On hating Republicans...

[Amaryllis]

I posted a response to some people saying they hated Republicans in another thread and then decided to make it a thread in itself.

As Mark Crispin Miller and so many others say, this is an AMERICAN issue. And if you read Andrew Gumbel's book Steal This Vote, he details a long history of election fraud by both parties, as does "Votescam." The Republicans have control of the eletronic voting industry, but they have certainly been aided and abetted by MANY complicit Dems such as Conny McCormack in LA county, Cathy Cox in GA, Linda Lamone in GA. If you've been following this issue for long, you know that they are all staunch defenders of Diebold. some of them even have their photos on Diebold's promotional literature.

And the Democrats in CA stood by and watched them take down former CA SOS Kevin Shelley, a true defender of democracy and chamnpion for transparent, verifiable elections, and replace him with Arnold's appointee, Bruce McPherson.

And now we have the Republican governor of MD coming out for paper ballots and saying he does not trust the elections in MD to be fair or accurate, while Dem Director of Elections Linda Lamone fights activists every step of the way and continues to pimp for Diebold and insist that their voting machines are perfectly secure even after the Hurti Hack. (see Bradblog archives; can't find the link)

I know republicans who are extremely upset over what they consider the hijacking of their party. You might ask why they remain republicans, but frankly, looking at the actions of the Dems in congress...what's to make them want to switch? How many of you are proud of the congressional Dems overall, with some exceptions?

Read this on the home page:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/CrisisPapers/...
Ernest Partridge: The Democrats: Missing in Action
Posted by CrisisPapers in Editorials & Other Articles
Tue Mar 28th 2006

<SNIP>
Election Fraud: "The Dragon at the Gate"

If the Democrats are to capture at least one house of Congress in November and if, as a result, the American people begin to take back their own country, the party must first of all slay the dragon at the gate: election fraud. For, as anyone who dares face and study the evidence must appreciate, because GOP partisans build the unauditable machines, write the secret software, and count 80% of the votes, "the people's will" at elections is essentially irrelevant. The election results are simply what the GOP wants them to be, as they were in 2000, 2002, and 2004, and as they will be again in 2006 – provided conditions remain essentially as they are now.

Accordingly, the restored integrity of the ballot is the sine qua non of the overthrow of the Republican autocracy in November.

Meanwhile, the Democratic Party, those "useful idiots," steadfastly refuse even to recognize that there is a problem with the voting machines and vote compilations.

Nevertheless, the electronic voting scam is beginning to unravel, thanks to the determined efforts of a few dedicated individuals, an uncensored internet, and ad hoc citizen organizations along with all too few maverick politicians (notably John Conyers and Russ Holt), and despite the determined indifference of the Democratic Party and the mainstream media.

More and more e-voting outrages, failures, and statistical impossibilities are coming to light, and even breaking through in the media (most recently in Ohio, Texas, Chicago, and California, and the public is beginning to take notice. This awareness accomplished some significant victories, notably in New Mexico and Maryland, where "black box voting" has been abolished by state law. If this trend continues, and if a few available albeit unused modes of verification are put in play, it is just possible that November's election with be sufficiently (if not totally) honest to put an opposition party in control of at least one, and possibly both, houses of Congress. Then a balance of powers will be restored and the investigations, with subpoena powers and threat of perjury and contempt of Congress in play, may begin to probe the corruption and abuses of power of the Bush regime.

So, once again, opportunity knocks at the door of the Democratic Party. But if the Party persists, with the cooperation of the corporate media, in ignoring this opportunity, then that Party is once again likely to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

<snip>
________________________________________________________________

We will alienate potential allies if we make this a partisan issue.

Quote by Chuck Herrin, Republican:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/paperballots.htm
"Now, don't get me wrong- I'm no Bush fan either, since I am a true compassionate conservative who still believes in quaint ideas like fiscal responsibility, not engaging in nation building, and personal responsibility... There were very obviously problems in the recent election, but I would like to say that the recent election was not THE problem. The recent election is a SYMPTOM of the real problem, which is the shocking lack of integrity of our electoral process.

Chuck goes on to talk about why we need paper ballots NOW and to make the case for how easy it is to steal elections wtih computers.

And:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/ConservativeEmpathy.htm
"Empathy Training for Compassionate Conservatives: Why the Democrats Are Still Whining About the Election (and Why Maybe We Should Be, Too)"

"Was the election stolen? So what do we do?

Fact is, we don't know and may never know. The worst part about where we are is that IF fraud has been committed, those who did it may have done it so well that we may never be able to know for sure. We need to take a look at the REAL problem and re-frame the issue. The problem is not that John Kerry lost the election. That is just a SYMPTOM of the real problem, which is that the electorate may not be under the control of the American people. We need to re-frame this debate under different terms that EVERY American can understand and support.

There appears that there was definitely a grab for power, but it was not the Republicans stealing power from the Democrats. If it happened, then a small group of Republicans stole the power from the American People as a whole.

<snip>

One of the great and fundamental aspects of our Democracy is that the pendulum of power is designed to swing back and forth, with each party having control for a while, and then after a while control changes as the pendulum swings the other direction, pushed by the will of the American Voter. Think about it – Carter, then Reagan / Bush, then Clinton, and then Bush, and then by most accounts, the pendulum was apparently supposed to swing to Kerry. But it didn’t. Why? What if rather than the will of the American voter driving the direction of the pendulum, a small group has figured out how to keep the pendulum from moving away from them and towards the opposition. I’m going to quote Stalin again, since apparently a small group of people figured out that what he said so long ago really is true – “Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything”. The cold cunning behind those words gives me chills sometimes."

___________________________________________________________________
Once again, by making this a partisan issue, rather than an AMERICAN issue, and by gross generalizations, we alienate potential allies.
It bothers me to hear people making statements such as "I hate Republicans," or even calling them rethugs, repugs, repukes, etc. etc.
I have talked to too many who are extremely distressed about what is happening to their country.

[nicknameless]

1. PLEASE understand.

This is a complicated and unfortunately well-conceived plan by (I'm sorry) the rethugs.
Life-long rethugs are registering as Dems and then disenfranchising Dems.

The head of the Dems in Ohio, according to Fitrakis, had been a life-long rethug.
Teresa LaPore (sp?) in Florida had also been a life-long rethug.
Conny McCormack is clearly working for the rethug party.

If they were Dems, they wouldn't be working for the rethugs.

[MadMaddie]

2. Oh what a tangled web they weave...but they are inherently

stupid.....the stupid shit always catches up with them doesn't it..

[nicknameless]

4. I hope it will catch up with them.

And I hope Amaryllis' signature will hold true this time too:

“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS.” - Gandhi

[Amaryllis]

5. The point is in the FRAMING. If you frame it as a republican problem, you

lose many potential allies! If you frame it as secret vote counting has NO PLACE in a democracy, and private corporations have no business counting our votes in secret in a democracy, then as Thom Hartmann says, anyone from Joe Sixpack to a physics professor can understand it! did you read the Chuck Herrin articles talking about how if Dems want people to listen to them tney need to start framing it differently? My best friend from college, a lifelong Republican who has the kind of values Chuck Herrin mentions...fiscal responsibility, etc. etc. is totally on board with the election issues but would not have been if I'd been spewing repubican hating rhetoric.

Herrin is a REPUBLICAN!

[nicknameless]

6. I KNOW Herrin is republican. And he gets bent out of shape when people

ask him why.

I'd never suggest "spewing republican hating rhetoric" at a friend who hasn't seen the light yet.
But we need to speak frankly about what has happened without having to walk on eggshells to do it.

If people know what their party is up to, but just don't care -- or worse, they agree, why treat them with kid gloves, (as they rev up their chainsaws)?

[nicknameless]

3. Chuck Herrin is great.

(I'll try to clean up my language for this one, but still won't capitalize. ;) )

The republican party has abandoned many of its members. The republican party used to be The Party of Lincoln.
Herb Caen used to joke that they were now the party of stretch Lincolns.
The leaders of the republican party, and those who CHOOSE to follow them, have come down clearly on the side of corporations and the uber-rich.
They show nothing but contempt for democracy, for women, for the poor, for the disabled and infirmed, for the environment, for health care, for the middle class, for consumers, for national laws and the Constitution, for international law, for human decency, for human life ....
How many am I leaving out?

The name calling, it appears to me anyway, is about what the republican party is doing.
To remain a republican, under these circumstances, is to choose *that* side and to choose those "values".

If the Democratic party were the one that switched to all the law-breaking and lying and murdering, I would leave them in a heart beat.

We can't all be expected to "play nice" while we're being run over by Mack trucks. Or hold all our anger inside and suffer the health consequences of doing that.

This IS an American issue. When will those "republicans" who *are* alarmed at what has happened decide to put their Americanism above their republican party affiliation?

[Land Shark]

7. A significant amount of confusion can be avoided just by

remembering who the audience is. DU is a progressive audience, the Kiwanis club is mixed.

This is a hard issue. I think every comment in the thread makes a good point/perspective. in the end the public conversation is best off if it is as Amaryllis writes, and the conversation among progressives needs to have the elements/issues nicknameless talks about

[nicknameless]

11. The OP sounded to me to be a criticism of what was being posted on DU.

:shrug:

[GuvWurld]

8. I'm with Amaryllis on this

We The People are being intentionally divided - through Orwellian paradoxes that create rifts in the perception of reality, oppressive rhetoric and policies that squelch dissent or fail to represent balanced viewpoints, the removal of the barrier between church and state, campaign season issues like flag burning, gay marriage and stem cell research, and on and on.

By dividing We The People, those in power make it that much more difficult for us to unite ourselves in opposition to the illegitimate government which does not serve our collective interests. Seen this way, it should be clear that we need unity, perhaps above all else if we are to truly have a genuine chance at shifting the balance of power between We The People and the government (that shift is my definition of peaceful revolution).

Shifting this balance is what seems to me to be the real goal (with election reform being the primary tactic) and it is why I post threads like A Broader Perspective on Our Fight For Elections. So to make this possible it is imperative that we not simultaneously sabotage ourselves by pushing away those with whom we need to unite. We need to portray a vision of a "better" way and include everyone in the debate about "what would be better?" This is how to be inclusive, positive, and goal-oriented.

For more on this way of thinking, please read Blueprint For Peaceful Revolution.

[Amaryllis]

12. My point exactly: we need to not push away those with whom we need

to unite if we are to win this one. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we do.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

9. Refuse is not the right word, it is PRETEND

The Dems who are "refusing" to admit there is a problem are
probably "covering up" the problem because they are benefiting from it
in some way.

In many states, it is the democrats in power trying to keep
the crooked machines in place.

They have made it impossible to know if an election is
legitimate.

This is a case of deliberate protection of a
corrupt system.

[Amaryllis]

10. I think it's both. The specific people mentioned are benefiting in some

way AND there are many people who just plain refuse see it.