jimmy carter knows, and * knows it.

[mopinko]

what other conceivable explanation is there for his childish pope snub?
when does the commission start it's work?
:popcorn:

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I would like to see Jimmy Carter kick **'s ass. n/t

[Jilly Beans]

2. I'm glad he didn't go. The Bush entourage, including Clinton, made fools

of themselves today.

[Catch22Dem]

3. Clue me in

What am I missing?

[Carolab]

4. Yeah, what's going on? n/t

[Jilly Beans]

7. Carter will head the Election Reform Commission.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former President Jimmy Carter will lead a bipartisan commission to examine problems with the U.S. election system, American University's Center for Democracy and Election Management said on Thursday.
Carter, a Democrat whose Carter Center has monitored more than 50 elections around the world, will co-chair the private commission with Republican James Baker, who served as Secretary of State under President George H. W. Bush.

Former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, a Democrat who lost his seat in the 2004 election, will also participate.

"I am concerned about the state of our electoral system and believe we need to improve it," Carter said in a statement. He said the group will assess "issues of inclusion" in federal voting and propose recommendations to improve the process.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=8000837

[Carolab]

9. With JAMES BAKER?

Who rigged 2000 for *?

Good luck there.

[Toby109]

12. Yeah. James Baker III

is the Bush family's wartime consigliere. He's no Tom Haden.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. That's what makes me nervous

Mr. Carter with him who has ties to W. To me it's a way to make groups like the one Mr. Arnebeck and Mr. Cobb have look discrediable. :\ I don't like this at all.

[caligirl]

11. Carter won't be going with the US delegation to the popes funeral,

Bush, Laura, Rice, Bush Sr, and Clinton are going. Carter had some calls with the WH, Bush? I suppose, wanting to go. The story being given publicly is that he found out who was going, they had five seats given them by the Vatican, Carter is said to have begged off due to the few seats available. I think Bush doesn't want to be upstaged by the one is a true seeker of democracy and peace.

[mopinko]

15. the way i heard it.

musta read it here-
wh called, said, ya wanna go, jimmy says- other former presidents going? -since he is the first one called, they say -no. so he says, ok, i won't go.
anyone else remember that one?

[rpannier]

18. Have to disagree with you on one point

From a person living in Korea and have for a while...Carter is no true seeker of Democracy. He gave the go ahead for the coup in 1980 after the assassination of Korea's elected President. The coup resulted in the deaths of hundreds of University students, labor members, and others and the jailing and torture of thousands of others. I used to truly respect Carter, but I haven't since I moved to Korea.

[mopinko]

22. i wonder

how much of what this government does is actually under the control of elected officials. i think the military industrial complex is really in charge, and they just let the president do some things, just enough so that the strings don't show.
but that is another topic all together. and there is a whole lot we do not know. you could be right.

[bearfan454]

28. You said it.

"i think the military industrial complex is really in charge, and they just let the president do some things, just enough so that the strings don't show."

That is exactly correct my friend.

[caligirl]

23. Here is my source,whats yours? I have to appreciate

being at DU for the times i am challenged to look at matters I know nothing about and so i go read up some. Still not enough to say I can argue intelligently, not as a student of the subject. But your comments sounded a bit based on what others said, kpeople believe what they want. Look at the Kennedy assasination and Oswald. So though I know so little i found this interesting and post it below. I recall 1980, newlywed to a Marine pilot, so my attention was elswhere than Korea. I would say I don't agree with your position.
F2. The Gleysteen-Christopher Cables
U.S. Ambassador William J. Gleysteen was the primary conduit for messages between the U.S. government and Chun Doo Hwan. General John Wickham, who was the commander of U.S. Forces in Korea, was not in direct communication with Mr. Chun in the spring of 19 80 and instead dealt with the Korean military through the chain of command at the Combined Forces Command.

As the most important U.S. official in South Korea, Mr. Gleysteen said, he spent "hours and hours" with Mr. Chun discussing the political situation in South Korea and trying to persuade him to take a more moderate line against the student, labor and relig ious dissidents who opposed military involvement in politics. His meetings with the general in early May were part of that process.

Mr. Gleysteen's discussions with Mr. Chun and other Korean officials were described in a series of highly classified cables between the U.S. Embassy in Seoul and the Carter administration in Washington. The secret cables were labeled "NODIS," which means no distribution outside of approved channels, and given a special code, "Cherokee."

On May 8, Mr. Gleysteen cabled Robert Rich, the director of Korean Affairs at the State Department, and one of a handful of officials with access to the Cherokee files. The title of the cable was "Korea Focus: Building Tensions and Concern Over the Studen t Issue."

"We have multiplying signs that tensions are rising over the student issue, which in turn is activating many other dynamics in the situation," Mr. Gleysteen wrote. "The immediate cause is evidence that the students are proceeding remorselessly with the ch allenge to law and order and appear to be doing so with a great deal of coordination and direction. The government is determined to maintain order, if necessary, with troops but is highly conscious of the enormous dangers involved."

In the cable, Mr. Gleysteen said that "much of the blame" for the situation "can be laid on immature students and radical student leaders." But he added that "President Choi is also very much at fault for adding to the general sense of suspicion rather th an setting forth clearly what needs to be done." The populace, he said, "is grumpy but by no means in a rebellious mood."

The next day, May 9, Mr. Gleysteen said, he was planning to meet with Chun Doo Hwan and Blue House aide Kwang Soo Choi. "In none of our discussions," he said, "will we in any way suggest that the USG opposes ROKG contingency plans to maintain law and or der, if absolutely necessary, by reinforcing the police with the army. If I were to suggest any complaint of this score I believe we would lose all our friends within the civilian and military leadership."

Mr. Christopher cabled Mr. Gleysteen back within a few hours, expressing his concern that "tensions are now rising and government tolerance perhaps lessening" and sharing Mr. Gleysteen's frustration "by the absence of forthright public leadership by Presi dent Choi." As for the upcoming meetings with Mr. Chun and Mr. Choi, "We agree that we should not oppose ROK contingency plans to maintain law and order, but you should remind Chun and Choi of the danger of escalation if law enforcement responsibilities are not carried out with care and restraint," Mr. Christopher said.
http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/kwangju3.htm

[rpannier]

25. Best I can tell you is...

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/182.html
This account also jibes with the investigation by Korean Special Prosecutor Lee Jong-Chang assigned to prosecute Roh Tae-Woo and Chun Doo Hwan, both of whom were found guilty and former Korean President of Korea, Kim Dae-jung (a leader of the student movement).

[mopinko]

29. i wasn't stating a fact

just expressing an opinion. i said i didn't know.
i am certainly not saying that i don't think that "our government" was behind this assassination. i think we do it all the time. i am only arguing that elected officials are not really in charge of our government.
after reading john perkins 'confessions of an economic hitman' i realize how much of our country is ruled by the business interests behind them. the merchants of death, ge,lockheed, etc, first and foremost, but lots of others.
i think it started under eisenhower, he saw it and warned against the military industrial complex. i think they have dug in, they run the pentagon, and they are the ones that really control the levers of power.

from perkins accounts, i know that carter is someone who tried to resist some of the things that they wanted. but that is why he was smeared, that is why he was f'ed with. i think that the rise in oil prices was specifically intended to undermine his presidency.
one of the things that bothers me the most these days is how little about our government is even visible.

[Zan_of_Texas]

5. Well, Carter has poked his nose in on the Cuba issue.

(You know, the issue of whether Cuba can be allowed to exist in this hemisphere without our permission?)

That may be pissing Bush off.

Carter really has all but stayed out of the election stuff up till now. He's one of the few with gravitas who could really pull some weight on this, if he chose to, and got some backup.

[boneygrey]

6. Allow me to play devil's advocate

Did Carter go to the funerals of the two Popes that died when he was in office?:hide:

[NGU]

10. I wondered that too

Still you have to wonder?.....

[TahitiNut]

14. It was before we had formal diplomatic relations with the Vatican.

He sent his mother. At the time, that was seen as an appropriate and graceful gesture.

[boneygrey]

16. We didn't have diplomatic relations

with the Vatican. Are you sure?

[MADem]

17. I am POSITIVE--Here is the full history in a nutshell

U.S.-HOLY SEE RELATIONS
The United States maintained consular relations with the Papal States from 1797 to 1870 and diplomatic relations with the Pope, in his capacity as head of the Papal States, from 1848 to 1868, though not at the ambassadorial level. These relations lapsed with the loss of all papal territories in 1870.

From 1870 to 1984, the United States did not have diplomatic relations with the Holy See. Several presidents, however, designated personal envoys to visit the Holy See periodically for discussions of international humanitarian and political issues. Myron C. Taylor was the first of these representatives, serving from 1939 to 1950. Presidents Nixon, Ford, Carter, and Reagan also appointed personal envoys to the Pope.

The United States and the Holy See announced the establishment of diplomatic relations on January 10, 1984. On March 7, 1984, the Senate confirmed William A. Wilson as the first U.S. ambassador to the Holy See. Ambassador Wilson had been President Reagans personal envoy to the Pope since 1981. The Holy See named Archbishop Pio Laghi as Apostolic Nuncio (equivalent to ambassador) of the Holy See to the U.S.

http://www.geographyiq.com/countries/vt/Holy_See_Vatican_City_us_relations_summary.htm

It's all about the protocol...

[boneygrey]

19. Thank you for the info

I always like to learn something new.:yourock:

[mopinko]

20. carter was the first

president to host an official visit from the pope. with any sense of protocol, he would be at the front of the ticket line.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. When I read about that

that's when I began being even more pissed off. Maybe Bush did that because Carter is on his tail about something? Or maybe it's just Bush being his spoiled brat self. :shrug:

[marew]

8. IMHO Bush is not worthy to lick Carter's boots!

[mopinko]

13. posted in a thread the other day re- carter center

that jimmy and rosalin were stepping down from the board. i think that he has kept his mouth shut because the center has a strict policy of non-partisanship. so, he accepts the post on the commission to investigate the election, resigns from the board, and, hopefully, kablam.
you all know he knows. he has to know.
and the slimy way they cut him out of going. i would say guilty conscience, but you know that is a joke. but the chances for a photo with a telling look, a chance comment, toooooo dangerous. can't even be in the room with someone honest who knows.

[rodeodance]

21. Carter had a working relationship with POPE re: poverty. AIDSs /ect

He should have been especially invited to go.

[flyarm]

30. you are 100% right ..and absolutely..he is the one man from our country

who should have been there, he had a working relationship with this pope! a friendship as well!
on the other side of the coin the pope considered * the anti christ!

fly

[mopinko]

31. so what other explanation

is there? they should have begged him. please let this bite them in the ass. please, please, please.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. I didn't hear about that

So maybe that's why Bush snubbed Carter from going to the Pope's funeral. They were friends and worked together during his term and this was a great way for Bush to get Carter back. So is he no longer working with the Baker guy? Or is it just a front on his part? So now I wonder if he knows.

[Amaryllis]

24. Explain, please. I don't get from your post how you know Jimmy

Carter knows or how * knows he knows.

[Peace Patriot]

26. Prior to the 2004 election, Carter was asked, why wasn't he going to...

...monitor the 2004 election here, what with suspicions of '00 and the new electronic voting, and he said, in essence, that the US election system is so non-transparent, he and his center could not monitor it--it failed to satisfy the minimum conditions for a transparent election.

There is no question that he knows that the Bush Cartel stole the election. I don't know what all his motives might be in joining this Commission, with, of all people, James Baker on it (the master thief of '00)--Carter is not an entirely readable politician/diplomat--but I suspect that he may believe that the US is headed for civil unrest, and possible bloodshed and serious destabilization, and he wants to prevent it. I believe that was among his motives in Venezuela, where the majority poor population (80%, and dirt poor) is rising against the rich oil elite and at last getting very organized and winning elections. They have elected/or endorsed Hugo Chavez three times now, with massive voter turnouts.

If the Bush Cartel--which was behind the attempted coup/assassination against Chavez several years ago, and of course backs the rich oil elite--had their way, Chavez would be dead, and the poor would then surely revolt, and there would likely be terrible bloodshed and repression. So, Carter stepped in to verify the recall election--likely knowing that Chavez would win (in any honest election). He and hundreds of other international election monitoring groups thoroughly vetted that election, which Chavez won, hands down. Chavez believes in empowering the poor--mainly. It's called the Bolivarian Revolution--bottom up, grass roots organizing in poor neighborhoods, and the provision of government services--schools, medical care--for the poor, and it's the first time they've benefited from their oil production (15% of US oil comes from Venezuela).

All this of course is anathema to the Bush Cartel--but there are other globalists behind Carter (is my guess) who prefer to use more civilized methods to control the world's markets, resources and labor. And I think the whole lot of them (our overlords) have their hands pretty full stealing Iraq's oil, looting the US taxpayers, and getting the pipeline through Afghanistan. It was in everyone's interests to keep things quiescent in Venezuela (steady oil supply). So that's the point, I think--and why Carter had backing to do what he did in Venezuela (verify Chavez's election; prevent civil unrest).

Well, just look at the U.S. and where we're headed--to government bankruptcy, increasing poverty, and endless war. The overlords have looted us so thoroughly, there isn't much left to take, except our piddling pensions and any remaining shreds of public services. Unrest is coming--and clearly one of the focuses is going to be election fraud and election reform. These master criminals do not represent the majority of Americans. We all know that. And Americans are going to be struggling to throw them out. Carter must feel that there is a role for him to play in that drama, and it might be in the interests of some global leaders to get rid of the Bush regime in an orderly fashion, and also to prevent any serious repercussions to the Bush Cartel, and any serious reform in the U.S.

This is turning into a rather cynical writing. I didn't mean it to be. I actually think it's good that Carter is doing this. We most certainly need help on election reform. I think he will be helpful. But what we do, after we get back our right to vote, is up to us--and, boy, do we need to clean house in this country!

That the Bush people may have been rude to Carter about the Pope's funeral may just be their natural boorishness--mass murderers and torturers and destroyers of democracy and filthy rich greedbags likely find it hard to turn off their inner demons and exhibit politeness--but it may also have to do with things going on behind the scenes with this Commission. One thing I perceive about Carter, he is tough and determined. He has a lot of inner strength. He has likely tangled with people within the Bush cabal already on election issues. There are likely people gunning for him. We shouldn't be surprised at a petty, bitchy slight such as this, as punishment for some political disagreement. It's the Bush Cartel's MO.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MelissaB]

37. Welcome to DU, mteslamiller!

I hope you enjoy your time here. Reading the posts about the last election and election reform in this forum can be quite educational. I hope you do take the time to read. Also, it's not very nice to call someone delusional, especially in your first post.

:hi:

[mopinko]

27. i don't know

just reading tea leaves, guessing and hoping.

[RevCheesehead]

32. Jimmy is a dangerous man to the shrub.

I agree, I'm sure he knows what happened, not only in 2004, but also in 2000.

We haven't been told all the details of the official "non-invitation." But I suspect that Jimmy saw it for the political showmanship that it was, and said "I don't want to be a part of that."

It's a shame, because Jimmy is more of a Christian than any US representative over there (but I'll add there's still hope for Bill). Jimmy would be there out of respect, not for the photo-op.