I Predict: There Will Be No Unconcession, But There Will Be PROSECUTIONS

[Stephanie]

I am seeing the whole world talking about voting machines today when I was screaming my ass off about them three years ago.

I feel halfway psychic and I have foreseen some of this so here is my prediction, FWIW.

Kerry will not unconcede. It is just impossible, especially with the 3.5 million popular vote margin. It is too big a hurdle to overcome when half the U.S. believes that Saddam did 9/11 and Armageddon is a good thing.

BUT. The vote fraud where provable WILL be prosecuted. There will be trials and convictions up to the highest levels. This administration will be disgraced unlike any that has preceded it. And democracy will be saved by the implementation of a free and fair voting system. Led by John Kerry.

I predict.

[DELUSIONAL]

1. Someone needs to check the pre-election archives

Because there were DUers who predicted that bush was going to do anything to keep the white house -- even if he lost.

Now who were the DU psychics?

[eleny]

3. I felt that as an undercurrent

And Randi Rhodes also warned whenever Kerry seemed to be getting the upper hand, that the Republicans would become dangerous.

I think the climate around here was one of cautious optimism with bursts of euphoria as we drew nearer the election. What a roller coaster.

[Stephanie]

5. If we could reach the archives of the previous DU

I could prove that I was posting about the voting machines before Bev ever arrived here. She was already on it, but I was singing in her choir, and it was new to DU at the time.

[selmo7]

2. Don't forget you are naturally psychic - everyone is

to varying degrees. It's like propensity for playing the piano.
With training it gets better for some folks.

[mirandapriestly]

4. Stephanie, That Makes A Lot Of Sense

and fits well with John Kerry's behavior.

[jsamuel]

6. It was too easy

This is what I have gathered so far:

People voted on voting machines.

Votes were stored on memory cards.

Memory cards were taken out of the machines when they were full.

They then hooked the memory cards up to the internet and transmitted the data to tabulating computers (one per state).

These tabulating computers absolutely needed to be on the internet in order to download this information.

(Here is where it gets messy)

These computers were windows computers with at best, poor security. All you had to do was hack into them (if even that), then open a file and change the vote totals. THATS IT!

[Stephanie]

7. Yes, that's sort of it. Everybody knew it and they let it happen anyway.

*edit - not exactly it, but close. For the facts you could go to:

www.blackboxvoting.org

and

www.verifiedvoting.org

and

Welcome to DU!

[jsamuel]

9. Thanks! I was a 1000+ poster over at...

JohnKerry.com

I have taken a few peeks here before, but I finally joined.

[DELUSIONAL]

10. unmasking a bit here -- My husband is a computer engineer

and so is my brother in law.

Tonight I was telling my husband about how the votes were counted and that there was an internet connection. I've been so involved in politics that he sort of got sick of the subject which is why he wasn't aware of the computers counting the votes being connected to the Internet. When he got home from working with computers all day he didn't want to hear me ranting about computers.

Tonight he blew a gasket (it helped that his MIT educated brother also wrote an email about the e-voting problems to the family). Being a typical male my husband needed another male (his brother) pointing out the massive evidence of vote fraud. But his brother assumed that everyone knew that votes went over the Internet.

I guess it hit hard since he has spent a large part of 2 days seeking and killing a data miner that invaded his computer at work from the internet. He works with secure computers that are strictly blocked from any internet access -- it is already known how to have keep computers isolated -- the technology is there.

Let's hope that a whole lot of people are now awake.

The only reason why the vote counting computer were not secure when the technology exists to keep computers secure is because there was the intention if needed to hack the vote -- this is my theory.

[ozymandius]

8. This is what I want.

I want the taint of fraud and criminal to stick to this administration, the Bush family and Republicans like glue. I want them to be so disgraced that the term, Republican, will carry with it the stigma of Nazi.

[BernieBear]

11. Stephanie May you be correct. I would feel vindicated. n/t

[AgadorSparticus]

12. but wasn't there some talk of machines adding numbers to pad

the popular vote? wouldn't that come out with a thorough audit? i find it hard to believe that bush won the popular vote. i'm still hoping that kerry will take office and bush will be indicted in the massive voting fraud.

[Stephanie]

14. Personally I believe you're right

and that they padded enough votes to boost him over the top in the popular vote.

But I don't see how Kerry could overcome that psychological hurdle. He may be right legally but you could never convince the REDS. You can't overturn this election just on the facts.

BUT if there were any CRIMINAL activities, you could send the perpetrators to jail. Whoever they might be.

THAT I think is the best solution.

[AgadorSparticus]

16. can't you have both? i think when the facts come out that there is

voting fraud, it will make alot of people from both sides of the aisle stop and listen. i think the kerry camp can push the issue and prove he is the outright winner without having to compromise on indictments. there will be a certain percentage of the kool aid guzzlers that will tow the line. but i think the majority of republicans will stop and take notice of voter fraud and damning evidence. it is one thing to question the quality of someone's service, it is another to say quantitatively that 1+1=5. maybe i'm just naive. but i think we can have the rightful president and indictments of the perpetrators.

to add: the key is to shoot for the stars and see where we land. i think that the kerry camp have safely predetermined that no matter where we land, risking indictments will not be an option. they are doing their due diligence.

[Stephanie]

17. I wish that were true, but I don't believe it.

I just don't believe any such thing could happen under these circumstances. Consider that something like 50% of the U.S. still believe there were WMD's in Iraq. I don't see how you overcome that ignorance hurdle.

If you one by one start convicting them of vote fraud, however, you might make a dent in those RED numbskulls, and maybe then you could implement some change.

[AgadorSparticus]

23. i hear ya about the ignorance density. but this is straight on math.

if only 60,000 people voted, how can you have a tally of 80,000? i just don't see how people can deny that. the tallying of votes would have bipartisan presence that would make it pallatable for fairly reasonable republicans.

besides, they've had years of the fearmongering brainwashing soundbytes on terra. they haven't been bombarded with voting fraud spin from the mediawhores yet. their little minds will be more open to votergate.

to add: here's my theory: they are in a bind. should they go all out to discredit votergate? if they do, they risk opening a can of worms. if they don't, we can take the football back from them. what to do...what to do...

[Arianrhod]

26. I don't believe that.

Republicans are not going to hand the presidency over to a Democrat, no matter what. Period. Not gonna happen.

But I do agree that we should put as much taint on this administration as possible. Make it shameful to admit one is a Republican. It's a simple meme to spread among them: Why do you oppose a fair vote?

Maybe then we would have a fair chance in 06.

[mirandaod]

13. I hope you're right.

If we can get the election system fixed, and this administration and the radical right is disgraced thoroughly and permanently, this fiasco will have served a higher purpose.

[snot]

15. Picture this

We can and shd do all we can--in a hurry--to help assemble info and analysis; then will come the legal battles. If we keep up the pressure on gov. reps. and media (I assume y'all are writing them), the investigation will be undertaken and the "story" unfold, and hopefully the general pop. will be brought along. (I don't quite accept that the general pop. is as dumb as the election outcome suggests, since I doubt that outcome.)

Either:

1. The evidence will prove Kerry won, in which case I don't believe Kerry's concession wd be legally binding, since premised on fraud. He'll take office, and hopefully there will be convictions; but you have to be able to pin individuals.

2. The evidence will prove serious tampering but without any clear indication that Bush wouldn't have won without it, in which case we should at least continue to press for reform, but Bush will remain in office. (Again, hopefully there will be convictions.)

3. The evidence will prove serious tampering but remain unclear as to who really won. Given the numbers of registrations and ballots simply LOST or destroyed, not to mention the folks prevented from voting, this seems quite possible. (Hopefully some convictions anyway, at least of henchmen.)

If I were a court faced with eventuality # 3, I'd say, new election. (I'm no expert in this area of law, but I was a federal judicial clerk.)

If I'm of either party and care about this country, we work out a deal for Bush to stay in office pending new election, but we require as many limitations as possible on the damage he can do.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

18. Or As Was Said On Olbermann Tonight

If Shrub gets sworn in, and some months down the road, Fraud is discovered. Unless it can be proven the Shrub had personal knowledge in any scam, then he would still be allowed to continue as president. Kind of scary, in that it might be very, very difficult to prove his actual part in any plot. It could certainly take down some others, i.e. Karl Rove, but the bottom line would be, Shrub would still be president. Although he would basically be disgraced.

[Stephanie]

19. And he has no personal knowledge of ANY decisions made in his admin

So there you go. He's insulated from ALL decisions - they don't even have to pick and choose.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

20. Karen Hughes

And they would probably say that he reacted appropriately when Karen Hughes told him he was going to lose. He could say he was surprised as anyone when things turned around.

Yeah right!

[Stephanie]

21. Let Freedom Reign!

It's the oxymoron president.

[renate]

22. at least it would tarnish his name

and keep Jeb from being re-elected.
I don't care what Jeb said about not being interested. Why on earth would we trust him?

[snot]

24. One who swears, and lies (as Shakespeare said)

Are you sure that's true? We swear him in--that means he swears to serve--but it's premised on a fraudulent election . . . I'd have thought that while HE's bound by his oath, WE haven't promised to be bound by fraudulent results, regardless of whether he had any provable hand in them. I'm just asking. I'd think this was a question for a lawyer versed in Constitutional law.

We face enough challenges, I just don't want to see them as greater than they are.

[madmadmad]

25. i hope you are right.

i don't care if they were to find dem vote rigging- elections should be free and fair, no matter what.

[Stephanie]

27. No matter what.

Agreed.

Welcome to DU.

[anamandujano]

28. No unconcession=no prosecutions

The Democrats could hardlly get anything moving, let alone form an investigative committee in the last four years.

If this thing isn't solved before inauguration, the whole thing is over.

Look how successfully they've been able to keep more consequential secrets, 9/11 for instance.

This will never see the light of day.

[nickinSTL]

29. If this happened, I'd be satisfied

I hate the idea of Bush for another 4 years, but what bothers me most is the idea of the possibility of voter fraud NOT being investigated.

If it's allowed to happen, and no prosecutions occur, elections in 2006 and 2008 will be just for show.