ARTICLE: Paper "Trails" Aren't Good Enough. Count The Damn Ballots!

[L. Coyote]

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0503/S00127.htm

Very good point. Paper trail is worthless if the paper isn't counted!!!!

[ArkDem]

1. While we are at it let's get rid of all them modern thangs

that run on that newfounded lectricity!

[stirringstill]

7. Faith-based voting

"People counting paper ballots" has nothing to do with a fear of technology. It has everything to do with who owns and designs and ultimately controls the technology. And right now Republicans do.
Why is that Canada and Germany and most other countries vote on paper ballots and then count paper ballots by hand? Is it because they are luddites? No.

Why not have paper ballots that are counted by hand in public by a committee with representatives of those parties on the ballot. The local citizens take responsibility of making sure the vote counts are accurate and this can only occur if the entire process is open and fair. Following a hand count, DRE machines could then scan the ballots to verify the count and if the deviation is within an agreed upon margin then the hand count will stand and be forwarded to the Sec. of State. If precinct sizes are kept small, the counts could be completed within hours. Fraud will not be eliminated but the scope of the fraud would always be limited in part because the number of conspirators required would be vast to manipulate a national or even statewide race. But presently, we have to have faith in the companies that make the machines and the software that counts our votes. We have to trust that their are no security holes, that the code is clean, that no third party has corrupted the systems, and that their technicians who often are present to do the actual vote counts (usually behind closed doors) value Democracy more than money or more than their Dominionist theology.

Any part of the voting process that is secret or hidden is a threat to Democracy.

[glitch]

9. Good answer - said it way better than I could. nt

:kick:

[DELUSIONAL]

2. WHY did Kerry concede?

I will always question why the Democrats are throwing in the towel and NOT fighting to have the GOD DAMED FRICKIN VOTES COUNTED?

It almost seems like the DNC has become a wing of the RNC.

From the article:


"Perhaps, the Democrats need a crash course in Voting 101. There is an enormous difference between people marking, casting, and counting ballots and machines performing these same functions. People can be observed and machines can't. If poll watchers can't observe the process, then they'll have no real opportunity to discover if vote fraud or miscounts occur. It's that simple. But, it's a simple truth that seems to elude congressional Democrats.

In contrast, the Republicans have figured it out. A HBO documentary that aired on October 11, 2004 shows Congressman Pete King (R-NY) bragging about the upcoming election, "It's already over. The election's over. We won. It's all over but the counting and we'll take care of the counting."

They sure did."

[Al-CIAda]

8. False opposition that is a cancer from within. -eom

[garybeck]

3. what a coincidence, this article came out on the same day

Election bills still allow unverified e-voting:
Understanding the difference between paper ballots and paper audit trails

http://www.solarbus.org/election/articles/0313-ballots.shtml

there must be something to this!

[Wilms]

10. Paper trail...

...sound like something unfortunate occurring while leaving a restroom.

:shrug:

[marions ghost]

15. excellent page on solarbus, garybeck

thank you. Easy to understand charts = a big plus.
We need to get this message out--that's it's the FIRST count that matters most. 2% audits are just not good enough, and since recounts are only ever done as a last resort...these methods of verification are not reassuring as currently practiced. While we work to improve these additional safeguards, it's important to emphasize that the integrity of the original count is the No 1 concern.

Paper Ballots = the only way to go.

[Jack Rabbit]

4. I agree

An electronic voting machine should be used only to dispense a ballot that will be cast and counted with no permanent numbers kept in the machine itself.

I'm a computer programmer. In an environment where the computer software is private property and not subject to public scrutiny, anybody who has ever passed a basic course in programming would have the skills to rig an election.

Democracy is a low-tech concept. The best technology for its use is a printed form and a simple rubber stamp.

[BeFree]

5. A republican democracy

It is bad enough that we can only select from a handfull of politicians to represent us, (republican part) and now just a few companies have the final say on how we do the electing.

It's called tech-no-logic.

There is no logic in allowing a few to decide for the many, that is the republican way. We need more democracy... more people involved, less machinery. It is only logical.

[Wilms]

6. Thanks for posting. n/t

[Junkdrawer]

11. Well said....

:thumbsup:

[kster]

12. Kick ...............n/t

[Wilms]

13. kick n/t

[marions ghost]

14. excellent article

(excerpt)
"In the real world, recounts are very rare. In general, they only get triggered if an election is "close." Many people think that if a candidate wins by a significant margin (as Bush appeared to do), then vote fraud or system failure is unlikely. I call it, "The myth of the margin of victory".

And yet, so MANY intelligent people seem to believe this myth...?!?

[Carolab]

16. Well, no shit, Shakespeare. Someone needs to SAY this? n/t