I'm convinced now that Bev Harris is working against us

[Boredtodeath]

Hear me out.

Over the last few days, BradBlog has done some major damage to Diebold with the stockholder lawsuits (there are TWO now). Both of these lawsuits are based on O'Dell's destruction of the Diebold ATM brand with their voting machine division and their lack of security.

Then, lo and behold, along comes Bev Harris with another entirely unsubstantiated claim trying to grab the headlines away from the real news - the harmful news. Perfect timing for all the press to point their finger at Bev and say "I'm not touching this story because she's not credible."

So, now, thanks once again to Bev Harris, the press fails to cover important Diebold stories keeping the damage out of the mainstream press.

Does anyone believe this is coincidence???????

[Lost4words]

1. The press has been MIA on vote fraud all along,

for the sake of our nation no doubt.

[Boredtodeath]

5. Not Keith Olbermann

Until Bev Harris threatened to sue him for trying to cover the issue.

[ovidsen]

8. Whoa!

I didn't know Bev threatened to sue Keith... or that Keith caved!

Not that I don't believe you (I do), but do you have a link?

Go Keith!

[Boredtodeath]

9. Here

• December 1, 2004 | 11:25 p.m. ET

More than one kind of black box (Keith Olbermann)

NEW YORK - I’ve been avoiding this topic for four weeks now, but given what I understand are a lot of dropped jaws around the blogosphere, I think I better spill this.

I don’t think Bev Harris of Black Box Voting is doing anybody any favors.

I suggested as much tonight on Countdown and there were a lot of understandably surprised emails. Some profane, incidentally, which had previously been the exclusive province of those who notified me of their opposition to anybody covering anything about voting irregularities or especially Jesse Jackson’s F-Word.

Each and every day since our coverage of all this began on November 8, I have received a set of emails, some times a few, some times many, asking “Why don’t you have Bev Harris on Countdown?,” “Why don’t you run the Bev Harris videotapes?,” “Why don’t you show the voting tapes Bev Harris found discarded in the trash in Florida?”

Because she won’t let us.

I have not dealt with Ms. Harris directly, but my staff has, and though we have asked her on a regular basis to let us show these tapes on national television, she has declined.

We are running in risky waters as it is, offering a platform for tapes we can’t independently verify. But I have heretofore been convinced that she had credentials sufficient to make an interview segment with her both useful and reasonable.

My ample gut has lately sent me a different message, and her showdown with Palm Beach County Elections Supervisor Theresa LePore on Monday seemed to buttress my instinct. She burst into LePore’s retirement ceremony, her cameraman rolling tape as she did so, and she raced to the podium to announce to the shocked room full of supervisors that she was “serving” LePore with papers as part of her lawsuits over what she claims are LePore’s evasions in providing records of the 2004 vote.

The usefulness of that videotape to the immediate issue at hand - were there widespread failures of the electronic voting systems in this country on November 2nd, and if so, were those failures enabled by any malfeasance - has an expiration date. If they show irregularities, if they show public servants at their worst, even if they’re guerrilla-style political confrontations, they have a public value - an urgent one.

Have you seen them?

What Ms. Harris has left herself open to is a charge that as much as any interest she has in the justifiable public concern over our most precious right - the right to a reliable, honest election - she may also have an interest in making her own documentary, on her own schedule, for her own purposes.

What Ms. Harris has also left herself - and by extension anybody who is advocating investigation, or merely covering the story - open to, is the charge of grandstanding, of tin-foil hatting, of being somebody who bursts in to a room and screams at public officials, videotape running all the time, artificially creating news.

Me - I think that can be justified. Guerrilla politics - even guerrilla news - isn’t pretty, but it’s often necessary, as long as it’s news you’re interested in. It’s necessary, as long as you take advantage of the opportunity to disperse what news you’ve gathered, promptly and professionally, especially if that opportunity can serve the public good, and comes with relatively few strings attached (“can we see it first so we know what the hell we’re broadcasting?” - the same thing we ask anybody with news videotape not shot by an NBC or affiliated camera crew, whether they’ve recorded a hurricane or a cat nursing a puppy).

It has been pointed out that Bev Harris was scheduled to be on Countdown back on November 8 but her appearance was cancelled. I haven’t addressed this before, either. But we didn’t cancel on her - we wanted, on that first night raising this touchy subject nobody else had previously covered, to have more mainstream guests. And we wanted her back another night. And since then we’ve wanted her to come back with her video. And she hasn’t.

I don’t know her motivations and I don’t know her bona fides. But I’m afraid at this stage, intentionally or by the simplest of communication failures, she isn’t helping illuminate this issue. And every step that attracts heat but not light is another step towards discrediting the entire process.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008 (scroll down to Dec. 1, 2004)

[Boredtodeath]

10. AND here

One final note here. I should clarify what I wrote in this space last night about Countdown’s interaction with Bev Harris of Black Box Voting. My staff is not certain that any of our messages to Ms. Harris inviting her on the show since the week of November 15 have specifically asked her for permission to play the videotapes of her work trying to audit the Florida vote. We think so, but I’ve got only three people booking all the guests on this program, and they each probably make about 100 calls a day.

Complicating our effort is the fact that even as we hoped to provide a platform to publicize and illuminate her efforts, Ms. Harris had returned none of the messages left on her own voicemail by Countdown staffers since she spoke to our staffers briefly, twice, during the week of November 8. Only today did she even get back in touch with us, and was so belligerent, threatening, and demanding, that we have chosen to withdraw our invitation to her to appear, or to have videotape of her efforts played, on Countdown.

Threats against myself or my staff will not be tolerated. We are not only busting our humps on the voting irregularities beat, but we remain the only mainstream news organization to continue to cover this vital story. These are my people — they are running professional risks I can’t begin to describe — and I will stand up for them, first, last, and always.

(same link, bottom of 12/2/2004 KO blog)

[ovidsen]

18. Thanks

I must have been asleep at the wheel. Or something. I owe you for doing the work I should have done.

edit: I just read the updated post from Stephanie on the Bev Harris mess, which has co-incidentally been voted onto the greatest boards. It's almost more than humans should be allowed to know, but I'm glad I know these things.

[coffeenap]

2. You are not alone--see links below to DU discussions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2311138&mesg_id=2311138

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2311256

:hi:

[Ladyhawk]

72. Bev Harris showed her true colors a long, long time ago.

I don't pay any attention to her. It's unfortunate she still has any power.

[still_one]

3. I never had any faith in bev harris

always had the impression that she was just trying to make a buck

However, I don't blame her for the MSM NOT covering the insider diebold CEA scandal. That is the MSM, not her

It has taken the repukes YEARS to place their people in various MSM news organizations, and we are now reaping the results of that

Frankly there is very little coverage of the Fitzgerald investigation. I have no doubt if this was a democrat there would be news every night

Look how much coverage Martha Stewart got. Very little about diebold, enron, i.e. ken lay etc.

There is a double standard going on in this country, and the media are up to their neck in it

We are quite fortunate that AAR came in when they did. If they didn't, we may not have had any airwaves

Of course we have DU and other blogs, but getting control of the airwaves is vital

[OnTheOtherHand]

4. probably coincidence, yeah

I wish I had a buck for every time I think someone is offering an entirely unsubstantiated claim that distracts people from the real news. But I doubt that the press is going to make its decisions about covering Diebold lawsuits based (even rhetorically) on what Bev Harris says about Ion Sancho.

And if I thought that everyone who offers IMO unsubstantiated claims was deliberately working for the dark side, I would probably have to slit my wrists. (Which some folks might consider an improvement....)

[Febble]

6. Don't even joke about it! n/t

[EFerrari]

20. I wish I had a buck for evey media outlet that has

recoiled from this movement because of that grifter's behavior.

[liberalnurse]

7. Let me share my simple thoughts .....

Fuck Bev and the elephant she road in on........:smoke:

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. LOL!

n/t

[elehhhhna]

12. She'sa frigging double agent.

Face it. She takes money wherever she can grab it and Carlyle Group probably owns her ass lock, stock & barrel.

If anybody's seen her lately--has she moved? Bought/sold property? New car?

She was a very, very effective DISTRACTION.

Follow the money.

[flyarm]

46. elehhhhna..you have her exactly right!!! hey you want to support her

anyone?? do a background check on bev..start in illinois!!
Then go archive keith olberman's blogs fall 2004!
then ask kevin mace here on du...
then go look on the freeper blogs when Andy Stevenson was dying...you want a good picture of bev...just start there!!

she makes me sick!

fly

[Peace Patriot]

13. Boredtodeath, I was willing to "hear you out," as you ask--but your OP

tells me nothing. "Along comes Bev Harris with another entirely unsubstantiated claim." Please explain what you are talking about. What is the "unsubstantiated claim"?

Also, on what do you base your sweeping statement that the press doesn't cover Diebold stories "thanks once again to Bev Harris." I think that "the press"--that is, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, who doctored their own exit polls and put false numbers on everybody's TV screens on election night, to hide evidence of a Kerry win--have their own reasons for suppressing stories about Diebold, election fraud and associated issues; their own collusion in election fraud, for one thing.

So, I think you are blowing Bev Harris' influence (whatever it may be) way, way out of proportion. And, you know, Harris brought more attention to Diebold than any other activist, for a long period of time. To say that, "I am convinced now that Bev Harris is working against us" is a very definitive and damning position, and requires evidence to back it up. You might better have said, "I suspect...," or "I strongly suspect...". But "convinced"? You don't have to repeat old history. I'm familiar with the Countdown story. And I think that that incident could as well be explained as P.R. mistakes (by a techie caught in a media hurricane)--or exhaustion, or instability, or quite understandable fear--as by "Bev Harris is working against us." You don't have to like Harris, or approve of everything she's done, to hesitate over "I'm convinced she's working against us."

But first, what are you talking about? What is the "unsubstantiated claim" that you say she has made?

[Peace Patriot]

14. P.S. And let me say, this matter is extremely important to me, as I am in

California, trying to help on the Diebold re-certification matter. I need FACTS--related to the ON-GOING events here.

[Boredtodeath]

17. And I've been fighting in Georgia and North Carolina for 3 years

But if you're depending on Bev Harris for FACTS, you're going to get badly burned.

[Kelvin Mace]

50. Well, Bev dealt you a severe screwing

with her suit in California.

Because she filed suit and the state "took over the suit" (a possibility she and I discussed many times so it was NOT unexpected), the suit was settled "with prejudice". Meaning that although Diebold had to pay $2 million and promise to be good, the evidence raised in the suit could never again be used against Diebold.

Bev walked away with $152,000 for herself, Jim March and their lawyer. Supposedly, the money went to BBV.org, a non-profit that has yet, to my knowledge, to account for hom much money it raised and how it was used.

[Neil B Forzod]

63. that's not 100% accurate

Most of Bev's half of the money went to BBV.org, if you believe her claims (I do on this particular point -- see the discussion below). She claims to have tithed 10% to the church and donated the rest to the non-profit. Jim donated a couple of thousand to the Open Voting Consortium and bought a motorcycle. He may have given then rest to the non-profit, but he's never made that claim as far as I know (although I suspect he probably did -- see below).

Also, I don't want to give the wrong impression here -- it's not exactly "noble" of them to have "donated" the money to their non-profit.

Bev would have had to pay taxes on her windfall, but donating it to "charity" turned it into a big personal tax deduction instead. In turn, the "charity" turns around and pays her salary, so it's really just an elaborate exercise on paper for Bev to avoid double-taxation and to get a big tax refund on last year's other income.

Jim March is no longer a board member at BBV, he quietly resigned and took a paid position as an employee instead. So now BBV is paying his salary too -- which basically means a bunch of DUers are (unwittingly?) funding this guy's lifestyle. I'm pretty confident that he made this switch so that he could execute the same accounting trick as Bev did, but it's less clear (because he never publicly claimed to have given the money to BBV, at least not to my knowledge).

Neil

[Kelvin Mace]

66. And Jim is SUCH a nice guy

if you like creepy gun-lovers.

[Peace Patriot]

15. Article about Sancho and the Diebold testing in the Miami Herald today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5603973

A very, VERY good article. Just read it through. Sancho blows Diebold out of the water--and says he's ALSO suspicious of ES&S. Article skewers Florida state officials. Includes descriptions of BBV (and other) testing and quotes.

Go, Miami Herald! Owned by Knight-Ridder, the best, most honest news service in the country (the only one, really)--currently under attack by rightwing corporate raiders.

[Peace Patriot]

16. Miami Herald lead on doubts about voting machines...

December 15, 2005

Title: "New tests fuel doubts about vote machines"

Subtitle: "A top election official and computer experts say computer hackers could easily change election results, after they found numerous flaws with a state-approved voting-machine in Tallahassee."

-----------

(After Sancho's blast...)

"Sancho first clashed with Diebold in May, when he teamed up with a nonprofit election-monitoring group called BlackBoxVoting.org, which has made a crusade of showing that electronic voting machines are subject to fraud. BlackBox hired Herbert Thompson, a computer-science professor and strategist at Security Innovation, which tests software for companies such as Google and Microsoft....(snip)

"Thompson told The Herald he was 'shocked' at how easy it was to get in, make the loser the winner and leave without a trace. The machine asked for a user name and password, but didn't require it, he said. That meant it had not just a 'front door, but a back door as big as a garage,' Thompson said.

"From there, Thompson said, he typed five lines of computer code -- and switched 5,000 votes from one candidate to another.

'''I am positive an eighth grader could do this,' Thompson said."

(snip)

"Over the past few months, computer expert Harri Hursti tried to manipulate election results with the memory card inserted into each Diebold voting machine. The card records votes during an election, then at the end of the day is taken to a central location where results are totaled.

"Hursti figured out how to hack into the memory card by using an agricultural scanning device easily available on the Internet, said BlackBox founder Bev Harris. He learned how to hide votes, make losers out of winners and leave no trace, she said."

---

Another quote from the article: "After BlackBox and Sancho announced the results, Diebold's senior lawyer, Michael Lindroos, wrote Sancho, Leon County and the state of Florida questioning the results and calling the test 'a very foolish and irresponsible act' that may have violated licensing agreements."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/13410061.htm

---------

And this, to me, is the point: "...violated licensing agreements." What the hell are private "licensing agreements" doing in our election system?!

----------

Now, tell me again how Bev Harris is causing "the press" not to cover this story?

She got one of the few honest newspapers in the country to cover it, as the result of active challenges to the technology. And she's helping an election official in one of the worst election theft states in the country to find out what's going on, to remove these election theft machines from the system, and to once again cause Florida state election officials and Diebold to make fools of themselves.

I'd call that a good day's election reform work--and I don't care what you may have against Bev Harris.

Is there no hope of redemption in your world? Or do you agree with the fascists that reformed murderers--and any innocents who don't have the wherewithal to defend themselves--should be executed anyway?

[EFerrari]

21. Peace Patriot, would you explain to me how that grifter

"got one of the few honest newspapers in the country" to cover this story?

And as far as redemption goes, isn't that gift usually based on some awareness of wrongdoing?

I for one have recieved no call from that grifter indicating that she is even aware of her misdeeds, let alone that she regrets them.

Respectfully, I find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with you here.

[adolfo]

22. Straight from the horse's mouth

http://www.leonfl.org/elect/SpecialReport.asp

Personally, I wouldn't give a sh*t if Bev likes to prance around in a tutu before investigations.

[EFerrari]

23. Hmm. I don't see here that that grifter

was responsible for the reportage.

And, while I'd like to adopt your attitude, it would be irresponsible for me to do that, given that I have seen how destructive she can be.

[mgr]

25. there are questions as to whether this is a current post, or the post from

last spring. The date is for the day of the week, not when posted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=405005&mesg_id=405005

The Herald article verifies that BBV and Leon have continued collaborating, but that is really about it.

Mike

[flyarm]

36. this was on another thread and it was explained this press release was

from May 2005..it is not a current press release..evidently each time this links is brought up on Leon Counties site it posts the current date...and others posted that this press release was from May 2005

please see this du link and look at threads 38-50 ..for clearification!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=404851&mesg_id=404851

look at links 38 through 50

fly

[mgr]

24. No sale

I would not conclude that BBV was who told the Herald, but the BOE. If you look over the hyperbole in the BBV release, you don't see the same breadth of what was originally charged, but measured language of a bureaucrat in a visible public office.

That it is in the Herald is consistent with its approach to addressing voter issues from the progressive perspective, whether that is to reinforce them or puncture them is open to debate.

The story certainly does not go to Leon County divesting itself of Diebold equipment, but does go after what in the world the Secretary of State for Florida was doing accepting these machines as HAVA compliant. That's where the smoke is.

But watch how it is spun as to which party's benefit this potential switching is to.

Mike

[kster]

30. Does that mean the Miami Herald is working against us to

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

33. Thank you for your considered contribution to this discussion.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

19. What liberalnurse said.

We (Brad, are you listening) have to pre-empt these preditable moves on her part. She's like clockwork, so reset your watch. Block her from the outset.

[Einsteinia]

26. With all due respect, Do you believe in magic?

I dunno, but let's think about this:

How do you think Bev got Hursti *and* Dr. Thomson to both head over to Leon County together to quickly "do something to counter the Wally O'Dell firing and stockholder suits" and drag attention away from Brad? And that she convinced Ion Sancho to go for all this on about a day's notice?

Remember, Hursti had to come in from Finland. You're claiming that Hursti, who owns several companies in Europe and is a multi-millionaire, dropped everything in response to Bev's plea to jump back in the spotlight?

Isn't it a BIT more likely that the second Leon County visit was planned months in advance and that the timing with O'Dell's booting and the stockholder suit is coincidence?

Also have you read yet read this morning's coverage of this story from the AP wire on this SECOND Leon County test?

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/13414791.htm

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/13413981.htm

The Miami Herald is reporting:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/13410061.htm

...as is USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-15-opticalvoting_x.htm

[EFerrari]

27. I guess shell games might be called "magic".

I understand where BTD is coming from, completely. We'd be incredibly dense not to monitor BEVWORLD given the damage it has caused.

[Einsteinia]

28. Forget BBV, let's look at the evidence--that's

all I'm saying.

[Peace Patriot]

31. Well, that's kind of what I was getting at. You always have to look at

your sources, and evaluate motives, honesty, reliability, etc. I'm not saying, don't do that. Also, I have people I've known whom I wouldn't be in the same room with, so toxic are they as personalties, and devious in personal and public ways, but I wouldn't necessarily dismiss their information or activism on an important issue, nor immediately assign them the worst motives ('in bed with the enemy,' or whatever--even though I know somebody who actually was, in bed, that is), because, well, partly because I've lived in Hollywood, and know that people in the media spotlight can get very crazy--just the spotlight itself hurts some peoples' reason and judgment (the limelight is a very difficult place to be, in the nutso media world that the corporate news and entertainment monopolies have created--a toxic environment); and partly because I know people can change, and partly because I want to believe that people can change, and partly because I know that people are mixed bags of motives, very complex, not easy to see clearly, and partly because I want to be compassionate, and am suspicious when people condemn other people, and make scapegoats, and keep heaping abuse on them--anger, rage, epithets, revulsion. (I even wonder about people who do this to Bush and Cheney & Co. Some remarks are funny, and a good vent, but others seem very much a projection: they are evil, and so I am not).

Every time BBV does something--or is in the news--somebody jumps in here and condemns her again, as if she were the Devil Himself, and the Devil can never do good works. And almost never do they stick to (or even address) the matter at issue.

I know it's easy for me to say this, because I wasn't involved in the controversy. I got to DU at the tail end of it (and avoided it like the plague). Stlll, I've known similar situations, and I think an effort should be made to separate out the personal from the issue itself, with of course due consideration of the sources of information.

In the big picture, I'm sure there are many, many people who have no knowledge of this controversy, and associate the issue with BBV, and are inspired by BBV. Are we not doing harm to the issue by this visceral dislike of BBV constantly repeated in the same often quite emotional condemnatory tones?

I could give you some examples of inspiring public figures, who caused me to get involved in certain movements and projects in a big way--something I'm certainly glad I did--but, if I'd heard all the dirt, and all the rancor, and all the grievances surrounding them, I think I would not likely have done so. A happy idiot, maybe. But I was better off not knowing--because it had nothing whatever to do with the rightness of the movement or project. The internet trumpets these grievances, and all the dirt and all the rancor, everywhere. Shouldn't we give this some thought, when that same negative emotion comes bubbling up again at the keyboard?

[EFerrari]

32. Due diligence.

Personal relationships between other people are none of my business.

It would also be wrong, in my opinion, for me to distract from the difficult work this forum does. To insert my reactions to behavior, that at bottom, has nothing to do with this work -- that is so much more important than any one of us.

The case of the grifter falls into a completely different category. She has stolen from DUers in this very forum. She aided and abetted not only Andy's stalkers but also, mine and several other DUers that are in this very forum. She put us at physical risk, plain and simple. And, of course, you all know the crap she pulled and continues to pull with David -- even better than I do because I went 'way out of my way to "stay out of it". Until I was yanked into it.

If you want to rehabilitate the grifter, that's your choice. But know, no matter that your motives are as ethical as possible, this is what will happen: she will again manipulate, abuse and steal from a new set of victims. To expect a different result is unrealistic. I can't be part of such a wrongheaded project, obviously, because while it may be unpleasant at times, I have a responsibility to you of due diligence. I hope I have fullfilled it.

Over and out.

[Einsteinia]

34. I've known Jim March for sometime now and

he was there testifying that "Diebold must be voted off the island." when it was revealed not ONE of the 17 counties had certified software.

He had never lied nor even exaggerated, so when he sends me something, I do believe it. Thus far, he has a better track record than most of my other well intentioned allies. And the report was also sent to me by John Gideon and reported on Brad Blog. And about this crazy idea that BBV has a conspiracy against our election integrity efforts, it just does not add up:

How coud have Bev arranged this test so fast so as to supposedly "take the wind out of Brad's sails"? Including set it up with Sancho AND import Hursti from Finland?

Also, why did she write an article supporting Brad's story on the stockholder suit, linking straight to him as the story's source and saying "here's some ammo":

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/15571.html

...if she was trying to derail Brad's wagon?

This is a illogical theory--if not a conspiracy theory--if you want to stick to fact based discussions.

[EFerrari]

43. I look back over your postings and I notice that the message

some of us are trying to get across to you is being missed.

You may admire Jim March. Some of us who have watched his work, in TN for example, are still watching.

But, also, wondering why someone you esteem so highly could possibly be working for that grifter.

In addition, you have called our concern about that grifter "nutty". It's possible that because you have not (yet) been ripped off, smeared or stalked, that concern seems "nutty" to you.

It might not be a bad idea to do some homework before slinging judgments around in that way.

[Kelvin Mace]

54. If I had a nickel

for every former Bev supporter who told me they were sorry they hadn't listened to me...

[Stephanie]

70. count me as one

:hi:

[Kelvin Mace]

51. If you are going to bring Jim March into it

You are aware that he has made it quite plain he is in this for the money?

[flyarm]

37. excuse me but i believe you were made aware in another thread this

was an old press release from may 2005...from this link..you were made well aware of it and acknowledged your mistake.,...

post 38 through 50 and above..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=404851&mesg_id=404851

fly

[Einsteinia]

39. Final correction: That was not true.

Not to perpetuate this discussion, but I see some people are getting hopelessly confused.

You did not read through all the threads. What has been established is:

The post was 99% accurate. It refers to a new SECOND test performed on 12/13/05. It is quite different from the previous hack back in May, because unfortunately that one was dismissed by election officials because they felt there were enough safeguards that that hypothetical attack could never happen in reality.

Whereas the new hack of 12/13/05 shows that the memory cards affecting the ballots are directly hackable and there are no safeguards to keep it from happening. So, finally Ion Sancho of Leon has had enough, and now says he no longer wants Diebold. In fact, he'll dump it.

The 1% that was wrong was the link to Ion Sancho's statement was off his website which had not been updated since the last time, yet the date when you click on it, gives you the current date. So, yesterday on 12/14--the day after the SECOND hack had been accomplished that link said it was 12/14--but we later realized it was an artifact of their funky website system that update the date to the date you look at it--instead of telling you the date of the actual posting. It was an error easy for anyone to make.

Today the SECOND hack's success and its widespread implications has been picked up by the AP Wire, US Today and severl other mainstream press outlets.

So, you're implication that this story is not true is NOT true.

[Stephanie]

69. monitor this - they're trying to rehabilitate her >

must be fundraising season:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/18/185734/69

[Boredtodeath]

29. I believe your faith in Bev Harris is mightily misplaced

And your attacks on DUers, coupled with your attacks on the folks on dKos who tried to tell you the same thing 2 days ago prove you are incapable of rational discussion.

BTW, I don't see Bev's name in ANY of those articles, nor do I see ANY confirmation of what Bev alleges in her posts taking credit for everything.

[liberalnurse]

35. Okay, you apparently have been

watching the re-runs of Harry Potter again haven't you. Permit me to enlighten you....Bev Harris is a Dried Up Old Crone with her broomstick up her ass. She was expelled from Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.......for being a troll.

Essentially, you can never sell Bev Harris at this Board...ever.

[flyarm]

38. you have that precisely right liberalnurse!!

she even threatened to sue k.O. until she realized they were going to bring on the calvery... on her ...and she was going to be exposed as a fraud
for all the world to see..
i do believe i read on du in the spring or summer that she offered to pay to be at a forum to speak as her support had all dried up...and she was looking for new victims..

yes she wanted to <pay> to be a speaker at a voter forum...so she could suck more unexpecting victims in...

she is a filthy pig!

fly

[Jo March]

73. Fly, remember - she threatened to sue DU as well

Remember that lovely post from "back in the day?" I do. She was unhappy over the use of BBV. We had to bow to her will and let her run the show and be in charge or we'd all get sued.

Bev is bad news. Always was, always will be. I never sent her a dime but I wanted to believe in her because I believe in the message: Our votes were stolen.

[kster]

40. What does your personal opinion of BBV have to

do with ELECTION REFORM for Christ sakes! Should this even be posted here.

[EFerrari]

42. Absolutely.

After this whole forum has been traumatized by that grifter, it would be silly not to keep tabs.

What part of stealing, smearing and stalking are you not understanding?

[Kelvin Mace]

52. BBV is not Bev

despite her desire to sue everyone who claims otherwise.

[eridani]

41. Not sure that she has any serious influence anymore

I just checked www.blackboxvoting.org, and there is very little posting there. A busy evening's worth of posts on this forum is about four month's worth over there. Two people who post over there who have some credibility (John Gideon of Voters Unite, and John Washburn) don't post frequently.

My strategy is that I'm not going to go after her in public, mainstream venues, but I'm not going to donate to her or list her or her site as a resource.

[Boredtodeath]

44. Bev slamming scientists on BradBlog

To all of those telling us we should endorse working together, I suggest you START with Bev Harris:

They will come forward, but only after citizens like you and I and Brad make it "safe" for them to do so. You know, wouldn't want to lose a nifty grant or a day's pay or get a whif of criticism on one's Ph.D. I'm also getting damn tired of the tidy refusal to look at incriminating program code due to DMCA concerns. I'll put it on the line here: I have stated to these scientists and now publicly -- if someone has to go to jail for reverse engineering elections code that has put our national security at risk, I'll do it.

In fact, there are many of us who'll do it. We don't have three or four elections more to waste while the tidy bowl men tiptoe around this thing.

Sorry for the rant. You can't believe the stuff I see, day after day, while out in the field. Watching the hack yesterday -- which took a grand total of 45 minutes for Harri to create, and just minutes to execute, literally made me sick. It made Florida Fair Elections Director Susan Pynchon cry. She's been begging -- BEGGING the U.S. scientific community for help with hundreds of pages of Volusia County logs she has, filled with anomalies, from the 2004 records that she got and we got (I gave the whole stack to her for her lawsuit). From the big cheeses who waltz around Washington D.C. she got zip, nada, and mostly not even a glance at her documents.

Too busy to look at evidence, but not too busy to hobnob or accept a 7 million dollar NSF grant. I have learned of an all hand-counted paper ballot location with 3,500 voters and up to 30 questions on the ballot that gets its votes counted accurately before the voting machines are done on Election Night. Asked one of the scientists why they are rejecting paper ballot solutions based on one lame-ass study about how the human brain works, presented at NIST, instead of fricking studying actual locations that do it. Of course we all know the answer: Keep the computers involved, keep it complex, and you've got lifelong job security. The answer I got, by the way, was that "ACCURATE" will look at that. In a year or two. What the hell is THAT?

Well I am not waiting for some "solution" that we don't even know is even there to appear in a few years. We've got to roll up our sleeves and make this happen, working around our country's lobotomized academia to get this into the press any way we can.

All things considered, reporters are struggling just like we are.

Whew.

Rant central.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002156.htm

Yeah, she's willing to work WITH anyone, isn't she?

[OnTheOtherHand]

45. well, she gives one passionate, provocative take on a crucial issue

Let me say at the outset that I am not interested in carrying water for Bev Harris. (I don't think that she is literally "working against us.") And I do think that organizational leaders should count to 1000 or so before posting self-described "rant(s)." I'm just reacting to part of the content here.

Basically, if activists and academics aren't frustrated with each other, something is probably wrong. All the norms are different -- they 'play by different rules.'

Harris seems to be angry at computer scientists for not giving higher priority to studying hand-counted paper ballots. Uh, doh. Yeah, you could say that they are clinging to job security, but you could also say that they prefer to do what they have been trained to do, what they know how to do. It takes a while, at best, for academics (or anyone else) to form the personal and intellectual relationships across fields that enables them to address complicated social problems. (The voting system has lots of problems.)

Then there is the standards-of-evidence thang, although this doesn't apply as much to Harris's post. On average, activists and academics have very different beliefs about what happened in 2004, and very different ways of talking about it.

[Boredtodeath]

47. Not the first time Harris has taken on the ACCURATE academics

She has long accused them of being a part of the "conspiracy" to steal elections.

Her reference to the scientist who "knew since 1996" about rigged voting machines is a reference to Doug Jones. He is the state certifier for IA and reviewed Diebold then. But, guess what? Doug Jones is hindered by a Non-Disclosure Agreement in his job as state certifier.

But, according to Harris, Jones should violate the law and tell all, going to jail - leaving that $7mil those academics got for research to her. You'll note, she's never stated she wouldn't take that money.

And, tell me, what HAS she achieved here? Sancho dumped Diebold for ES&S............ooooooookay! That's a big step...............BACKWARDS.

[OnTheOtherHand]

49. shrug

AFAICT, Jones isn't spitting mad at Harris, so I will stay out of that. If Harris actually says that ACCURATE is part of a conspiracy, well... umm, actually, it has been repeatedly suggested by various folks on this board that I am part of a conspiracy, so I try to keep a sense of humor about all that. Still, if she actually says that, then it's IMO staggeringly irresponsible. I'm just saying that there's a dynamic here that goes beyond Bev Harris, however publicity-hungry or conspiratorial or counterproductive or wicked or crazy or whatever she may be.

[Neil B Forzod]

64. minor correction

Bev is angry at the academics because:

a) none of them take her seriously;

b) they actively refuse to reference "Bev Harris" or her "work" when they speak to the media; and

c) they didn't offer to include BBV when they submitted their ACCURATE research grant request, and they don't plan to share any of the $7 million with BBV or Bev Harris.


She's posted as much before (although way less succinctly; you have to wade through the miles of self-righteous ranting on her forum first).

The academic community largely views "Black Box Bev" as a crackpot who damages their credibility at every opportunity. Bev views the academic community as a bunch of opportunists who got a bunch of money to study an issue that she feels she's responsible for publicizing, and she thinks she's entitled to commensurate recognition and a share of the cash.

Neil

[OnTheOtherHand]

65. yeah, that sounds about right, although

Doug Jones gives Harris at least some credit on his website. But I'm really not especially interested in that part. Take the money and the particular personality out of the equation, and one can find some similar statements coming out of other people's mouths. (I'm not trying to make excuses for her -- I just found it an interesting surprise in an otherwise relentlessly depressing thread.)

[Boredtodeath]

81. You should read her current attacks on David Dill

at her website. Dill TRIED to work with them last week and she attacked him with unfounded, unsubstantiated lies.

I don't think much of David Dill, myself, but I sure as hell don't go around attacking him in public. The ISSUE is larger than the personalities - or should be.

[Kelvin Mace]

48. BradBlog still views her as credible

and she posts there. AP had a story on Leon Co. yesterday.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-15-opticalvoting_x.htm

(AP needs to learn how to spell "scrapped").

Bev is out for Bev. Whether she has actually done some good in this case depends on the facts at the end of the day.

All I know is she is on the smear offensive again, as I know have a hostile poster on my site and have been getting the usual abusive emails.

[NC Beach Girl]

55. bradblog

I can't believe he still views her as credible when she insinuated that he is making up Dieb-throat on her forum....maybe he doesn't read her forum, not many people do.

[Kelvin Mace]

58. She has been mentioned in stories

so I can only assume.

[NC Beach Girl]

56. oops, the link

Should have included the link...

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/8/15560.html

and because things so often mysteriously disappear from those forums, here is the quote:

I am convinced that Dieb-Throat carefully read my book, and carefully read Rob Behler's interview, and carefully read my article about GEMS and Jeffrey Dean's employment during the time the double set of books was put in. But I haven't seen information in Dieb-Throat's revelations that has not been public before. That is not typical for interviews with true insiders.

So...Brad's Dieb Throat is just a guy who has read all the things BEV has done, how shocking.

I know we should focus on the work that needs to be done, but I can't stand to see Bev start once again smearing anyone else who starts getting publicity. I can't sit idly by and watch her dupe a whole new crop of people who don't know her past.

[NC Beach Girl]

53. Working against us and FOR ES&S???

I have seriously thought for a while now that Bev works for a voting machine company...
she puts up a lot of smoke about ONE company while the others are selling the same crap everywhere and I can find no other rational reason for how she acts.

Her big story on her site about machines being dumped in FL has no mention that they are replaced with ES&S machines that have not been given the same test, you only see mention of that in some of the newspaper articles. Ummmm...huh? Why would they not test the machines FIRST before making a decision to buy them as replacements? Why would someone working for improvements in voting leave out the fact that the bad machines were being replaced with untested machines??? Why would a real activist not throw a fit about that happening and push hard for testing to see if the new machines had the same problems instead of acting like this is a victory of some sort???

Perhaps because it would jeopardize her next paycheck?

I think she's on the ES&S payroll and until she releases her secret financial records from freaking 2004, then I guess I have nothing to prove me wrong.

I also question how a board member (Jim March) can suddenly be a paid employee (which I saw mention of in comments at Bradblog). Seems shady to me but then again, we are talking about a board that refuses to release the financial records of a non-profit organization...despite Bev claiming that they had hired an accounting firm to audit them and they'd be releasing the information oh...a year ago.

[elehhhhna]

57. I think she works for the RNC. Woudn't be at all surprised if she

pops up in the Abrahmhoff investigations.

SHE GETS PAID TO DISTRACT< DISRUPT< AND DISCREDIT THE VOTERS RIGHTS MOVEMENT

[BeFree]

59. CRAP

This CRAP has to end. Bev is history and yet you keep dredging her name up just to throw CRAP at her. She may deserve it but it does no good for this forum or for the movement to keep wading through it.

Just stop it, boredtodeath. If you won't do it for me, do it for the cause, if you care.

[FogerRox]

60. Does this thread need to go any further? eom

[sunshinekathy]

61. Volusia county too & 3 (three) mainstream press reports on Diebold

Are you kidding?

Bev's news generated THREE mainstream press reports yesterday on the Leon County story AND now Volusia County, Florida has also voted to scrap the Diebolds.

Mainstream press articles are a great tool to convince our elected officials to stop conceding elections they may've won and to stop buying the election tamperer's dream machine - and counties in NY, NC and many states are NOW at this moment considering purchasing Diebolds.

Here is the email I sent to my list today. Please feel free to plagerize it:
-----------------------------------------

Two Florida Counties, one using Diebold optical scan machines, and another using Diebold DREs have scrapped Diebold and decided to switch to ES&S optical scan voting machines and the AutoMARK ballot marking device. ES&S voting machines are independently auditable; its optical scan machines are easier for election officials to use; and they use a secure operating system.

Volusia County, FL Dumps Diebold Too!
Opts for Transparent, Accountable Elections (Instead of Diebold Elections)
After a Protracted Battle...

This just in...After various protracted legal battles (funded by the
National Federation for the Blind, which had received a $1 million
"donation" from Diebold previously) and along with the
news out of Leon County, Florida, <http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002156.htm>
Volusia County has now come to their senses and also decided to
dump Diebold voting machines!...

URL: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002169.htm

Yesterday the main stream press covered the Leon County, Florida story. The following three AP, Miami Herald and USA Today articles might be excellent to print and give to your local officials with a one page cover letter you write with bullets taken from the articles:

FL: Leon County - New tests fuel doubts about vote machines
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13410061.htm

FL: Leon County - Elections supervisor: Some Diebold voting machines can be hacked
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/13413981.htm

FL: Leon County - County says electronic voting machines can be hacked
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-15-opticalvoting_x.htm


I hope the above information will help you in our fight to ensure democratic elections.

Please donate to our 501 (c)(3) to help cover our $2300 of legal expenses for obtaining our 501 (c)(3) status. Thank you to the few people who donated almost $100 total since my last plea for donations and thank you to our $10/month sustainers who donate a total of $450/month to keep our server and underpaid system administrator going, and thank you to every one else who has donated. We urgently need your continued support to hire the programming staff to create what is the biggest technical project planned by any election activist group - a public election data archive that will collect and publicly distribute detailed vote counts from the over 3300 separate county election offices that is currently unavailable because every county in America conglomerates its vote counts before publicly releasing them - thus hiding the evidence of vote tampering. We have a legal right to the data that we need and are only missing the funds to hire the urgently needed full-time programming staff.

http://electionarchive.org/fairelection/donate.html

Best,

Kathy Dopp
http://electionarchive.org

To join this email list, simply email
[e-mail]
and reply to the confirmation email.

ElectionArchive is devoted to ensuring that vote counts accurately reflect voter intent.
----------------------

note: Any of you can subscribe to John Gideon's "Daily Voting News" to receive an email with links to all press voting articles by simply emailing [e-mail] and asking to be added to his "Daily Voting News" list.

note: The most crucial task that we all can perform, to ensure that future vote counts accurately reflect voter intent, is to educate our elected officials and candidates not to concede any election until after reviewing the detailed vote counts broken out by precinct and vote type, and obtaining an independent audit or meaningful recount of voter verified paper ballots where possible. (I have been told by a politician that they respond well to news articles, and appreciate a one page bulletted cover page that summarizes and refers them to the information you give them, and that if the information you provide is very long, you can simply give the long document to the executive secretary and give the one page summaries to the officials referring them to the longer document.)

[FogerRox]

62. go figure

[Timefortruth]

67. Meanwhile over at Kos, Bev and her surrogates

are trying to recruit attacks to be leveled here,in this thread.

http://dailykos.com/story/2005/12/18/185734/69


It's all about Bev. If she and her devotees want vindication, they should release the tapes, open their books and express profound remorse for the additional suffering Bev caused Andy.

[Kelvin Mace]

68. This fellow has been posting on my site as well

Here are some of his accusations:

Your statement about "turning her freeper attack dogs loose on a dying man." is an outright lie, for example - and I have the goods. You know full well how this all went down, even though you posted a bunch of crap - Frank Solich contacted Bev by email, then he posted her email, she came on and got mad that he was bringing her into the Andy thing. Meanwhile Andy called for a jihad against Bev's kids. And you posted over and over all sorts of crap about her. DO NOT DENY THIS - I have the goods.


Your claim of a freeper attack on Andy is an outright lie..something you repeated over and over at DU. If anyone is the freeper it is you, who I have heard is good friends with PJComix, a fellow comics publisher, and as a lot of people now know, PJComix teamed with Frank Solich and "Steve" aka Anonymous Army against Andy Stephenson. We also know that Frank Solich is the one who opened scamdy.com, and initially put your name on the WHOIS.


So David, is it true that PJComix is your buddy? RBHam has posted that you are a freeper. RBHam is well respected.

Anybody know who RBHam is?

[EFerrari]

71. This guy is obviously nuts. Is he still bothering you?

Notice the pseudo logic: You must be PJ's buddy because of comics publishing. This is a good sample of how unhinged this guy is.

This poster gets into interminable and ridiculous altercations all over the net, David. I'd just cut him loose. It won't end because he's not rational.

[Kelvin Mace]

74. Yep, and now hard at work on part 2

of his nonsense at Daily Kos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/18/185734/69#120

[OnTheOtherHand]

75. wow, this guy is pretty funny (if one has a dry sense of humor)

"There is a group of folks...freepers, paid operatives for the neocons, whatever, that look for and cling to those who believe in wild conspiracy theories."

Moreover, all the DU mods hate the cause of truth, and you have a sock puppet who expresses opposing views, but we know is you because his handle alludes to a comic book character. And that is damning evidence that a coordinated pack of trolls are determined to drown out real truths. But that isn't a wild conspiracy theory, no. That is Research.

That is all so lame-ass, it almost makes me hope some part of it is actually true just to break the monotony.

[EFerrari]

76. LOL!

[garybeck]

77. I disagree, and I'm not alone.

First let me say, I am not going to answer at all to any responses.

You are entitled to your opinion, but those who read this forum and don't know the facts need to know that there are people who disagree with your view of Bev Harris and BBV. I personally know many of the people in this activist community and I have had extensive conversations about this issue with many of them. Everyone has their own opinion. Yours is one of the most extreme I have heard.

I don't think she's trying to divert attention. The media would ingore these stories about Diebold regardless. Your theory of blaming it on BBV because they are trying to divert attention is pretty far fetched in my opinion.

I am not a great defender of Bev's, but I think you go overboard in your criticism and your conspiracy theories about her.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OnTheOtherHand]

79. whoa there, whoa, that's just silly

I expressed the same opinion far upthread, and I stand by it. And no one who is paying the least bit of attention should think that I am a BevBot. There is no reason to think that garybeck is a BevBot either, unless a BevBot is anyone who doesn't agree with the premise of your OP.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OnTheOtherHand]

82. and innuendo is yours?

Umm, let's see. garybeck posted once to the BBV forum politely asking when a report would come out. And here on DU, last December, he asked, "will Bev sue anyone who says 'BBV'? ... Am I going to get sued for using the words Black Box Voting on my website, without putting a 'registered trademark' next to it? this all seems crazy." http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=108750&mesg_id=110470

Yup. Definitely a BevBot.

If all you have to bring to the forum is obsession with Bev Harris and abuse for people who don't share it, we have a problem.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

84. And if you stubbornly refuse to see the damage that grifter

has done to activists and to this work in the press, we have a problem.

If you believe for one minute that what happened to David and what happened to Andy and what happened to me is our problem, then you might have a problem.

I think you can catch the refrain from here.

Or, am I misreading?

[OnTheOtherHand]

87. yes, respectfully, I think you are misreading

Part of the problem may be that you can no longer see, and perhaps never saw, the specific posts to which I was responding.

I am not defending Bev Harris. I thought that would be clear by now. I am sorry if I don't seem sufficiently vehement in my attacks on Bev Harris.

Bev Harris, from all I can glean, has put a lot of people in a lousy situation, to which people are responding in different ways. IMHO we should make every effort not to make those differences do further damage. This does not mean that I am asking anyone not to tell their Harris stories, and you will notice that I have not criticized anyone for telling their Harris stories. I do not think that we should attack each other. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that.

[EFerrari]

88. I apologize. And that's why I asked.

We really need to find a way around the distractions or, the terrorists win. :)

[EFerrari]

85. You haven't been smeared or stalked by her yet.

And I hope you never will be.

[FogerRox]

86. tommorrow , this thread will be a week old--

I dont see any reason to breath life into it again.

OPinions from all over have been expressed-- fine-- good.

What is the value of a repeat post? Sometimes none.

Should the DU/BEV history be kept alive for the noobies to see? Sure, I see value to that.

Has this thraed gone way past being of any value in that regard? Sure.

I think this thread is done-- stick a fork in it.

[EFerrari]

89. I agree and suggested a solution, am there.

But the fact is, one of our DU activists is this very day being assaulted.

What is the ethical response to that?

Show me, and I'll hop that train. I've no stake in keeping everyone from the focus we need to protect.

:(

[philb]

90. Its possible she's just not very competant; or very careful what she says