BradBlog Cites Bill Bored: DIEBOLD KNEW IN EARLY 2004

[Wilms]

DIEBOLD KNEW IN EARLY 2004! DID NOTHING TO FIX TOUCH-SCREEN VOTING SYSTEM SECURITY CHASM!

Two-Year Old Public Report Reveals Diebold Was Warned of 'Newly Discovered' Vulnerability Allowing Software to be Overwritten Without Password in Matter of Minutes

Experts Suggest Decertification of System, Violations of Federal Standards, Describe Diebold's Failure to Act as 'Criminal'

by Brad

5/16/2006

The massive security flaw recently revealed in Diebold touch-screen voting machines -- which allows election software and systems to be overwritten with rogue software in minutes, without need of a password -- and which has sent Elections Officials from Pennsylvania to California to Iowa to every state in the union which uses them, sequestering the machines and scrambling for a solution to mitigate the problem, was previously revealed in a 2004 security report commissioned by the state of Maryland, The BRAD BLOG has learned.

The security assessment of Diebold's touch-screen voting systems was completed by RABA Technologies, and presented to the Maryland State Legislature in January 2004. The report, reviewed at the time by both Maryland election officials and officials at Diebold, consisted of "a 'Red Team' exercise to discover vulnerabilities in the actual voting system" prior to the state's March 2004 primary election.

snip

The paragraph from the RABA report was apparently first uncovered recently by a poster at DemocraticUnderground.com.

David Allen, an Election Integrity Advocate from BlackBoxVoting.com (as distinct from BlackBoxVoting.ORG) contacted Jones after reading the DU post, to confirm whether or not the security issue cited in the RABA report seemed to be similar to the information revealed in the new report by Hursti based on the Utah analysis of Diebold machines.

"This is exactly the same problem!" Jones wrote in reply. "Thanks! I've been wondering whether this vulnerability was hiding in one of those old security evaluations."

snip

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002835.htm

Let's hear it for Bill!

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

[Botany]

1. MD in 2004 Rough #s

750,000 registered repugs produced 1,100,000 bush votes.
1,200,000 registered dems produced 1,200,000 Kerry votes.

[BeFree]

3. But, but, but

Some of the 'experts' who are trying to take credit for this are some of the same ones who don't think the machines are much responsible for the stolen election!

If the machines didn't factor in the alleged theft, then why do they want to drag poor little Diebold through the mud?

It makes no sense to me. Why fight against the machines if the machines haven't caused any problems?

The only thing accomplished is the obscuration of the issue and defeat what little unity there is amongst the cause. Something is wrong here. Real wrong.

[Febble]

16. One answer:

It makes no sense to me. Why fight against the machines if the machines haven't caused any problems?

1. They have caused problems. Unreliability is a problem, whether any one candidate benefits more than the other or not.



2. Even random problems and breakdown may preferentially disadvantage Democratic voters, if, as happened in Franklin County Ohio in 2004, Democratic precincts are more poorly supplied with machines.



3. If they are as vulnerable to tampering as they seem to be, fraud is a serious concern, whether or not it was a major factor in 2004.



4. Auditability is a major concern. Voters need to be able to know that the vote they intended to cast is counted, and that audits are able to pick up any malfunction or malfeasance. There is no basis for such confidence at present.

OK?

[OnTheOtherHand]

79. huh? those aren't even the right results

According to Leip, Kerry won MD by 1,334,493 to 1,024,703 (+13 points, roughly 56% to 43%), not 1,200,000 to 1,100,000. You have reduced his winning margin by two-thirds or so.

The last three pre-election polls in MD (per the electoral-vote.com database) had Kerry +8 (Rasmussen), +17 (Ipsos), and +11 (Survey USA). Average those, you get +12. You sure don't get +20-something, as the raw registration numbers might suggest.

[bleever]

2. Bill! I fondly remember the days when he was a suspicious newbie.

:thumbsup:

[JimDandy]

4. If every single security flaw observed by Hursti in Emery County, Utah

was previously known to ANYBODY, their failure to act is just as criminal as Diebold's. Utah spent more than $25 million dollars on Diebold's worthless equipment and Bruce Funk needlessly lost his job because of these CRIMINALS.

[Boredtodeath]

17. LOL, I guess you can have Bev Harris tried?

Because she knew all about it in 2003. You should ask Bev about that program she downloaded in 2003 to de-compile the DLLs and the bootloader.

Ooops!

[mmarcus]

27. Again, shaddup. What the hell are you doing?

I swore to myself I would not get drawn into this. Jesus! Just...m o v e...o n...p l e a s e.

Can you simply agree not to tear babies in half for the good of all?

[Boredtodeath]

28. We can't be afraid of the truth

As hard as it may be to swallow.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JimDandy]

92. Credibility, can be lost in an instant with one lie...

no matter how long the poster has been on a forum. And this poster, in my OPINION has been around way to long on DU. I can't give you a link to btd's recent libelous post here on DU--it's been erased--but I saved a screen-shot of it and I base my opinion on that. Why? Because she libeled me! PM me and I'll send it to anyone who wants it.

It's standard policy to post information on a forum that advances the agenda of the forum. Trolls do not follow that policy -- they simply disrupt the agenda.

[Steve A Play]

49. I don't know about that

there's tons of evidence right on this web site that PROVES that Bev Harris knows nothing about computers! Just ask David, he'll swear that Bev knows nothing about them. :)

You know, if I'm not mistaken, I think you've said that before! :rofl:

I thought this conversation was about Harri? :shrug:

[ebayfool]

5. Shouldn't that say 'BradBlog Cites Kelvin Mace'?

Real nice that Bev's buddy Jim March had to jump up & put in his little hit piece on DU.

snip/

There have been misrepresentations that RABA covered all of this. Posters on DU have libeled Hursti as a plagiarist. This is unconscionable. Yet the election integrity community has yet to take these individuals aside and inform them of the harm they are doing to Hursti's reputation at a critical time when we've finally made the pages of the New York Times.

I haven't seen anybody here claim Hursti is a 'plagiarist' - that's a distortion of people positing that Bev knew of the RABA contents & repackaged them. Methinks Mr. March has committed that which he's accusing others of doing ... libeling.

This is unconscionable. I suspect he's more worried @ Bev's (& by extension - BBV.org) reputation.

[Wilms]

6. Kelvin Mace was indeed referred to.

And I meant no slight of his contribution.

I was simply responding to Brad's reference to Bill Bored's post as having brought to light the fact that some of the recent revelation is pre-dated by the RABA report.

I'm glad, regardless of pedigree, for the hub-bub resulting from Hursti's effort.

[ebayfool]

10. I see what you're referring to, now. The 'Boreds' & Kelvin have been ...

trying to make that point in the middle of an invasion - glad to see it's been noted.

I was thinking of this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x428008

& didn't catch that they had another one linked.

[Kelvin Mace]

7. Well, they were citing my posting

at my site, but Bill Bored and BoredtoDeath were the ones who set my mind in that direction.

[ebayfool]

8. And ...

:thumbsup: to all 3 of you!

I'm still pissed @ the spin/hit piece, though!

[Kelvin Mace]

9. *sigh*

Where is this hit piece?

[ebayfool]

11. See post 5 above - March is spinning like a top.

And contorting like a circus act.
Damage control is hard work!

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002835.htm#7

"Posters on DU have libeled Hursti as a plagiarist. This is unconscionable."

[mmarcus]

29. What is with you? Then YOU come here and deal with my officials.

I am starting to want to tear my hair out. I need this ammunition, do you understand? I have not been working on this for two fucking years to finally get the ammunition I need which is BACKED UP by all the experts and have you running amok trying to discredit the source of the information. It ISN'T HELPING! Don't you realize that you are making Diebold AND my myopic local elections officials' job much easier when you keep harping on the wrong things?

Really. Damn it.

[Boredtodeath]

31. You don't think Diebold will ask the same questions?

Jeez........you think you can win this battle based on Bev Harris lies?

You better find something or someone who is RELIABLE to work with.

[Steve A Play]

57. No, we're winning this battle on the solid work of Harri Hursti,

Hugh Thompson, Security Innovation and all of the members of Black Box Voting.org who contributed to making these tests a reality. :toast:

[Boredtodeath]

58. Right.......the man who won't post his CV

cause he's too busy........ :sarcasm:

[Steve A Play]

61. No, he just doesn't want trolls bothering him.

Funny how the real experts aren't questioning him. :)

[Boredtodeath]

68. But, clearly, he knows how to REDACT contact info

cause he's sending out REDACTED reports.

No trolls can bother him if he REDACTS his contact info.

And, it will be even better if he REDACTS in red! :sarcasm:

[Steve A Play]

71. That's what professional 'white hat' hackers do.

They do an independent security analysis of a system, free of any biases. They write a detailed report about the system's vulnerabilities and have it peer reviewed by other credible professionals. Then they report their findings to the proper authorities so insecurities can be mitigated before exploits of the systems become known publicly, worsening the threat.

You claim this is 'old news' so you tell me what Harri redacted. :)

[Boredtodeath]

72. Nothing further....

Until I see the Hursti CV.

There's simply nothing to discuss with someone who won't produce his credentials.

BBV holds him out as an "expert." I'd like to see the credentials which afford him that title.

I don't believe a word the man has to say.

Someone needs to prove he's a live human being and not a figment of Bev Harris' imagination.

[Steve A Play]

80. WOW! and you think people call us "conspiracy theorists"

:wow:

Until I see the Hursti CV.

There's simply nothing to discuss with someone who won't produce his credentials.

BBV holds him out as an "expert." I'd like to see the credentials which afford him that title.

I don't believe a word the man has to say.

Someone needs to prove he's a live human being and not a figment of Bev Harris' imagination.

So I should care whether or not you believe in the existence of Harri Hursti because? :shrug:

What possible difference can it make if you think all of the people who've met and worked with him over the last year or so on these hacks or have seen him testify at live hearings are in on the mother of all conspiracies?

Are you really all that important? I never would have guessed it from your posts. :)

[Kelvin Mace]

83. Well, some of us have had experience with fake people

Bev invented. Sonja Johnson comes to mind.

[Steve A Play]

85. Yeah! That's what BTD was just saying about Harri Hursti!

Then again, YOU think everyone here is Bev! I don't know what to think.

After this place, I'm not even sure if I'm real any more. :crazy:

I need to go move the ball forward a little bit. I'll stop back later. :eyes: ............ Fascinating! :)

[BeFree]

86. Yep

They have their own special conspiracy theory... they think everyone who disagrees with them is hiding behind Bev.

Bev consumes them; she's eating their lunch and they can't get her off their minds. Sad.

Funny how they don't proclaim how great it is that the Diebold security hole has finally hit the MSM and Diebold finally admitting to it, but I guess if Bev is so far inside your head that you can't think straight, that's what happens.

[Steve A Play]

89. It's almost as if they're trying to distract from the importance of

this report. :shrug:

LOOK AT THE RABA REPORT! LOOK AT THE RABA REPORT!! It's just like the Hursti Report!

Well yeah, except where it isn't. :)

I say look at the guys behind the RABA Report! Who are they? What's their qualifications? Where'd they come from? (Hint: You are connected to their former employer every time you use your phone! And it ain't Ma Bell! :scared: )

[BeFree]

90. As if they could

This is a major report with huge implications, and is just what we've been waiting for. But those with Bev-on-the-brain can't see through the Bev colored glasses they are wearing.

I remember RABA, and it wasn't half what this report says. And what about Diebold? They dismissed RABA but now they accept defeat after this.

Hursti has delivered. And no one can take that away, though the jealous will try and try.

[Kelvin Mace]

87. Nope, once again you twist my words

Please show me where I have ever said such a thing.

I have stated that Bev continues to post here by proxy, human and computer.

You are an example of a human proxy.

That is hardly the same thing as saying "everybody" is Bev. I have also commented on the eery similarity between some people style and Bev's.

I am sure Hursti is a real person. I am also sure that Bev has been very selective in what she has told him, in case she needs another scapegoat.

[BeFree]

91. Shoot, kevin

He was just making fun of ya. Relax!

[Kelvin Mace]

63. Notice he fails to mention

RABA Technologies and Rob Behler.

[Kelvin Mace]

62. This is not about discrediting the source

it is just about the fact that information in question is not new. IF you are interested in the latest information on what Bev is doing, then go to her site. This is not the Bev Harris forum.

[ebayfool]

82. Sorry, try again. Only people I see 'running amok' are the bev-boosters.

Pointing out bevbuddy Jim March is lying @ people here has little to do w/your problem. Enemy of my enemy is not always my friend - character counts. Lack of character counts.

But Harris/March could have given you this info before now, why aren't you pissed @ that? I would think that basing your fight on bev et al is more likely to make "Diebold AND my myopic local elections officials' job much easier".



Really. Damn it.

[kster]

12. Thank you Bill Bored, for confirming the Hursti, report from Friday

and hats off to Raba and Hursti for pushing the TRUTH! K&R

[nicknameless]

13. Kudos to David and "the Boreds"!

:thumbsup:

[Steve A Play]

14. How similar are the RABA, SAIC, and Hursti II reports really?

The proper way to interpret the Hursti II Report's findings is to first examine the differences between it and the previous reports. The primary difference is that the bootloader being modifiable is a 'new' public revelation. I see nothing about that anywhere in the RABA report. That is a completely different problem in and of itself. It's also the "deal breaker" when talking about using these machines.

The actual exploit that Harri Hursti divulged in the redacted portions of his report make it clear that the bootloader can be overwritten by using the (REDACTED) port, completely bypassing the PCM/CIA slots that are meant to upload the software. Harri's exploit has nothing to do with using the PCM/CIA slot to hack the machine per se. It deals with hacking in via a separate port, and subverting the subsequent use of the PCM/CIA port by corrupting the bootloader. That's why their mitigation strategy is not effective.

The PCM/CIA attack vector has been known for years now. It's no different than using a floppy disk to plant a virus. The stock answer to that has always been that there are mitigations like passwords or external security measures that can be put in place to fix it. (locks put on the front door)

The Hursti attack exploit waltzes in through missing security on the (REDACTED) port (missing back door) to overwrite the bootloader itself via replacement of the (REDACTED) files, completely bypassing the PCM/CIA route to do it. This problem is built in to the design of the motherboard. It was a deliberate design decision and there is no way to go back and fix it now.

IOW, I can go into that machine and plant my own programs in deep hidden directories, and take control of the PCM/CIA / bootloader / software update process at startup. It can be done in such a way as to have the bootloader ignore the legitimate program on the memory card, and load my hidden program instead. You can completely remove all of the software from the machine and re-load it from scratch, with known good software, but the machine will still do what I told it to do, and run what files I want it to run after it's been completely reloaded.

I can also write my program in such a way as to have it automatically delete the hidden files, rather than expose them, if someone types in the path to where they're hidden. None of this is covered by the RABA report in it's redacted form. If it's in the full reports, then the people who authored them, as well as the people who read the reports and covered this up have a lot of explaining to do.

I'm certain that Harri must have contacted both Doug and Avi by now to set them straight on this matter. That's just the kind of guy that he is. :)

[Boredtodeath]

15. I guess Hursti will learn about Bev the hard way

Sorry, bud........Bev Harris leads everyone down a garden path.

BTW, where was Harri Hursti's CV ever published and what makes him a "expert?" I understand he's a Finnish computer person, but what makes him an "expert?"

That word seems to be thrown around by the BBV bunch without much to support it.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boredtodeath]

20. So you don't want Hursti's CV?

How's asking for credentials "bitchin?"

[mmarcus]

24. No it's just the whole thing

I edited my post because I thought better of calling it bitching. But you've got to admit, you go on and on picking fights and it really does look childish to most of us. I just never said anything because I thought if I ignored it and worked on election reform it wouldn't matter. You are constantly picking fights with Bev Harris and everyone who works with her and I just want to say "shaddup" to that.

On the other post you said yes, go for optical scans. That's what I'm trying to do and it doesn't help me AT ALL to have a bunch of people bashing the source of the report BECAUSE I AM USING IT here in Colorado to get something done and Diebold reads this stuff and passes all kinds of talking points along to elections officials and we need a united front.

It's getting really, really distracting and I'm just saying, knock it off please.

[Boredtodeath]

26. Sorry, the TRUTH must out

Before anyone relies on this work in a courtroom and has their case thrown out because the "evidence" is disallowed.

on edit:

You might want to get in touch with John Willingham in Tennessee who's case was thrown out of court because Jim March couldn't be qualified as an "expert."

[Kelvin Mace]

67. Again, if you are "distracted"

Why are you here?

[Kelvin Mace]

66. Another insightful comment

from a brand new DUer here to defend Bev.

[Steve A Play]

21. Jealous?

I don't see anyone that matters on this issue questioning his credentials so why should I care what you think. :shrug:

When Harri speaks, computer scientists listen. When he claims something, they can't dispute it. He's the real deal and they know it, and it scares them. As an election reform activist I'd think you'd be happy about having him on your side. Harri seems to bother you. Why is that?

[Boredtodeath]

23. Just pity.

Hursti will learn the hard way.

Why are you afraid to release his CV?

I suspect it's because he'd be laughed out of a courtroom just like Jim March was in Tennessee.

[Steve A Play]

30. I've got an idea

Why don't you have David contact Doug Jones and Avi Rubin and ask them why they take Harri's word for what he found? :shrug:

You really don't know who Harri Hursti is, do you? :rofl:

[Boredtodeath]

32. Hey, that's what I was ASKING for.......

please, tell me all about Harri Hursti........

I'd love to know SOMETHING about the guy.

Please, just post his CV.

[mmarcus]

37. She apparently doesn't know who he is.

She wrote that he is a no-name that BBV found on the internet. That was after his Leon County hack. I wondered about it when I read that. A no name someone found on the internet.

Google Kalle Kaukkonen (sp?).

Harri Hursti. Just a no name, move along. Someone "found him on the internet."

And this is really helpful for my own work here in El Paso County. Add to list she should write to ask for references on Harri Hursti:

Secretary of State of California
Voting machine examiner for the state of Pennsylvania
The Brennan Center
NIST
California VSTAAB panel
Doug Jones
Ron Rivest

They'll probably tell her he's a no name that Bev Harris "found on the internet."

Even I can do homework better than that.

[Boredtodeath]

38. So, prove it!

Post his CV.

Make me a fool.

Please.

[mmarcus]

40. A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to

I'm glad you are not my lawyer. Join a listserve. You'll learn who he really is.

:rofl:

[Boredtodeath]

48. You're right. And the Diebold attorneys will crucify him

Because they surely know the answer to the question.

It's wasn't John Willingham's attorneys who refused to qualify Jim March as an expert.

[mmarcus]

52. Ummm...Harri Hursti is not Jim March.

But then again, you thought Jim Dandy was Jim March. Or one of the kiddie-fighters did. I'm sorry. *guffaw*

One of the other kids needs to tell you to stop shooting your credibility in the head here, it's making the other kids look bad.

[Boredtodeath]

59. Oh, but he IS

He's just like Jim March - a computer geek with no credentials which will allow him to be qualified as an expert in a court of law.

[Steve A Play]

69. Only in your mind

You really ought to get around more in election reform circles. :)

If you only knew. :rofl:

[Boredtodeath]

70. Prove it.

A redacted CV will be fine.

Be sure to mark the redactions in red. :sarcasm:

[Steve A Play]

73. Too bad you weren't around for our on-line Think Tank

Harri answered lots of questions during his segment. It's still on line on the front page of the BBV.org web site.

Maybe you can find out something about him in that thread? :shrug:

[Steve A Play]

77. That would be redundant!

:rofl:

[OnTheOtherHand]

22. I think that's the wrong direction

It's a fair question (Hursti's credentials), and I can't answer it offhand, but I have a strong impression that Doug Jones thinks highly of Hursti's competence and work.

I think folks should be careful not to beat up on him just because he works with BBV.org. AFAIK there is nothing wrong with his report; it confirms previous work and adds additional information.

[Boredtodeath]

25. Why?

Shouldn't an "expert" be proud of his CV?

If this ever ends up in court, Hursti will have to be qualified as an "expert" before any of his findings are allowed as testimony.

Shouldn't we ALL be concerned about that?

[Steve A Play]

35. I really don't think you have anything to be concerned about there!

I doubt that any country in the world would fail to recognize him as an expert in their courts.

Lets just say Harri is a well known, highly respected professional who has used his talents to earn the means to ensure that his private life remains private. We're damn lucky to have him doing this for us. It's not like he's got a record for bank robbery or anything. :)

Besides, wasn't his work also peer reviewed by Dr. Herbert Thompson and Security Innovation? They sure think his work is legit. You seem to be the only one questioning his work. Is there something in his report that you disagree with? :rofl:

[Boredtodeath]

36. So why are you afraid to post his CV?

Seriously.

What have you got to hide?

[mmarcus]

39. Wow. Just, wow.

Digs hole, dives in head first. Can you say "security clearance"? There are experts, and then there are experts. I guess she isn't on some of our listserves.

Tells me all I need to know about the credibility of boredtodeath.

[Boredtodeath]

44. Security clearance?

OMG! ROFL, the Bush White House has taken over the conversation!

Too effin' funny!

[mmarcus]

50. (can this person be any more clueless?) n/t

:silly:

[Steve A Play]

55. I certainly don't think so!

LOL! :rofl:

[Kelvin Mace]

78. We are attempting to establish fact

not paranoid delusion.

[Kelvin Mace]

76. Let me get this straight

His "security clearance" requires him to keep his degree a secret?

[OnTheOtherHand]

75. right now, not so much

Personally, I have seen so much "expert opinion" on exit polls that strikes me as ridiculous, it would be hard for me to work myself into a lather about Hursti's credentials -- but of course, that isn't your point.

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that if a judge is taking the case seriously and isn't satisfied with Hursti's credentials, s/he is going to order someone to provide expert access to a machine during discovery. And if a judge isn't taking the case seriously, even in the face of all the expert reaction offered so far, then the prospects are bleak anyway.

In the meantime, I know of no such case. But there are election boards all over the country deciding whether to buy DREs. I see no reason actually to be unhappy that this story has been widely covered, on the basis that Bev Harris looks too good in the coverage. Your Mileage May Vary.

I can conceive of a plausible argument that we would be better off without the latest report, but I can't say that you have begun to persuade me.

[Kelvin Mace]

74. I have seen nothing to make me doubt Hursti's credentials

but I haven't seen them either.

This is a simple matter to establish, and I cannot understand WHY Bev refuses to establish her expert's bona fides.To claim they are "protecting him" is paranoid nonsense. Mercuri, Rubin, Jones, etc. have managed fine and not been assassinated or molested.

[OnTheOtherHand]

81. yes, I agree, get it open and over with n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

65. You keep ignoring Rob Behler

and Bev's 2/03 interview with him where he lays out the exact problem and descibes the hole in use.

I am not questioning Hursti, only Bev knowing this information for over two years.

[OnTheOtherHand]

18. thanks, great post

Whatever anyone thinks of the Bev Wars, it is good to see important work moving forward.

[mmarcus]

33. for boredtodeath and others

"According to eye witnesses, the fatal accident took place while Mr. American A. Citizen was driving down the highway to deliver a critical security briefing to the nation. Children in the back seat distracted him so that he didn't see the oncoming Mack truck in time."

Please. We need to keep our eyes on the road.

[Boredtodeath]

34. You're right - we do.

And that's exactly why WE should ask the questions BEFORE Diebold gets to.

[Steve A Play]

41. Umm, I don't know how to break this to you but

Diebold has already admitted in writing that Harri is right about what he found. Thank Michael Shamos for that. :)

[Boredtodeath]

46. So that means you have nothing to be ashamed of

Why not post Hursti's CV?

[Steve A Play]

53. Harri doesn't like to brag about his accomplishments

and he's a very busy man. He doesn't want it posted because he doesn't want to be bothered by trolls.

Everyone that matters seems to know who he is. Why are you so interested in his background?

[Boredtodeath]

54. ROFL, OK

But, frankly, anyone who relies on a man who won't post his credentials is a fool.

BTW, you do know how to redact contact information off a CV don't you?

Clearly, Harri Hursti has something to hide.

Everyone who is discussing this issue should be VERY concerned about who they are relying on for proof.

[mmarcus]

45. Uh, apparently you are not even in the loop as much as me

somehow because of the posing I thought you were one of the higher up people in election reform. You really don't know?

Diebold already knows. Why do you think they caved instantly and agreed to redesign their machines?

Now I know EVERYTHING I need to know about your credibility. You don't even know what, like, 150 of my friends do, and they aren't even following this. Maybe they left you out of the loop for a reason.

As Dana Carvey used to say on SNL:

"Don't think so. Wouldn't be prudent."

I guess some people think it wouldn't be prudent to let you join their lists.

:rofl:

I promised I wouldn't get caught up in this shit.

[Boredtodeath]

47. Ohhhhhhhh! I get it now......

There's a super duper secret election reform society? Where you need White House security clearance to join!!!!!!!!!

Wow!

So, how does this affect letting the world know who Harri Hursti is? Is he some super duper secret agent?

[mmarcus]

51. Yahoo Groups is a secret?

Oh - my - God. I think no one is answering you because we're watching you dig your way into the credibility graveyard.

[Boredtodeath]

56. Really? I think it's Hursti's credibility that is in question

So you're relying on someone you know nothing about, right?

Never seen his CV or credentials, right?

That's a BRILLIANT move! :sarcasm:

[mmarcus]

60. Better than a CV:

Diebold instantly capitulates: Diebold Election Systems Inc. plans to make changes to its electronic voting machines, following the disclosure of a number of serious security flaws in the systems.
On Thursday, the voting watchdog organization Black Box Voting published a report detailing how Diebold's TS6 and TSx touch-pad voting machines could be compromised by taking advantage of "backdoor" features designed to allow new software to be installed on the systems.
http://www.techworld.nl/idgns/214/backdoor-found-in-diebold-voting-machines.html

Just in (no link) from one of my listserve mates in Texas: The state of Texas has put approval of the Diebold machines ON HOLD because of the Hursti Report.

Apparently Hursti's credentials are good enough for Dr. David Dill: Verified Voting Newsletter
Posted here at DU by Papau
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x428414

boredtodeath, are you invited to all the different conference calls on how to capitalize on the Hursti Report, or are they leaving you out? Is that why you're thrashing around here, because no one will play with you? Because I just got my invite to one and what they are planning sounds really, really exciting. For the first time, I think we are going to WIN THIS THING!

Better things to do now. Gonna leave the noisy kiddies with the babysitter and go do something more meaningful about election reform.

[Boredtodeath]

64. Oh, no, I was on the calls

and it's the same old, same old Bev Bullshit without any backup.

And, it's nice you're silly enough to rely on a man you know nothing about.........:sarcasm: (need this tag because evidently you don't know when you're being made fun of)

[Kelvin Mace]

84. Diebold made the same promises when the problem

was first discovered in 2003.