HR550 conflict in Florida?

[garybeck]

doesn't Florida have a law stating that it's illegal to count the paper ballots when a machine has already counted them? and if there is a discrepancy, doesn't the machine count take precedence in FL? seems like the 2% audit in HR550 would conflict with this.

[demo dutch]

1. Here's the link to the laws

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/laws/AdoptedRules/ElectionsRules.shtml

[Land Shark]

2. if in conflict, fed law would prevail unless unconstitutional

and there are constitutional arguments regarding state's rights being made by others.

[Peace Patriot]

3. I don't know--I recently re-read the elections provision in the Constituti

tion, and it says the states control elections unless the feds decide to intervene. And I imagine that's what the Voting Rights Act is based upon--it was an effort by the fed gov't to eliminate egregious violations of black citizens' voting rights in the south (which included, among other things, murder, beatings and poll taxes). But now the danger is just the opposite--that a fascist fed gov't will centralize and control all fed elections, and good luck to you if you try to get your voter registration un-purged in a Bushite controlled central database, or would like to see the actual count of actual votes in an election system run by rightwing Bushite electronics corporations.

Congress has already basically destroyed our election system, with the "Hack America's Vote Act"--perpetrated upon us by the biggest crooks in Congress, Tom Delay and Bob Ney. I don't know why people think that THIS Congress--the most illegitimate Congress we've ever had--is going to restore our right to vote, when they are the ones who took it away (or, rather, the Anthrax Congress did--but this Congress is even worse than that one). HR 550 has some good provisions--and people think those are going to just sail on through?

But even if we get a Congress this year that is a little more representative of the majority of Americans, we have to realize that BOTH Democrats and Republicans have been into privatizing our election system and into boondoggle electronic voting money (and into the uncontrolled military spending and warmongering that results from elections controlled by Bushite corporations). Diebold and ES&S are not going to permit a truly representative Congress. (And, in addition to their thumb on the scales for Bushites and warmongers, you have our filthy campaign contribution system, and all kinds of weights given to white rural and rich peoples' votes and taken away from urban brown and poor peoples' votes).

Frankly, I'm beginning to suspect that at least some of HR 550's many co-sponsors have the agenda of PRESERVING some of the darker features of the war party's election system, may intend to weaken the good provisions of the bill (and still call it "election reform"), and have deliberately hidden the loopholes (very poor auditing provisions; institutionalization of the Bushite-appointed election commission, the EAC).

I can't deny that a real paper ballot nationwide would be a good thing--at least give us a chance to MONITOR election results--but after these peoples' SILENCE on HAVA, I really don't trust ANY of them.

I think we need to chuck the whole HAVA boondoggle, eat our losses, clean house and start over, creating a TRANSPARENT election system that is entirely in the public venue, and under the public eye.

But I'm also a realist--and I see that we are going to have to deal with increments of transparency, and hope that we can start electing good people (protectors of our right to vote) that way.

[nicknameless]

4. K&R for Florida

[eomer]

5. Here's the manual recount section of the new law:

There's a new sentence (I bolded it) in the first paragraph that seems to be in conflict with the 2% audit.

CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/laws/05laws/ch_2005-277.pdf

Ch. 2005-277 LAWS OF FLORIDA Ch. 2005-277

<snip>

Section 59. Section 102.166, Florida Statutes, is amended to read:

102.166 Manual recounts.—

(1) If the second set of unofficial returns pursuant to s. 102.141 indicates
that a candidate for any office was defeated or eliminated by one-quarter of
a percent or less of the votes cast for such office, that a candidate for
retention to a judicial office was retained or not retained by one-quarter of
a percent or less of the votes cast on the question of retention, or that a
measure appearing on the ballot was approved or rejected by one-quarter of
a percent or less of the votes cast on such measure, the board responsible
for certifying the results of the vote on such race or measure shall order a
manual recount of the overvotes and undervotes cast in the entire geographic
jurisdiction of such office or ballot measure. A manual recount may
not be ordered, however, if the number of overvotes, undervotes, and provisional
ballots is fewer than the number of votes needed to change the outcome
of the election.

(2)(a) If the second set of unofficial returns pursuant to s. 102.141 indicates
that a candidate for any office was defeated or eliminated by between
one-quarter and one-half of a percent of the votes cast for such office, that
a candidate for retention to judicial office was retained or not retained by
between one-quarter and one-half of a percent of the votes cast on the
question of retention, or that a measure appearing on the ballot was approved
or rejected by between one-quarter and one-half of a percent of the
votes cast on such measure, any such candidate, the political party of such
candidate, or any political committee that supports or opposes such ballot
measure is entitled to a manual recount of the overvotes and undervotes cast

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Ch. 2005-277 LAWS OF FLORIDA Ch. 2005-277

in the entire geographic jurisdiction of such office or ballot measure, provided
that a request for a manual recount is made by 5 p.m. on the third day
after the election.

(b) For federal, statewide, state, and multicounty races and ballot issues,
requests for a manual recount shall be made in writing to the state Elections
Canvassing Commission. For all other races and ballot issues, requests for
a manual recount shall be made in writing to the county canvassing board.

(c) Upon receipt of a proper and timely request, the Elections Canvassing
Commission or county canvassing board shall immediately order a manual
recount of overvotes and undervotes in all affected jurisdictions.

(2)(3)(a) Any hardware or software used to identify and sort overvotes
and undervotes for a given race or ballot measure must be certified by the
Department of State as part of the voting system pursuant to s. 101.015. Any
such hardware or software must be capable of simultaneously counting
votes. For certified voting systems, the department shall certify such hardware
or software by July 1, 2002. If the department is unable to certify such
hardware or software for a certified voting system by July 1, 2002, the
department shall adopt rules prescribing procedures for identifying and
sorting such overvotes and undervotes. The department’s rules may provide
for the temporary use of hardware or software whose sole function is identifying
and sorting overvotes and undervotes.

(b) This subsection does not preclude the department from certifying
hardware or software after July 1, 2002.

(b)(c) Overvotes and undervotes shall be identified and sorted while recounting
ballots pursuant to s. 102.141, if the hardware or software for this
purpose has been certified or the department’s rules so provide.

(3)(4) Any manual recount shall be open to the public.

(4)(5)(a) A vote for a candidate or ballot measure shall be counted if there
is a clear indication on the ballot that the voter has made a definite choice.

(b) The Department of State shall adopt specific rules for each certified
voting system prescribing what constitutes a “clear indication on the ballot
that the voter has made a definite choice.” The rules may not:

1. Exclusively provide that the voter must properly mark or designate his
or her choice on the ballot; or

2. Contain a catch-all provision that fails to identify specific standards,
such as “any other mark or indication clearly indicating that the voter has
made a definite choice.”

(5)(6) Procedures for a manual recount are as follows:

(a) The county canvassing board shall appoint as many counting teams
of at least two electors as is necessary to manually recount the ballots. A
counting team must have, when possible, members of at least two political

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Ch. 2005-277 LAWS OF FLORIDA Ch. 2005-277

parties. A candidate involved in the race shall not be a member of the
counting team.

(b) Each duplicate ballot prepared pursuant to s. 101.5614(5) or s.
102.141(6) shall be compared with the original ballot to ensure the correctness
of the duplicate.

(c) If a counting team is unable to determine whether the ballot contains
a clear indication that the voter has made a definite choice, the ballot shall
be presented to the county canvassing board for a determination.

(d) The Department of State shall adopt detailed rules prescribing additional
recount procedures for each certified voting system which shall be
uniform to the extent practicable. The rules shall address, at a minimum,
the following areas:

1. Security of ballots during the recount process;

2. Time and place of recounts;

3. Public observance of recounts;

4. Objections to ballot determinations;

5. Record of recount proceedings; and

6. Procedures relating to candidate and petitioner representatives.

Section 60. Subsections (2) and (4) of section 102.168, Florida Statutes,
are amended to read:

<snip>

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