at the polls yesterday. |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:23 AM Response to Reply #11 |
12. You are absolutely correct! |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:52 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. It varied--some interest, some disinterest and |
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Larry Bergan (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:44 PM Response to Reply #14 |
43. Here’s a little recap of.. |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 05:30 PM Response to Reply #9 |
36. See, this is why.... |
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Drum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:20 AM Response to Original message |
5. I'll listen to nothing that advocates Not Voting. |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:40 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. I don't think |
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Drum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:23 AM Response to Reply #7 |
13. thx for the nudge. |
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AndyTiedye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:38 AM Response to Original message |
6. One Machine Reduced "Undervotes" by Defaulting to BUSH! |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:08 AM Response to Reply #6 |
10. By all means vote, but if they won't allow |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 02:02 AM Response to Reply #6 |
17. way more than one machine did that EOM |
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AndyTiedye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 10:35 AM Response to Reply #17 |
22. I Meant One KIND OF Machine |
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Awsi Dooger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:41 AM Response to Original message |
8. Wow, just think if we had DUed Lou's poll |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:54 AM Response to Reply #8 |
15. Do your time, vote and act like |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 10:55 AM Response to Reply #8 |
23. The OP clearly says this is an unscientific poll, however |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:25 AM Response to Reply #23 |
27. People not voting aren't people "undervoting" |
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Awsi Dooger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 08:42 PM Response to Reply #23 |
124. I'd love to wager against that 30% number from Dobbs' poll |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 01:55 AM Response to Original message |
16. Clearly staying away from the polls is not they way to go. |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 02:09 AM Response to Original message |
18. Falling into a framing trap? |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 09:20 PM Response to Reply #18 |
37. self delete--put this in wrong place |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:02 PM Response to Reply #18 |
41. Yes, you say some important things |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 12:42 AM Response to Reply #41 |
44. Are we talking about the "Plan X" version of taking? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 02:46 AM Response to Reply #41 |
47. Of course you've got a "gripe or complaint" |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 01:32 PM Response to Reply #47 |
56. It's interesting the febble should bring up the specter of the Noble Lie |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 01:40 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. YOU brought up the specter, Land Shark! |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 05:53 PM Response to Reply #56 |
66. And you must have missed this post of mine: |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 02:49 PM Response to Reply #41 |
61. What does this part mean? |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 11:51 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. Explaining "to be effective, we have to appreciate paradox" |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 02:03 AM Response to Reply #68 |
74. Micro view |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 04:05 AM Response to Reply #74 |
75. The way you are SPINNING your statistics is not "micro" to be sure |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 04:19 AM Response to Reply #75 |
76. No I am not spinning. It is your spin, not mine. |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 08:01 AM Response to Reply #76 |
79. There is that saying, again: |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 08:17 AM Response to Reply #79 |
80. Exactly |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 08:38 AM Response to Reply #80 |
81. A Scatterplot? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 09:27 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. I'm not asking you to buy |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:31 PM Response to Reply #82 |
111. Yes, thank you |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 02:27 AM Response to Reply #111 |
112. Well, you make an interesting point |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 06:49 AM Response to Reply #112 |
115. "I have done so"?!?!? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 07:24 AM Response to Reply #115 |
116. think about what you are saying |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 07:34 AM Response to Reply #116 |
118. Yes, I have done that |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 07:00 PM Response to Reply #118 |
120. well, then, you actually have to make some arguments |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 07:56 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. Give me one example... |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 08:11 PM Response to Reply #121 |
122. OK, how about you go back and fix the New York mess? |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 08:20 PM Response to Reply #122 |
123. Not that again.... |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 05:38 AM Response to Reply #123 |
126. see, you apparently don't know the first thing about science |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 07:40 AM Response to Reply #126 |
128. So |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 07:55 AM Response to Reply #128 |
129. Translation: |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 08:15 AM Response to Reply #129 |
130. No. |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 08:32 AM Response to Reply #130 |
131. Well, think through what you are saying |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 08:47 AM Response to Reply #130 |
132. PS |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 09:17 AM Response to Reply #132 |
133. And I think you are wrong, for the hundreth time |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 09:41 AM Response to Reply #133 |
134. Yes, I know you do. |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 09:46 AM Response to Reply #134 |
135. Ignore? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 09:58 AM Response to Reply #135 |
136. OK, if you don't want to ignore it |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 10:16 AM Response to Reply #136 |
137. Again? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 10:20 AM Response to Reply #137 |
138. Well, that is probably because |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 07:33 AM Response to Reply #115 |
117. As I've said |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 04:36 AM Response to Reply #75 |
78. Part II |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:08 AM Response to Reply #78 |
84. Flying to Vegas soon? I'll bet you 1000 Euros I can show you're wrong |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:17 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. No. I don't bet on science. |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:24 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. How about if somebody else makes the bet and you just make arguments? |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:27 AM Response to Reply #89 |
90. I'm open to any other device to make it a serious debate.... |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:38 AM Response to Reply #90 |
94. Try this one: |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:42 AM Response to Reply #94 |
96. That's fine - no bets. But how about the jury device? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:01 AM Response to Reply #96 |
102. At IIDB |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:09 AM Response to Reply #102 |
104. It's very true that there is much tension between science and politics |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:24 AM Response to Reply #104 |
106. Well, my most conservative conclusion |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:35 AM Response to Reply #106 |
108. yes, let's make a date. I also have a book chapter this wkend to finalize |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:06 AM Response to Reply #94 |
103. The link you gave has some interesting ideas |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:28 AM Response to Reply #89 |
91. Land Shark, you just said you could |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:33 AM Response to Reply #91 |
92. If you read posts 89 and 90 as edited you will see my view on this |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:41 AM Response to Reply #92 |
95. In addition, I'm not *completely* ready to do my own arguments |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:48 AM Response to Reply #95 |
98. Well, thanks. |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:44 AM Response to Reply #92 |
97. I read your view of the debate you'd like |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:52 AM Response to Reply #97 |
100. I am posturing a bit FOR AN AUDIENCE. i could start a thread |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:11 AM Response to Reply #100 |
105. Jeez, Land Shark |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 11:29 AM Response to Reply #105 |
107. Part of this discussion we've had before, so you can research that |
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IndyOp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 08:08 PM Response to Reply #105 |
110. Febble - Do your analyses 'control for' provisional votes that were |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 03:19 AM Response to Reply #110 |
113. No, you are right people who cast |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:57 AM Response to Reply #91 |
101. this is a clever "put up or shut up" argument. That's fine!! |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:20 PM Response to Reply #18 |
42. Haven't heard of any actual boycott being organized |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 02:50 AM Response to Reply #18 |
48. I agree with (1) |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 03:39 PM Response to Reply #18 |
63. I still get out to the street at every opportunity. Moveon held a protest |
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Peace Patriot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 02:56 AM Response to Original message |
19. Bumper sticker: "Help Us Beat the Machines--VOTE!" |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:13 AM Response to Reply #19 |
25. Yes!!!! PP, it's not often I agree with you |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:22 AM Response to Reply #25 |
26. please let me quibble |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 03:46 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. No, slip of the brain |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 10:51 PM Response to Reply #26 |
39. You are presuming that votes are immutable things that are either |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 01:49 AM Response to Reply #39 |
45. three things can happen to a vote that is cast |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 07:01 AM Response to Reply #45 |
51. I'm reminded of the old (U.S.) football coach Woody Hayes |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 08:31 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. LOL |
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Awsi Dooger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 09:37 PM Response to Reply #51 |
125. Ah, but there's plenty of basic truth behind those junk statistics |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 05:24 AM Response to Reply #39 |
49. Further thought from one of "we guys": |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 09:53 AM Response to Reply #49 |
53. I think you meant 10% -- and, no, I don't think he's serious |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 12:37 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Yes, I meant |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 01:42 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. I'm not "pretending" that there are people who refuse to vote electronic |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 01:55 PM Response to Reply #58 |
59. Sorry - provocative word |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 01:13 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Fear of the unseen? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 02:13 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. I agree |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 05:15 PM Response to Reply #60 |
65. Absolutely |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 12:18 AM Response to Reply #53 |
70. "counted or not counted" in DRE context presumes that a vote |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 01:48 AM Response to Reply #70 |
73. Well, that's why I changed to using |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 04:20 AM Response to Reply #73 |
77. Then you should read or re-read my study |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 09:35 AM Response to Reply #77 |
83. OK, let me re-phrase: |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 12:52 PM Response to Reply #19 |
28. I like the general idea of the bumpersticker, however |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 03:47 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. How about "Help beat the machines - VOTE!!!" n/t |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 04:46 PM Response to Reply #30 |
32. So... |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 04:49 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. You certainly can't defeat them by not voting n/t |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 05:13 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. Really? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 05:14 PM Response to Reply #34 |
35. Self deleted |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 02:18 AM Response to Reply #34 |
46. BeFree |
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applegrove (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 02:58 AM Response to Original message |
20. It never ends with voter suppression. |
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ladjf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 07:47 AM Response to Original message |
21. Would you mind summarizing what you said? I missed the |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 11:00 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. It might not be easy to understand the (de facto) cleverness |
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BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 04:30 PM Response to Reply #24 |
31. Let's see... |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 06:20 AM Response to Reply #31 |
50. Excellent Plain English translation |
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IndyOp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 06:25 PM Response to Reply #50 |
67. Febble - I nearly got in a fist fight over whether ALL votes in the UK |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 12:05 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. Are Americans just ooo lazy to have real elections? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 01:32 AM Response to Reply #67 |
72. That's funny, I don't remember being that snarky! |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:11 AM Response to Reply #72 |
85. Ireland had DREs, and then got rid of them... Of course Eire is not UK! |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:16 AM Response to Reply #85 |
86. The biggest real threat we face in the UK right now |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:22 AM Response to Reply #86 |
88. It is true that no system is completely secure |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:35 AM Response to Reply #88 |
93. Oh, I specialise in grey areas |
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Votergater (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 05:53 AM Response to Reply #67 |
114. I live in the UK and the machines are coming here now... |
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IndyOp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-02-06 01:31 PM Response to Reply #114 |
119. Keep up the good fight VG - Go to the voters, not the pols. |
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Votergater (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-03-06 07:38 AM Response to Reply #119 |
127. My concern is that like the US media, the UK media is failing too.... |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 10:49 AM Response to Reply #50 |
99. Yes, I'll have to cut and paste BeFree's summary |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 09:21 PM Response to Original message |
38. Would somebody please read my earlier post, #18 |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-29-06 10:55 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. I'm reading you--literally and figuratively... |
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emlev (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 02:49 PM Response to Reply #40 |
62. Thank you. |
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Votergater (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-30-06 04:46 PM Response to Original message |
64. Landshark, what do you think of boycotting all the polls with machines... |
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Land Shark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 12:20 AM Response to Reply #64 |
71. Probably a good idea. It does have some side effects |
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AtLiberty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-01-06 01:29 PM Response to Original message |
109. GO, LOU, GO!!!! |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Mon Apr 29th 2024, 01:41 PM Response to Original message |
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