Election bills still allow unverified e-voting

[garybeck]

Election bills still allow unverified e-voting
Understanding the difference between paper ballots and paper audit trails

March 16, 2005


With all the pending legislation in Congress designed to fix our electoral system, it is important for concerned citizens to learn and understand just what the bills would require and what they wouldn't.

One key issue is how the various bills attempt to prevent fraud by requiring a "paper trail" on computerized voting machines. In order to understand just how the bills accomplish this, and judge whether or not they solve the problem, it is important to recognize the difference between a Voter-Verified Paper Ballot (VVPB) and a Voter-Verifield Paper Audit Trail (VVPAT).

All the current legislation calls for VVPAT, not VVPB. But does it make a difference?

rest of article:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/articles/0313-ballots.shtml

[Wilms]

1. You've done a really great job wrangling this for us.

I wish I read that a long time ago! :)


Re:

"In contrast, some legislation on the state level calls for a Voter-Verified Paper Ballot (VVPB)."

Please list the ones you're aware of. I hope others will do the same.


The term VVPAT, is the same as the terms, "voter-verified permanent record or hardcopy" , and "verifiable paper record", which show up in a lot of the federal legislation. It might be helpful for some readers to have that nailed down for them. (It would have been for me a few weeks back.)

Perhaps, too, if you want to wade in to the nuance of the Touch Screen Ballot vs. the Paper Ballot, unless you think it would muddy the water. It did help me a lot to recognize the HAVA concept that includes the image on the Touch Screen being referred to as a "Ballot".

Thanks again for this tutorial, Gary.

Your nominated. O8)

[garybeck]

3. here is the VT law as enacted

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/legdoc.cfm?URL=/docs/2004/acts/ACT094.HTM

Notice, this wording:

"No voting shall occur in any general election which does not use printed ballots."


because of this statement, DRE/VVPAT systems are illegal in our state.

[Wilms]

4. That's now law? So you guys don't have DRE's?

Do you know of any other state with such law or proposed legislation?

[garybeck]

6. Yes, we have no DREs in VT

Yes it is law now. We have no DREs. We have quite a bit of optiscan though. I've been told there are measures that ensure the security of the optiscans but I'm not well versed in them (yet).

So that link is the actual law. I also have links to the bill as it was proposed, and the suggested bill as worded by the VT voting rights group.

[Wilms]

5. Gary, what kind of paper balloting system did you guys use?

And what was provided for the disabled?

[garybeck]

7. about 60% optiscan in VT

i forget the rest, it might be punchcard. I had a talk with the election "queen" a while ago and she gave me all the numbers. she was 100% sure that our optiscan systems are fraud proof because there is no networking and the cards are checked for accuracy and blah blah blah. I have to read the law here because it does appear to have some measures in it about optiscans and that would be interesting.

gary

[Wilms]

8. I'm very suspicious of scans.

And what about the disabled? Do you know how that was handled?

[garybeck]

9. That law does not mention disabled

There must be provisions in other laws. I think that disabled people in VT are allowed to bring a person into the booth with them. Not positive on that.

Gary

[ladjf]

2. Garybeck: You are doing good work on the single most

important political issue.