Looks like New Mexico pushed through PAPER BALLOTS!!!

[loudsue]

Disclaimer: I'm going to have to start this thread and then leave (shortly)! Sorry about that! I'll still be here for a few minutes, but I've got to go to work soon.
__________


I got this e-mail today from a friend (activist) in New Mexico. Their group has been busting their tails getting New Mexico to insist on paper ballots in the future. They still have to attack the "counting machines", but at least, this is a start! If they need an audit, they'll have some paper to count!

Here's the e-mail:

It is looking like New Mexico will have voter verified audit trails/paper
ballots. Yeah!
Denise

----- Original Message -----
From: XXXX
To: <[e-mail]>
Cc: <XXXXX
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Thanks to everyone


>
> Charlie, You were always the expert voice of reason. When the issues got complex, you led us through the maze. What a wonderful combination of people and what a happy ending. Thanks to all.

Becky

The bills that passed, and one hopes will be signed by the governor, give us Voter verifiable paper trails. There are more things we could want, both in law and administrative policy, but we have now assured the raw material we need will be there: vvpat machines. And there will be many things we can now do to encourage sensible decisions by clerks such as urging optical scan combined with assistive technologies become the norm.

But for a moment we can all breathe a sigh of relief and thank some hard working folks in the VVNM group.

Robert Stearns has been instrumental in closing this deal and became our key voice in these final days of legislative action. Some quieter voices also played big roles too. Steve Fettig spent so much time at the legislature he had to register as a lobbiest. Kathy Campbell, Becky Shankland and others in the League of Women Voters used their influence to steer policy. And of course the Steering committee (Bob, Pat Leahan, Kim Kirkpatrick, Mitch Buzek, myself and formerly David Kraig) did our best to keep this going over the long haul and shape the discussion. We had help from people in Otero, and Taos, and Santa Fe and Los Alamos and even a few in Albuquerque. David Stupin and Lehland Lerman kept on hammering through the media. Denise worked the media in otero county. We had support from Pam who was our liason to verified voting.org.

And I'm sure I'm failing to mention many more of the folks we need to thank. And I have not even mentioned all the folks in the affiliated
organizations that worked with Verified Voting New Mexico.

And thank yourself. When we started there was very little hope we
would get this far. I'm so proud of all of you. You changed your
world. congratulations!

Celebrate! but we're not quite done.


:bounce: This is GREAT news! We need to keep hammering away at the State level, and then take on the members of some County boards who are opting for "lazy" instead of "Democracy". Each State needs their own activists working on this, like New Mexico has done, and others are doing!

But, first, we have to get the State legislatures on board!

F*** the creeps in Washington who are too busy schmoozing to pay attention and bring back Democracy!!

[babylonsister]

1. Wonderful news! Now, if only other states take note!

Thanks for a bit of optimism! :toast:

[uppityperson]

2. Thanks for the good news, woohooo!

Great job everyone who helped, congratulations and onward.

[In Truth We Trust]

3. Paper ballots NOW!!!! Hand counts Now!!!!!

keep the scanners out!!!!!!!!!

[Carolab]

4. Why are you celebrating this?

We need to be demanding paper BALLOTS, not just paper trails.

Paper trails are merely records of what the electronic voting machines supposedly record. The hacking goes on inside the machines, in the process of "tabulation". There is no way you can know if hacking has happened unless you count the votes on the physical records. Unless you have a tight election triggering a full HAND recount of the paper records, or unless there is a discrepancy between what random audits show the machines say versus what the ballots say, you can NEVER know that the vote count is accurate!

We need paper BALLOTS that are hand counted. We need to get rid of voting on electronic machines and digital tabulation of our votes.

[babylonsister]

5. I believe the OP

indicated paper 'ballots' were approved. Are we missing something?

[Carolab]

6. Yes, does NOT say "ballots"; says TRAILS

"The bills that passed, and one hopes will be signed by the governor, give us Voter verifiable paper trails."

[flyarm]

7. from what i understand..

and i can not say i am a good judge but from what i have been led to understand and have been fighting with the people here in fla is that :"trails " are simply window dressing and worthless..i have been fighting the people working reform here in fla about this "trails " stuff..trails mean they can cheat more effectively!! i have made a stand here in fla to not even work with those who are doing forums for "paper trails" they are less than worthless...i want vvpballots period..anything less is a joke!
fly

[Wilms]

9. Sematics aside...

Whatever it's called, if it's not counted the first time, we're in trouble.

That said, if there is auditing (is there?), that's an improvement. And for a recount the paper is used.

It's a step.

[babylonsister]

8. I was referring to the title of the OP's post.

Ballots are mentioned.

[LeahD]

10. From ABQ Tribune.....

http://www.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_local_state_government/article/0,2564,ALBQ_19859_3635362,00.html



Cast your vote, get a note

Election reform was a slow starter but found its legs late in the session. Just before they finished Friday, the Senate and House approved measures requiring voter-verifiable paper trails, voter identification and other measures.

That portends a paper-heavy election next time around. Ballot records, signature records, registration copies and other forms of paper trails were written into law in an effort to make voting more transparent. The voter ID requirements, however, are far short of what Republicans hoped for.

[Bill Bored]

11. Semantics is right!

I think our thinking has evolved to the point where if the voter doesn't mark the paper by hand, or with an assist device, it's not a paper ballot.

But if the "trail" is VOTER-VERIFIED, it's an improvement over no voter-verified paper at all.

That said, you can hand count the paper ballots, or you can Op Scan them. Both would be initial counts, whereas the "trails" would only be used for audits and recounts.

But whether you have a DRE with a VVPT or a paper ballot, optically scanned, your law should require random auditing of some percentage of machines or precincts in order to catch fraud. I hope it does! And if not, get Bill Richardson to put it in there before he signs it!

[Wilms]

12. Thanks for correcting me about an OpScaned intial count.

Now. What about them OpScans?

[BeFree]

14. Break out the "Sledge Hammers"

So....we get us a little ol' Paper Trail. Not much, but better than what we had. We're gaining.

So...... what can we do? Well, we have some kind of an audit written into these bills, right? Guess what? We all have to learn, and teach others, how to do an election audit.

2006 election headline: "Citizen Election Auditors Find Rampant Fraud"

[Carolab]

15. The problem with paper "trails" versus records is this.

A paper record, even if it IS voter verified, can still be a false record of what is in the machines. In other words, even though the voter verifies the record and it gets dropped into a ballot box, when it comes down to it, the tallies can still be manipulated and no one will be the wiser unless all of the original records are counted. If there is a "machine recount" the machines just spit out whatever is in them at that time. Who knows if what they spit out at that time is the SAME as what the voters entered and what is on the original records unless all of the original records are counted?

At least with paper ballots, e.g. optically scanned ballots, in order to alter the results one would have to REMARK/fake an entire series of ballots and if the ballots are numbered that would be pretty hard to achieve.

[kster]

13. WOW

now send all them hand counted paper ballot totals from each county off to the central tabulators,and they will tell the tv news who got the most votes. Give me a break!

[Dancing_Dave]

16. This is a positive step in a state where it really matters!

Of course, some more positive steps may still be needed. :grouphug: