After watching Countdown tonight, all I can say is thank God Kerry is

[Generator]

standing up for us.

Oh, wait, that's the Kerry before November 3rd.

The constititonal expert made it quite clear that without the CANDIDATE, recounts and voting irregularties are not seen as urgent.

He was surprised that you gave it up so soon, guess what, so are we.

Kerry, Kerry, Kerry, why do you believe you are a loser when we don't?

[Joylaughter]

1. Outrage

Prposterous! We've been had, cried Joylaughter.

[BayStateBoy]

35. A Candidate Needs to Request Recounts

If Kerry-Edwards don't request a recount, we can pretty much just give it up because nothing is likely to happen. No one takes seriously recount requests unless they come from the candidate(s).

I think Kerry is a fool not to request recounts in OH and particularly FL irrespective of whether his so called advisors think the votes are there. What there is out there is probably fraud and lots of it, and for him to ignore it is unconscionable.

1. Kerry promised that all the votes would be counted. 55 million Americans subscribed to that. He needs to fulfill his promise. I'm hearing nothing but severe criticisms of him here in Mass by people who voted for him. They won't forget or forgive.

2. There is a fine line between a quitter and a troublemaker. Kerry may not want to "make waves" thinking about 2008. But as far as I'm concerned, if he doesn't want to investigate these reports of possible fraud, then he's political roadkill. The soul of Democracy is the truth, and Kerry has to honor that before his own personal political agenda.

3. If we don't investigate, there is little if any hope that we will be able to mount a turnout like we just did. People stood in line for 10 hours to vote and we are willing to let their votes be thrown in the trash. Next time we need those voters they will stay home, so we are slitting out own political throats by not getting recounts.

4. If we don't demand recounts, the perpetrators will take it as an open invitation to commit the same frauds in 2006 and 2008. Kerry and the DNC are delusional. By not acting and fighting we are guaranteeing that all the setups will be in place for our future defeats and it will be a no win situation. We have to take a stand and fight now or else...

5. Elaborating on #4, recounts would serve to focus the national spotlight on the evils and unreliability of electronic voting. The measures in Congress to mandate a paper trail have been languishing for over 18 months. We have a small window of opportunity to act; if we don't we'll never get the electronic genie back into the bottle.

6. The history of voting in America is the history of vote recounts and rigged elections. Besides it's our Christian duty to recount the votes to insure that no crimes have been committed and the will of the people is being expressed accurately. The worst the Repugs could do is accuse us of being sore losers and we could take that charge and ram it back down their throats.

7. Even if the votes are recounted and the final results don't change we won't be hurt for trying. There is no evidence that fighting in FL in 2000 cost us any votes and it won't now. We have more votes to lose by not fighting and everything from a strategic political aspect.

[txindy]

2. He said with "A candidate," not "THE candidate"

Badnarik, Cobb, or Nader may contest in whichever states they were on the ballot, with far less publicity -- negative publicity -- I might add. And that's a good thing, right now. ;)

[LisaL]

7. Badnarik isn't going to contest anything-he said it's too

expensive. Nader isn't on the ballot in OH and I presume he doesn't have the money either. None of them have any chance of winning anything, fraud or no fraud. Kerry is the one who should have contested, and probably the only one who could have realistically contested because I am sure he has plenty of money(considering he collected money for this very purpose).

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I keep suspecting the Nixon apraoch really

But this is just me

[DieboldMustDie]

29. The what?

:shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

38. In 1960, Nixon conceded gracefully to JFK in public...

...and unleashed a legion of lawyers to fight tooth and nail behind the scenes to try and prove Kennedy stole it.

NGU.

[grasswire]

4. Kerry doesn't believe he's a loser

He's just preserving his political future. (It didn't work for Gore, John)

[NJ_Lib]

9. Oh yeah, who will want to hear from Kerry if

he really gave up like this...? Who's support will he have then? Nice save, John...


He will become the most despised man in America...

[truthseeker1]

11. "who will want to hear from Kerry if he really gave up like this ..."

and who will want to hear from the DNC in 2008? Time to start a new party NOW!

[ever_green]

41. I agree wholeheartedly. How many times will we be screwed over?

Seriously people. Stop fooling yourselves. Something is not right here. Maybe we should look to a third party.

[Middle Finger Bush]

13. from a MA voter

he has no future if he doesnt stand up now

gore is a good comparison

[joeunderdog]

30. Another MA voter here will note vote Kerry again if he doesn't fight now.

Only if he's facing a Repuke will he get my vote.

Then again, my vote doesn't count anyway.

[BayStateBoy]

36. Kerry is Poltical Roadkill if he doesn't request a recount

If Kerry-Edwards don't request a recount, we can pretty much just give it up because nothing is likely to happen. No one takes seriously recount requests unless they come from the candidate(s).

I think Kerry is a fool not to request recounts in OH and particularly FL irrespective of whether his so called advisors think the votes are there. What there is out there is probably fraud and lots of it, and for him to ignore it is unconscionable.

1. Kerry promised that all the votes would be counted. 55 million Americans subscribed to that. He needs to fulfill his promise. I'm hearing nothing but severe criticisms of him here in Mass by people who voted for him. They won't forget or forgive.

2. There is a fine line between a quitter and a troublemaker. Kerry may not want to "make waves" thinking about 2008. But as far as I'm concerned, if he doesn't want to investigate these reports of possible fraud, then he's political roadkill. The soul of Democracy is the truth, and Kerry has to honor that before his own personal political agenda.

3. If we don't investigate, there is little if any hope that we will be able to mount a turnout like we just did. People stood in line for 10 hours to vote and we are willing to let their votes be thrown in the trash. Next time we need those voters they will stay home, so we are slitting out own political throats by not getting recounts.

4. If we don't demand recounts, the perpetrators will take it as an open invitation to commit the same frauds in 2006 and 2008. Kerry and the DNC are delusional. By not acting and fighting we are guaranteeing that all the setups will be in place for our future defeats and it will be a no win situation. We have to take a stand and fight now or else...

5. Elaborating on #4, recounts would serve to focus the national spotlight on the evils and unreliability of electronic voting. The measures in Congress to mandate a paper trail have been languishing for over 18 months. We have a small window of opportunity to act; if we don't we'll never get the electronic genie back into the bottle.

6. The history of voting in America is the history of vote recounts and rigged elections. Besides it's our Christian duty to recount the votes to insure that no crimes have been committed and the will of the people is being expressed accurately. The worst the Repugs could do is accuse us of being sore losers and we could take that charge and ram it back down their throats.

7. Even if the votes are recounted and the final results don't change we won't be hurt for trying. There is no evidence that fighting in FL in 2000 cost us any votes and it won't now. We have more votes to lose by not fighting and everything from a strategic political aspect.

[IAMREALITY]

5. Hang In There

One thing that stood out to me tonight is that many precincts are not yet done, and the results are not yet certified. They are unofficial. Keep in mind the Franklin County debacle, a DU member caught that if I remember correctly? But they said they would've caught it later anyway upon certification, so imagine if other 9yet probably different) anomalies are found in the coming days of certification that impact more vote tallies? It is going to feel like forever, but I look forward to seeing some of these numbers certified. Then we can see if any other election day results get changed substantially. God, my knuckles are beginning to sore from my fingers being crossed so tight for a week now....

[Catch22Dem]

6. How do you know Kerry isn't fighting for us?

Mrs. Catch22Dem and I were just discussing this. Do you remember what it was like after 11/7/00? Do you remember the repuke riots in FL? They managed to STOP a recount through physical force. With Kerry's concession, there is none of this, but it doesn't mean Kerry isn't fighting. It's a whole lot easier to destroy your enemy when they don't think you're up to anything.

I could be wrong, but that's just my $0.02

[LisaL]

8. LOL.

Fighting?
LOL.
He didn't ask for a recount anywhere, did he?
He conceded.

[mzmolly]

10. They say you need the "count" first, but I think you may be right.

:shrug:

We have to appeal to Kerry to take up this fight. HE works for US!

[Catch22Dem]

17. Or we could just laugh in my face...

:eyes: thanks

[LisaL]

19. Sorry. I prefer not to bury my head in the sand.

[Catch22Dem]

20. Is that what you think I'm doing, or is that what you think Kerry is doing

Which? All I'm doing is giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt. Surely he's earned it.

[ever_green]

42. It doesn't appear he gives two hoots.

I'm losing hope and patience.

[Middle Finger Bush]

14. why would kerry have to hide it if he's really working

that makes no sense

[Catch22Dem]

15. I didn't say anything about Kerry "hiding"

But you gotta admit, IF he's fighting for us, he's having a much easier time than Gore. Gore couldn't get a break because throngs of repukes took to the streets. Fortunately, we don't have that going on right now. There are a lot of investigations going on, and according to the front page of DU, Kerry is very much on top of them and very interested in following them. DO you think the man is stupid?

[LisaL]

18. No, I don't think the man is stupid.

That's why I find it hard to believe Kerry thinks Bush won fair and squire. As for Kerry fighting, he sure has an easy time of it because, well, he isn't fighting.

[Catch22Dem]

21. You're entitled to that opinion, but...

You could at least admit the possibility you might be wrong. I know I could be wrong.

[Middle Finger Bush]

22. i wouldn't say he's stupid

I'd like to be optimistic that he's doing something behind the scenes besides just hiding, but I really cant see how he can gain politically by not taking a leadership role. What I do know is that he's Bu**'s Frat Bro

[EPV101773]

12. please read

http://www.petitiononline.com/USAVote/

I started this petition for just this reason

Please sign & leave comments!

ALL AMERICANS MUST COME TOGETHER.

Absolutely no one can make this change for us

[Pallas180]

16. Nader is calling for Kerry and Edwards & DNC to come out & fight & he's

right.

[Harlan James]

24. Nader could undo all the damage he did to himself

...if he can somehow drag our reluctant lion back out into the arena.

[ever_green]

43. As usual.

Nader deserves respect. And nothing but. His behavior is something we could adopt. We need to end the obvious corruption.

[DELUSIONAL]

45. Wrong -- Nader will have to work hard before he deserves respect

Nader has taken tainted money (funded by GOP money) -- and he got on the ballot in several states with tainted signatures(gathered by GOP operatives).

I certainly hope that he takes on the cause of voter's rights -- as a consumer right lawyer. Then he will begin to win back respect and clean up his legacy. I really am cheering for the old bull dog.

[ever_green]

46. give him a break

It was a relatively small amount of money and he does need money. Think of how hard it is for a third party....you think the media is unfair to Kerry....3rd parties aren't even allowed in the debates.
Besides, if you think Nader is tainted, Kerry is Skull & Bones, funded by corporations, and RICH. I think Nader is more clean than that.
Also, Democrats tried to keep him off the ballot! And we are trying to say now how much we value Democracy...

[pbartch]

28. I signed the petition, #162

and forwarded it on to about 10 people and posted it on a couple message boards. If we all did that, we could get HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SIGNERS

[saracat]

33. And that deals with the situation now how? Nice for the future

but what about this election???

[Oak2004]

47. That petition is calling for more computerized counts

In other words, more, not less, opportunities for fraud.

No. Not for me. Give me pen and paper and people who count.

[jsascj]

23. I'm new to this forum

But have been reading along for several days now. I've been sick about this election. Don't know if it's true or not but Truthout reports that The Ohio DLC is going to count every vote in Ohio and investigate irregularities in Ohio voting.

[Harlan James]

25. Perhaps the key to getting Reluctant John to fight...

...is convince him that the damage he'll sustain by not standing up will be far worse than whatever he'll experience by doing the right thing.

[BernieBear]

26. Kerry is not ignoring us

From: Cameron Kerry
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 3:00 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Election Day 2004

I am grateful to the many people who have contacted me to express their
deep concern about questions of miscounting, fraud, vote suppression, and
other problems on election day, especially in Florida and Ohio. Their
concern reflects how much people care about the outcome of this election.
I want to you to know we are not ignoring it. Election protection lawyers
are still on the job in Ohio and Florida and in DC making sure all the
votes are counted accurately. I have been conferring with lawyers
involved and have made them aware of the information and concerns people
have given me. Even if the facts don't provide a basis to change the
outcome, the information will inform the continuing effort to protect the
integrity of our elections.
If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could
be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to [e-mail]
rather than to me.
The election protection effort has been important to me personally, and I
am proud of the 17,000 lawyers around the country who helped. It's
obvious that we have a way to go still, but their efforts helped make a
difference. Their work goes on.
Thank you,
Cam Kerry

[JudyM]

37. Do you have the source link - to post?

Welcome to DU (I'm a newbie myself)

:hi:

[this_side_up]

27. Skull & Bones Corporation of America members

are not losers.  At least in their eyes/bank accounts.

Soon to be S&B Corp of the World

[shib]

31. At this rate...

I say that if Nader uncovers election fraud he should be President.

[Divine Discontent]

32. well...

that's a noble idea! ;)

[Carolab]

39. AGREED

He's the only one who seems to give a shit

[this_side_up]

40. Sib, Carolab, themartyred.... I agree

I hope Nader comes through as the Dems
appear so weakkneed and spineless.

I do wish Dems would stop with the
Just Wait Until '08!! because 06
comes first and that is when the
Republicans will lock everything up
tighter than anyone can imagine.

Voter fraud MUST stop, here and now.

Never again. Or are those famous last words?

[ever_green]

44. Hell yeah. I bet most of us would have voted 4 him if we weren't scared

of *. Bless him.

[snot]

34. Staying alive

I certainly wish there were some leader to step up and start fixing this, or at least tell us what to do. But hey, my theory is that that's what many Republican voters want, only moreso--a benevolent father/authority figure to keep them safe, and lay down the law.

But this may be an instance in which it really is best for we, the people to spearhead the issue from the grassroots level.

No matter how great the evidence of fraud may ultimately be, we should expect in return not just attack and spin, but a huge battle. Those who demand investigation will not just be called a muckrakers, sore losers, paranoiacs, etc., but will be bombarded with everything the other side can muster. Lies will be told about them; their credibility will be undermined; their careers may be destroyed. If Kerry had demanded a recount or the like, there would have been a firestorm.

Because if election fraud on the most ambitious scale ever imagined has, in fact, been committed, those who engineered or condoned it have even more to lose than we do.

I don’t think Bush will be quickly ousted under almost any scenario; it’s going to take a bit of time to assemble and analyze the evidence and certainly more time to get through the legal battles.

But if there is a really huge, continuing outcry by enough people, the investigation will be commenced, and at some point, Kerry or others can step into the lead, without seeming like mere muckrakers.

For now, I think it's really important that we keep up our energy and determination, keep raising a hue and cry, and keep pushing the ball along.

[MikeNY]

48. Reason why Kerry didn't contest it

People with some reasonable ability to think critically have noticed and read up on the irregularities and problems during this election. In some cases, these problems show potential evidence of systematic vote fraud.

BUT,

Remember what happened when Gore contested the election in 2000? Do you really believe that Gore wanted to settle down and quit politics? The truth is that the contesting of the election itself caused such an uproar that moderates and people who supported Gore stopped supporting him. If he were to continue his political career after contesting the election and lost, people would always use it against him. I can imagine the political commercials now, about the candidate who "made America live in indecision for a month". Keep in mind that I am not blaming Gore for fairly challenging the results, but his political opponents and others most certainly would.

Maybe Kerry does not want to repeat this. He does not want his career to go down the toilet, and you cannot blame him. I also believe there is the possibility, if things go well, or shall we say poorly for Bush and the Republicans (I tend to believe things will definately go down hill from here), he has a good chance of being a popular political figure in 2008. Believe it or not, there is a pretty good chance that he could run again, and win, if the Republican vision for America turns out to be crap, which it is.

[maythebestmanwin]

49. Kerry is a patriot, are you.

The man took lead for this country in VietNam.
What have you done lately?

Sure he could stir up a ruckus, and leave us with a leadership vacuum in the middle of a war.

he decided not to do that, and I am proud of him. He is in an excellent position to keep W in line from his Senate seat.

I say, republicans, just watch out for 2006 cause it's going to bite you in the ass.

[LisaL]

50. You are not fooling anyone, really.

Watch for 2006? What is going happen in 2006? You are going to Diebold every democrat running for re-election in 2006?
Sell crazy some place they are going to need it.
:nuke: