Mark Crispin Miller - WOW!

[demodonkey]

Just watched the Washington Journal (11/27/05) online, with the segment featuring Mark Crispin Miller. He was fantastic!

What a great interview; he really covered a lot of points in his comments, handled some callers' really nasty "tinfoil" remarks (only worse) with grace, and handily debunked all sorts of things callers brought up (ACVR, "voter" fraud, etc.)

In addition to 'plugging' his book, he managed to send viewers to votersunite.org (and through them to some of our state groups; my own group got an e-mail today from a C-Span viewer who had come through that way!) and also to the EIRS site to see the scope of voter intimidation and other incidents that went on last year.

This was truly impressive, and the kind of thing we truly need to start working on people who for whatever reason can't or won't bring themself to see what is happening in our elections. (Reasons for which are talked about in the segment, BTW.)

Here's the link (segment starts at about 1:33:05 and ends at about 2:16:35)
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Series&Code=WJE&ShowVidNum=9&Rot_Cat_CD=WJ&Rot_HT=206&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=100&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

Here's a link to an earlier discussion on GD that I didn't see until tonight after I watched the show:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5460242

[shance]

1. He was amazing and eloquent was he not? A true statesman.

He gave me hope of qualified, reasonable individuals realizing the acute issue of electronic voting.

Hope at some point he might run for office. We need more like him.

[petgoat]

2. DOJ Sues MO for Voting Violations in 2004

This was reported by the Washington Journal host at 1:59, and also here
by the KC Star:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/13235952.htm

In 29 counties there were more registered voters than citizens of voting
age. Missouri was a swing state.

[Stevepol]

3. Liked his fraudulent caller point especially.

Mark brought up something I hadn't thought about before: sometimes these callers to C-Span could be "fraudulent." He suggested this after a caller identified himself as a one-time Democrat who had (I believe he said this) participated in vote fraud in Chicago or was aware of all the Democrat vote fraud there and in Maryland. The guy seemed indignant about this and had the usual arrogance and nasty frame of mind, hurling insults at Miller.

Miller reminded viewers of how in many cases of vote fraud one way the Dems and Repubs would carry out vote fraud was by having people pretend to be supporters of the other side. He said he wouldn't be surprised if the caller was fraudulent himself.

I think some of these half insane callers from the far right claiming to have been Dems are very possibly plants, people who have prepared that line as a way of discrediting Dems. The whole thing smells phony but I hadn't heard anybody say that on C-Span before.

[nicknameless]

4. Yes. Typical callers to talk shows, like Bernie Ward's, that begin their

spiel with, "I've been a long-time Democrat", and then proceed to spew a stream of right wing hooey, are easy to spot as frauds.

And yeah, the guy said that he had voted multiple times in an election! Although he could well have been lying -- what a jerk!
(Not to mention, if true, what a criminal)

:eyes:

[Land Shark]

7. I'd turn it around and say "given your personal experience as a "Dem" ..."

is there any reason to expect that Republicans didn't do the same and worse?

On another level, this caller is vouching for the existenec of election fraud. This is PROGRESS since denial of its existence is one of the barriers this thread is discussing!

[Paradise]

5. excellent spokseman! n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

6. Wow. He covers it very well. Holds his ground.

[Bill Bored]

8. He did a fine job!

Not to nitpick, but he let one HAVA remark go by that was all wrong. I think it was someone from CT, home of the Democrat election privatization advocate, Sen. Chris Dodd.

HAVA does NOT require replacement of punch cards or lever machines, (although the EAC has flip flopped on the lever machine issue). The EAC is NOT the law however and the only thing the law says is that the voting SYSTEM must produce a paper audit trail (and of course we know, it does NOT have to be a voter-verified one!).

[petgoat]

9. I could be wrong, Bill, but I believe the CT caller said HAVA

required handicapped-friendly voting machines and that's why the
change was being made. It was late in the program.

[demodonkey]

10. HAVA does require accessible voting, but only 1 unit per precinct...

So if you have one accessible unit per precinct, such as an AutoMARK and scanner, punch cards CAN still be used (with voter education provided to prevent overvotes, as per other requirements of HAVA.)

As per levers, they are NOT outlawed, but the EAC issued an advisory in early September, basically saying that lever machines are unlikely to comply with the audit requirement for HAVA due to the fact that they do not make a record of each individual transaction, and instead only tabulate the total number of votes for a candidate or issue (as on an odometer.) To go against this EAC Advisory would risk being declared out of compliance by the Department of Justice and would probably bring on an expensive court battle for any state that does it.

Hope this helps,
Marybeth

[Bill Bored]

13. Not one per precinct, one per POLLING PLACE.

And yes, a state that keeps its lever machines might risk a lawsuit (even though the EAC does NOT make law).

But to that, I say BRING IT ON!

Let the GAO report and all the other evidence about these faulty machines come out in court. They won't be able to sell another DRE for the next 10 years in any state in the union after it's all done!

So GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY!

And of course you and I both know that there's nothing in the HAVA statute itself that says the paper audit trail has to be per vote or even voter verified. That's just a myth propagated by the EAC to keep DREs that do not produce VVPATs in the mix. They claim the machines can print out these records (ballots) after the election. But the law does not even require that.

HAVA is just bad law, and it will either be overturned or ignored.

In fact, Rush Holt's bill may have a better chance of doing away with lever machines than HAVA does!

[Bill Bored]

12. Only 1 per polling place though.

A polling place often has more than 1 machine. If HAVA is interpreted correctly, most of the old machines used in 2000 can stay.

What has happened is that vendors, election privatization advocates and the press have been involved in a HAVA disinformation campaign to get the public and election officials to think that all the old machines have to be replaced, often only with DREs. Nothing is further from the truth!

Here's a link to the statute if you want to read it:
http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/hava.html

Whenever someone says machines must be replaced because of HAVA, this is usually untrue, even in the case of the dreaded punch cards!

The intent regarding lever machines is a bit more ambiguous, but as long as one takes the position that the paper trail from the lever machines can be hand-written, because this is part of HAVA's definition of the "voting system", the lever machines can stay too. As long as the "handicapped friendly" machines are also available - one per polling place.

Watch what happens in NY.

[tiptoe]

11. An earlier impressive Mark Crispin Miller speaking engagement:

Mark Crispin Miller (Audio) -- Initial Broadcast Date: Nov 25, 2005 on KQED (Nov 9, 2005 Address to The Commonwealth Club of California)

[organik]

14. i've transcoded this to quicktime for download

c-span uses real video which absolutely blows, so I've transcoded it to quicktime and put it on my site.

go to http://www.electiontheft.net and go to the "downloads" section to get it.

Enjoy!

[garybeck]

15. MIller ROCKS. he is our new spokesperson. Thank God.

I just watched the CSPAN video. he is the real deal. finally.

[organik]

16. here's a direct link to a quicktime version i made...

Mark Crispin Miller on Washington Journal (C-Span) 11-27-05