VVPR - One step further

[rumpel]

A paper record does nothing really for me as one private citizen, unless the results are contested by a candidate, and even should there be a mandatory random recount, to verify whether my vote was counted.

The debate on the continuous paper roll and secrecy can be solved if I can actually verify that my ballott is in the final tally, and if not, I should be allowed to get an explanation from the county why it either differs or was invalidated or purged.

If they insist on the speed and convenience over transparency and tamper proof electronic devices and software, how can I be assured that after verification at the polling place, my electronic data goes missing, is tampered with or purged or glitched through honest computer errors?

Here in CA we had live tally updates at the SOS on their website. It should not be that difficult of programming to be able to click on the final count (pre-certification and after certification) and see if the final tally in fact contains my vote in each race.
Whether you can access the tally through your registration number with a combination of passwords and possibly other security measures, it should be doable.

While I throw out this thought for debate, I also see the additional problems of security measures that need to be implemented, particluarly in light of the the trend towards privatization and outsourcing of governmental responsibilities, as well as the overall unreliability of computer security. However, I can access my bank account details online, why not my vote data?

While my gut says, why make it so complicated, let's go back to paper ballotts and handcount, which I prefer, if they insist on technology implementation in the voting process let's be fair to the voters and provide capability of individual verification with the click of a mouse.

Just a thought.

[Wilms]

1. I know of two issues that brings up.

One is the secrecy of the vote. And the other, which is related, is about the potential of votes being bought/sold/coerced.

[rumpel]

2. remember this post of last year?

took me a while to find it

from my post #104 in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=281678

Registration by party
Dem Rep Total Other Decline to state Total
2,016,280 1,071,615 178,794 706,049 3,972,738 (as per State)
3,901,106 as per LA
71,632 difference in voters

Interestingly, 71,632 fewer registered voters in LA than what Sec State has on record as of 10/18/04 last day for 2004 election.

Considering the news about the software used for voter registration database in FL, I started to wonder whether there was some serious purging of voter registrations in LA County, after election day up to certification.

I still do not know how LA County total voters reported to State SOS on Oct 18 is suddendly so much less at certification time.

[Wilms]

5. I don't recall this.

Are you wondering if there was a purge that left voters disenfranchised, as had happened in FL 2000?

[rumpel]

6. Sorry it took so long to check the thread. Yes, and since it is LA no one

will bother to look.

I do not think that from October 18 to, was it late December (?) 71,000 people died, relocated or were incarcerated. And since this is the figure of registered voters, it has nothing to do with whether these people voted in that election or not. Or is it that we had 71,000 less registered voters in 2004 than 2002?
With interest in the 2004 election that high, I find it strange and inconceivable.

Meanwhile I also found this for provisional ballots: San Francisco lets you check if your vote was counted. (I am in LA not SF and I go to the polls so I can not test it)
http://www.sfelections.org/pv/

[Wilms]

7. I see. And that does seem strange.

Have you seen any other referrence to this?

[BeFree]

3. The only secrets....

...are held by private companies. I think anyone should be able to have their vote made public. Besides the OP clearly states that his choices would not be listed, only that his vote was counted. And then, if we go there, (good idea) then he should be able to see that it was counted correctly. If we are going with high tech, why not go full tilt?

Why obscure things, Wilms? Why do you obfuscate?

As to the of votes being bought or sold, they have laws against that. Let them be enforced if broken, and lets get elections open and verifiable. Lets get companies out of the whole thing altogether.

[Wilms]

4. What am I obfuscating?

The OP was not about changing the law to get rid of vote secrecy. I raised secrecy as an issue that seems to be invoked here, as well as votes being bought/sold/coerced.

I don't see the obfuscating here.

Further, seeing that your vote was counted, but not for whom, may not help us verify the count.

If your advocating changing the law so as to remove secrecy it's an argument you can easily make. Many people consider it a better idea. I believe you could referrence Rebbeca Mercuri, too.

-on edit-

Not Rebecca, but Lynn Landes. Her suit before the Supreme Court involves challenging vote secrecy.