John Conyers says GOP House leadership will kill election reform

[ClarkUSA]

We can forget about 2006 and 2008, if this is true. What can we do other than writing to every billionaire progressive in the country and begging them to buy up all outstanding media shares? :scared:

Conyers spoke at length about new developments in his push for voting reform legislation, his investigation into voting irregularities and Rep. SlaughterÕs report released this week which alleged GOP Òabuse of powerÓ in the House.

The congressman also addressed his continuing drive for voting reform, saying he believes that the GOP leadership of the House will ask the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee to quash legislation.

ÒIt is commonly viewed that the leadership may ask him not to hold hearings on election reform since much of the legislation that we created comes out of the debacle of the elections of 2004,Ó he said. ÒIf so, it would be a great disservice. Voting is the bedrock of a democratic society where the people are supposed to choose their representatives.Ó

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=165

Why isn't every single grassroots PAC screaming at the top of their lungs for this? Why isn't Dean talking about this loudly and often everywhere he goes? We need a strong vocal advocate within the DNC to push for election reform and I really thought Dean would be it but so far I have been very disappointed. 2006 is really right around the corner and reform needs to be addressed not ignored until too late, which seems to be the Democratic Party style these days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. call me surprsied NOT

They will regret it when they finally cannot steal an election... and the time will come... or when these seeds lead to a civil war or the break up of this country

[ClarkUSA]

2. I'd love to secede and leave the red states to their insanity...

unfortunately, that's as much of a pipedream as impeaching Bush. C'mon Howard! Conyers endorsed you but since you've been DNC Chairman, I haven't heard a public peep about election reform from you!

[MelissaB]

4. I think he has mentioned it in his speeches...

[blm]

3. I supported Dean because I felt he'd attack the media and BBV issues.

I still think he will do it, but, maybe we should email him again, to urge that he engage on this NOW.

[applegrove]

5. I was always going to have to be done on a state by state level during

this WH & House & Senate. We knew that. Do not loose heart.

[brindis_desala]

6. applegrove is correct. This has to be a grassroots, state by state

movement. We have to be our own media

[MenofWar04]

7. No surprise, is it????

[Wow]

8. State Initiatives?

I keep coming back to the thought that we need to approach this by the state initiative process that is available in some of the states. I don't think any voter (Republican or Democrat) wants to think their vote could be eliminated on purpose, but the elected politicians may not share our concerns, or be unable to act if they do (such as Conyers). We need to find folks who know how to write an appropriate initiative in any of the states that it is possible, and then fund a drive and act individually to go get signatures and start a process that assures truly "fair and balanced" elections.

[Helga Scow Stern]

26. That's what Dean said last night in his speech to MoveOn:

http://moveon.org/r?r=649

Dean starts speaking after 9 minutes and 40 seconds.


He advocates having a ballot initiative in California to not use election machines that can't be recounted by hand.

[Land Shark]

28. A nationally known gubernatorial candidate with support from

Air America (Washington's Chris Gregoire) can barely afford a recount.

Accuracy needs to be "front end loaded" into the counting BEFORE the first results are released. Recounts are not to be done away with, but relying on recounts is a bad idea. Most statewide politicians will never, even if they can afford the cash, have the political muscle to stare down all the media and whoever that want them to concede and "move on".

[Kahuna]

9. Of course they will. That's why the Dems need to run on reform..

in '06. The repukes will reveal their try selves as they try to squash any mention of reform.

[pauldp]

10. NEXT TARGET DEAN!!!

This is really serious. I trust Conyers opinion on this.

We need a letter writing/email campaign stronger than the one that got Boxer to stand up.

GET DEAN TO MAKE ELECTION REFORM A PRIORITY!!!

Sweet Jeezus I'm pissed.

So what's the most effective way to bombard DEAN?



:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Al-CIAda]

12. Yes, it would be logical to assume the voting processs would be in the

relm and priority of the head of the DNC.

[kster]

13. Lets do it

I think Conyers is telling the truth,and there is nothing he can do about it ALONE. He needs our help NOW. We can still work at the state level while backing up Conyers. I think the time is NOW to get Dean and all of us to start an e-mail,letter writing and fax REVOLUTION. Lets make what happen leading up to Jan 6th small potatoes, compared to the support we will give to our guy thats leading the fight for Democracy.NGU

[Carolab]

15. What about Donna Brazile and her committee on reform? n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

27. This committee seems highly suspect.

The academicians on it had their minds made up days after the election.

http://macht.arts.cornell.edu/wrm1/commondreams/commondreams.html

From: Walter Mebane <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:54:35 -0500
To: [e-mail]
CC: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked

To the Editor:

Regarding "Evidence Mounts That The Vote May Have Been Hacked," by
Thom Hartmann

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

Jasjeet Sekhon <[e-mail]>, Jonathan Wand
<[e-mail]> and I <[e-mail]> have looked into the
allegation of vote fraud involving optical scan voting machines in the
2004 presidential election voting in Florida. Based on the data shown
below, we conclude that allegation is baseless. Instead, the pattern
in which counties that have high Democratic registration had high
percentage increases in the vote for Bush reflects the fact that all
those counties have trended strongly Republican over the past twelve
years. The counties are mostly in the Florida Panhandle. Given the
voting history and registration trends, these counties seem to have
many old-style southern Democrats who have not bothered to change
their registration.

[Wilms]

30. That's an amazing quote.

So these three guys think that:

"Given the voting history and registration trends, these counties seem to have many old-style southern Democrats who have not bothered to change their registration."

So these "many old-style southern Democrats" haven't bothered to re-register in, like, 40 years? :eyes:

Is their polling place, perhaps, a cemetary?

[Helga Scow Stern]

16. Dean's words about this tonight.

At the MoveOn houseparties tonight there was a coference call with Dean. He spoke to us and answered questions, including what does he plan to do about election reform?

He said we'll "put it on the ballot, as an initiative...the people will vote for it."

Didn't get a chance to ask what if the ballots aren't properly counted.

But wouldn't it be suspicious if people voted down fair elections?

Come to think of it, they vote down good things all the time because of the spin, or the cheating.

[pauldp]

22. I'm sorry but that strikes me as a really sad reality.

Our only hope of changing a corrupted election process is by tying to implement change directly through the same corrupted election process. The elected officials that we pay with our hard earned money to protect our democracy are useless.

[New Earth]

11. Why would they want reform when the system helps them win?

:puke:

[Bill Bored]

14. It's Sensenbrenner (stupid)!

What Conyers is telling us, IMHO, is to continue to press the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, James Sensenbrenner
<http://www.house.gov/sensenbrenner/index.htm>
to hold hearings. If he gets a zillion letters asking for the hearings, he might be able to stand up to Hastert and DeLay.

Now, I don't know what Sensen thinks in his heart of hearts, but if Conyers has a good working relationship with him, and he gets a lot of mail, he might just hold the hearings.

Sensen has stood up to the Bushies on some issues. I'm not sure if I agree with his stances or not, but the point is he may have enough independence to do as he pleases, given sufficient public outcry.

So if you want to write to someone, write to Sensenbrenner....again! And keep the pressure on until he holds some hearings.

BTW, voting legislation goes to the House Rules Committee, not the Judiciary Committee. The former was not mentioned in the Raw Story piece.

[Helga Scow Stern]

18. Good idea. More contact info and picture.

Washington DC EMail Address:
[e-mail]
Washington DC Web Address:
http://www.house.gov/sensenbre ...
Washington DC Web Mail Address:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Washington DC Address
2449 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-4905
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

District Address - Brookfield
120 Bishops Way, Room 154
Brookfield, WI 53005-6294
Phone: [phone]
TollFree: 800-242-1119



Maybe some floaty hearts will help: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[Wilms]

31. Action Thread Time

:thumbsup:

[lthuedk]

17. How many morons here think for a moment...

...the people in total control will allow any change?

STOP BEING IN FUCKING DENIAL!

This is a fascist state. Nothing exceptional here, rather generic, really.

These are just the manefestations of reality encroaching folks.

[Helga Scow Stern]

19. My goodness, that's quite a contrast to the floaty hearts.

You may be right.

We don't know anything with certainty at this point. Any individual could be one who makes a difference.

[kster]

20. Yes

if you never give up, you can never lose. NGU=NL

[rigel99]

36. i have a team that will succeed

you know how I know?
because S comes to my house in between engineering tests...

because B gives up time with her boyfriend's daughter to come to my house

because M has 2 jobs and still makes time to come to house

what are we doing? auditing, in great and meticulous detail how DRE machine voting is full of crap.

so that when they ask why we are so upset, we drown them in evidence, proof, discovery, open records, fraud (intentional / unintentional / machine and human) etc.

THE GOOD NEWS this week IS COX did not respond to our latest Open Records request within 3 day limit as required by law... we have our first reason to ask for $100, and start visiting them in court...... this is going to get fun!!! everybody should know there are some damn good folks in GA working on this.. my election fraud mailing list has over 150 of us....

it's happening slowly but surely....

[Bill Bored]

21. More and more states are requiring voter-verified paper ballots.

This will make elections auditable. It's just a start, but at least it will be POSSIBLE to get the count right. That would be half the battle and could make a big difference relatively soon. Don't give up!

[Peace Patriot]

24. I'm with you, Bill Bored. I think we're in for a long term battle, with..

...incremental victories at the state/local level, as we gradually get the election system cleaned up and at least auditable. As we elect more people who represent the majority, they in turn can help protect and improve upon the integrity of the vote.

I'm ambivalent about a campaign to pressure Dean on Congressional level election reform, or to pressure Sensebrenner. We have quite a lot on our hands at the state level, and what is the prognosis for Congress? BushCons like their fraudulent election system. Their buddies control it, and keep Bush and BushCons in office. Of course they won't change it! And they don't care about public opinion! They are not embarrassable. They are fascists.

So what is the use of trying to pressure them? (They are furthermore Pod People. I heard them all speak on Gonzales and Rice, and I didn't hear a single independent thought from any of them. They DON'T represent the people--they couldn't care less about the people. They are taking their orders from the Bush Cartel.)

As for Dean, he's saying all the right things about this. He knows what's what. I wouldn't underestimate him. I think he knows it has to be a local fight--and will do everything he can to help.

I didn't fall for any of the glitz and hot air--coming from H. Clinton and others. No way Congress is going to fix this. Why don't they say so? (Well, I guess Conyers just did.) But reps like Clinton are into fundraising and building prez campaign. The real slogging work of saving our democracy falls to US. And am I and others doing this to elect a member of the War Party--a woman who voted for the Iraq war? And to have the corrupt Dem party leaders once again dictate our only choice--pro-war?

I know this about Dean. He was right about the war and had the courage to say so. And being right about the war is almost a litmus test for being right about election reform.

I do think that how we ended up with this fraudulent election SYSTEM--with BushCon companies counting the votes in secret--is a combination of straight-on corruption with the HAVA money and the voting machine companies, involving both Dems and Repubs--and corrupt, pro-Mideast war Democrats, who really didn't care if Kerry won or not, and maybe even prefer Bush, because the Dem power base is the majority, and the majority will never--and doesn't now--support unjust war. I'm talking major betrayal by Dem party leaders. I think that's what happened. I just don't buy all these blank stares we get from Dem leaders on election fraud. How could they NOT know?

So after we get our country back--with election reform, state by state, county by county--the first order of business is cleaning house in our own party.

Ambivalent. I wouldn't refuse to respond to a Conyers appeal--or any appeal re: real election reform. It would be great to see investigation, hearings, a concerted national effort--whatever the odds of reform at that level. It would have big educational value, if nothing else. But I'm so preoccupied with what's happening in my own state, Calif., with DEMOCRATS--DEMOCRATS!--betraying the public all over the landscape on election reform, that I can't focus on the national level. We have a good chance of exposing this crap in Calif. Kevin Shelley left a legacy of strong election standards--it was all passed UNANIMOUSLY by the legislature in '03, and supported by the public. So we have a chance here, to retain those standards, and to fight the execrable corruption that these electronic voting machines represent.

I think election reform IS happening in the states. That's where the action is. Closer to the people. And consciousness of the issue is growing exponentially. Maybe what we ought to be doing is pressuring Dean to help us at the state level. He's inclined that way. Not to say he couldn't jawbone at the national level, too. But we're talking about what should WE do--where do we turn? who do we pressure? how do we get this critically important job of election reform done, in reality?

[Bill Bored]

25. I tend to agree and it is frustrating, though tempting

to think we might be able to get something done in one fell swoop by passing something in Congress, even if it's just Ensign's bill, or a national Election Day Holiday. The other more comprehensive stuff will be a lot harder.

The vote counting stuff might appeal to both parties though. You've seen my thread about how Republicans for Kerry were probably disenfranchised.
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=341483&mesg_id=341483>
I think we need to look at more of this sort thing.

[Helga Scow Stern]

29. I think you are right, Peace Patriot.

If Sensenbrenner had any integrity about this he would have already responded to the pressure applied by Conyers and others. Even if he was for it, there would be so much opposition from the other thugs. That must be why Dean said last night that the only way we are going to be able to fight for election reform is to GET IT ON THE BALLOT. Of course, that leaves the issue, how do we know the ballot will be properly tallied?

On the thread I posted about Howard Dean's speech last night, it was posted that a group in Orange County was motivated to gather signatures to meet the March 15 deadline to actually get this on the ballot!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x342244

And we are making a difference here in this state, bit by bit.

[rigel99]

35. an AUDITED election is not necessarily an HONEST election

auditing whether 3% or 10% or 100% of an election is not the same as counting the paper ballots on election day.

time corrupts the data and the more time that passes the harder to reconstruct what actually happened.

want proof? Check out my latest powerpoint on www.countpaperballots.com... my audit of Diebold DRE machines proves nothing more than the fact that the computers screw things up 1000% percent more than paper ballots and human counting...

Software will always remain modifiable without a trace. No amount of auditing can fix the 'secret vote counting' and profit motive of these DRE vendors...

the only solution is systematic purging of these machines from our system. period.

[kster]

23. Kick...............N T

[Wilms]

32. Land Shark has a good post

"Can elections heal themselves??? (Why Conyers' bill is not flawed per se)"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x342353

[Generator]

33. YES

Where is George Soros? (you have hit the meme-there baby-we need the money people to buy the media)

How about what's the Star Wars guys name? The director?

Anyway-put your zillions into media and save the world.

Oh and we need a DRAFT. That is the only way to stop these people. Because when every Sally and Johnny goes off to kill the terrorists and gets killed themselves and the sheeple wake up and realize DEATH is not a solution to the world's problems-and that greed and lies are the heart and art of everything that Bushco ever touched-

maybe just maybe- we can look at every lie founded on 9/11 that led to Iraq which led to the oh so smarmy false election victory claimed by these thugs.

[rigel99]

34. EVERYBODY should realize the only future is legal

unless we sue the DRE vendors for multimillion dollar damages suits, the problems will persist.

LEGAL / SUING / LEGAL... that's the only way left to us..

so let's all focus our energies on suing like crazy out there.
and since the judges at the top are GOP appointed and corrupt, you'll have to dive as low as you can go, COUNTY LEVEL SUING......

and it has to be harsh and punitive and swift..

that is the only way in my most humble opinion.....

[Land Shark]

37. Agree with Rigel99

and I'm suing myself but remember that lawsuits are an epxensive and largely privatized form of resolution about what direction our country should go in. Those that can't afford or do lawsuits can (just as an example) publicly challenge voting companies and elected officials to debates .... use every opportunity to bring up the issue while being sensitive to whether the particular audience starts out from a position of awareness of the issues or not, and taking them from there...