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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 08:36 PM
Original message
Does anyone know of organizations working with (within?) the EAC?

I'm looking for ways to become more involved in changing the election process, and it seems that under HAVA the EAC has a great deal of power around the issues we have all been discussing. Do people agree with me on this? If so, do you know any organizations working within that system? If not, could you direct me in a different direction?


http://www.eac.gov/programs.asp?format=none

<snip>
The Election Assistance Commission has responsibilities in the following program areas:

Voting Systems - developing, in consultation with the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the Technical Guidelines Development Committee, voluntary voting system guidelines and providing for a national program for testing, certification, and decertification of voting systems.

Voter Registration - maintaining the National Mail Voter Registration Form required by the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA), providing information to States on their responsibilities under that law, reporting to Congress every two years on the affect the NVRA has on implementing federal elections, and promulgating regulations related to the National Mail Voter Registration Form and to the biennial reporting.

Payments & Grants - administering programs that provide federal funds for States to meet Help America Vote Act requirements, for the development of innovative election technology, for pilot programs to test election technology, and for certain programs to encourage youth to become involved in elections.

Research - studying and reporting best practices and other matters relevant to the effective administration of federal elections.
Outreach - communicating information on laws, technologies, procedures, studies, and data related to the administration of federal elections to those responsible for formulating or implementing election law and procedures, to the media, and to other interested persons.

Each January, the Election Assistance Commission submits a report to the Committee on House Administration of the House of Representatives and the Committee on Rules and Administration of the Senate detailing its activities during the fiscal year which ended on September 30 of the previous calendar year.

<snip>




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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. The EAC is republican owned and operated
The Head of the EAC is a fundamentalist Baptist preacher who ran as a republican for office and lost.

They appointed the biggest crook of them all, Brit Williams, to the committee to create technical standards for electronic voting.

Need I say more?

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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Sh**. I was afraid of that. n/t
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. This is about Gracia Hillman, the new chair:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=275011

United States
Election Assistance Commission
1225 New York Avenue N.W.
Washington, DC 20005

--Press Release--

HILLMAN ASSUMES CHAIR POSITION AT U.S. ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION
For Immediate Release Contact: Kay Stimson
January 3, 2005 (202) 566-3100

- In a ceremony led by Members of Congress, the U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC) today installed the Hon. Gracia Hillman as chair of the agency. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) participated in the installation along with Congressman Elijah Cummings (D-MD) and Congressman Bob Ney (R-OH), chair of the U.S. House Administration Committee. Congressman John Larson (D-CT), ranking member of the House Administration Committee, emceed the proceedings.

Hillman, a former executive director of the League of Women Voters of the U.S., will hold the EAC leadership position for one year. She is a Democratic appointee who served as EAC vice chair during 2004, its first year in existence.

“2004 was a watershed year for election reform in America,” remarked Hillman. “It is my privilege to serve on the U.S. Election Assistance Commission with such a distinguished group of Commissioners. Our first year in office was challenging, but we constructed a solid foundation for our ongoing work. New standards for election systems and statewide voter registration databases top our list of priorities for 2005.”

A Massachusetts native who first entered community service in 1970, Hillman has effectively handled both domestic and international issues throughout her career. Her areas of expertise include nonprofit management, public policy and program development, and the interests and rights of women and minorities, including voting rights.

Prior to her appointment with EAC, Hillman served as president and CEO of WorldSpace Foundation (now First Voice International), a nonprofit organization that uses digital satellite technology to deliver educational programming to Africa and Asia. She also served as the U.S. Department of State’s first senior coordinator for International Women’s Issues, developing agency-wide strategies to ensure that U.S. foreign policy promoted and protected women’s rights.

Her work experience includes having served as executive director of the League of Women Voters of the U.S., the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and the National Coalition on Black Voter Participation. She also held positions as executive consultant to the Council on Foundations and coordinator of the Voter Law Policy Project for the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies.

Throughout the 1980's, Hillman championed many nonpartisan and bi-partisan efforts to ensure open access to the voting process for all citizens and the continued voting rights of minority Americans, including work on the historic twenty-five year extension of the national Voting Rights Act. Her political experience includes paid and volunteer positions on numerous campaigns, including a role as senior advisor on congressional and constituent relations for the 1988 Dukakis for President Campaign.

Congress created the U.S. Election Assistance Commission under the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA), which authorizes $3.9 billion for states to enact a variety of election reforms. The agency was not formally established until December 2003, when Congress confirmed the appointments of the four Commissioners.

Outgoing EAC Chairman DeForest Soaries, Jr., nominated Hillman for the 2005 chair position. The motion was approved unanimously by her fellow Commissioners. The Honorable Paul DeGregorio will serve as vice chair. In addition to Hillman, Soaries and DeGregorio, the Honorable Ray Martinez is also a member.

Federal law requires EAC to carry out research studies and produce voluntary guidance on a range of topics in 2005. EAC is working with the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) to develop updated voluntary voting systems standards and recommendations for making e-voting equipment more secure. EAC also plans to issue voluntary guidance for states on provisional ballots, voter identification requirements for first-time voters, statewide voter registration databases and voter information materials.

http://www.eac.gov/news_010305_b.asp
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. LWV is AGAINST paper ballots
And this new chair of the EAC is why they are opposed to voter verified paper ballots.
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Beth in VT Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Judging by their website,
it looks as though they've done very little since they were set up, and there's been significant staff and board turnover.

Doesn't appear up to speed at all.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yet they are supposed to be taking over.
In response to some questions of mine I heard back from my SOS office and in part of that letter was told:

<snip>

"...One of the key duties of this board has been the maintenance of standards regarding voting system. Beginning in 2005, these responsibilities will be shifting to the new United States Election Assistance Commission (EAC) with technical assistance provided by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)."

<snip>


So how does this change the role of Secretaries of State in making the election decisions and administration? I don't want to spend a bunch of time trying to work things through the SOS office, only to find out that they no longer have any authority over those decisions.
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Beth in VT Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. NIST is I believe packed with reps from voting machine companies. n/t
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, jdog. I was interested in this too a week or two ago.
There is some national standards group that was holding an open hearing this week. I posted on it. I'll try and find it.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Here is what I had found on Vote Technical Guidelines Committee:
There are tons of position papers at their site from various parties.


Public Meeting for VoteTechnical Guidelines Development Committee 1/18
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=275046
Meeting to "review and approve an outline plan to establish recommendations for voluntary voting system guidelines."

Is this worthwhile? What is meant by "voluntary voting system"?

U.S. ELECTION ASSISTANCE COMMISSION
1225 New York Ave. NW – Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005
SUNSHINE ACT NOTICE
AGENCY: United States Election Assistance Commission
* * * * * * * *
ACTION: Notice of Public Meeting for the Technical Guidelines
Development Committee
DATE & TIME: Tuesday January 18, 2005 9 am-5 pm and
Wednesday January 19, 2005 9 am-5 pm
PLACE: National Institute of Standards and Technology
100 Bureau Drive, Building 101
Gaithersburg, Maryland 20899-8900.
STATUS: This Meeting Will Be Open To The Public. Due to security
requirements advance registration is required. Registration
information is available at http://vote.nist.gov . Advance reservation
is available until January 12, 2005. There is no fee to attend.
SUMMARY: The Technical Guidelines Development Committee (the
“Development Committee”) has scheduled a plenary meeting for
January 18 & 19, 2005. The Committee was established pursuant
to 42 U.S.C. § 15361(b)(1), to act in the public interest to assist
the Executive Director of the Election Assistance Commission in
the development of the voluntary voting system guidelines. The
Committee held its first organizational meeting on July 9th, 2004.
The purpose of this second meeting of the Committee will be to
review and approve an outline plan to establish recommendations
for voluntary voting system guidelines.
CONTACT INFORMATION: Allan Eustis 301-975-5099. If a member of the public
would like to submit written comments concerning the Committee’s affairs at any time
before and after the meeting, written comments should be addressed to the contact
person indicated above, or to Voting@nist.gov .


http://www.eac.gov/docs/EAC%20-%20Sunshine%20Notice%20 (%20TGDC%20%20Jan%2018-19%20%202005%20).pdf


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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I've looked around their web site a bit too.
Edited on Sat Jan-22-05 10:49 PM by jdog
And it seems like it is intentionally confusing and uninformative. Yet this is the committee that has all the power and will get all the funding in implementing HAVA - isn't that true?

Added: Personally I think HAVA requirements may actually present on opportunity for us to carry through on the election reform we all want. Does anyone else agree with me, or am I misunderstanding it?
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. From HAVA


http://www.fec.gov/hava/law_ext.txt

The Commission shall serve as a national clearinghouse and resource
for the compilation of information and review of procedures with respect
to the administration of Federal elections by--
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. ALL federal standards are voluntary
Straight from the horse's mouth, no less:

http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/scc38/1583/email/msg00263.html
It may be worth pointing out occasionally that the entire Standards program is voluntary and nothing binds the Secretaries of State.

Brit
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. What are you saying is voluntary?
Implementing HAVA?
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. ALL FEDERAL ELECTIONS STANDARDS
are voluntary. The US Constitution gives the authority to conduct elections to the STATE. The Feds cannot require the states to do anything.

The U.S. Election Assistance Commission was created by the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA). The Commission is charged with administering voluntary guidelines for election requirements under HAVA, maintaining a clearinghouse of information regarding election administration procedures including testing and certification of election equipment, and administering the Election Assistance and Help America Vote Programs. The EAC commissioners are DeForest B. Soaries, Jr., Chairman; Gracia M. Hillman, Vice Chair, Paul DeGregorio and Ray Martinez III.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/soaries071304.html
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KatieB Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. EAC is known for taking $ from vendors
Vendors fill them with goodies by sponsoring events at their conferences. The Chair of NC's Board of Elections is on EAC's Board and he's in the vendors' pocket - pushing now in NC for NO PAPER BALLOTS. You are right to want to infiltrate this organization. They are based in Texas, I believe (Houston no less).
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. EAC is in Washington, DC
and appointed by the President. There's no infiltrating to be done.

If anyone has any doubt who owns the EAC, go to CSPAN and see if you can find the May 5, 2004 EAC hearings. Watch the last hour and see the EAC members kiss the vendors. Any hope that the EAC might come over to our side will be dashed immediately.

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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. There are several boards however where we may have some influence.
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 10:12 AM by jdog
http://www.eac.gov/sa_boards.asp?format=none

The Help America Vote Act of 2002 provides for the establishment of two boards to advise the Election Assistance Commission (EAC): the EAC Standards Board and the EAC Board of Advisors.

The Standards Board (acting through its Executive Board) and the Board of Advisors review proposed voluntary voting system guidelines and EAC technical guidance. They play a role in recommending candidates for the EAC Executive Director. They also may hold hearings and take testimony related to carrying out the provisions of the Help America Vote Act.

The EAC Standards Board is composed of 110 members drawn from State and local election officials. Terms of service for Standards Board members are not specified. The EAC Standards Board is required to select nine of its members to serve as the Executive Board of the Standards Board. Members of the Executive Board serve two-year terms and they may not serve more than three consecutive terms, except that the length of service for first members on this board is staggered, with three serving one term, three serving two consecutive terms, and three serving three consecutive terms.

The EAC Board of Advisors comprises 37 members drawn from various national associations and government agencies who play a role in the implementation of the Help America Vote Act and from science and technology-related professionals appointed by Congressional members. Members of the Board of Advisors serve two-year terms and may be reappointed.

The Help America Vote Act requires that these boards have partisan and geographic balance. Members of the boards are not compensated for their services, but their travel costs are paid in accordance with federal law.

Edited to add links to boards:
The Help America Vote Act of 2002, Sections 211 - 216

EAC Board of Advisors Members

EAC Board of Advisors Charter

EAC Standards Board Members

EAC Standards Board Charter

EAC Technical Guidelines and Development Committee Members

EAC Technical Guidelines Development Committee Charter


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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Please read the whole thread
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 10:20 AM by Boredtodeath
and watch the video I referenced. The EAC is a dead end - we have no allies there, and they are working AGAINST us.

Do a little research, read the documents. The EAC is not on our side and we won't get it on our side.

Google DeForest Soaries' comments about election 2004.

on edit (just one Google reference here):
The U.S. Election Assistance Commission was created by the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA). The Commission is charged with administering voluntary guidelines for election requirements under HAVA, maintaining a clearinghouse of information regarding election administration procedures including testing and certification of election equipment, and administering the Election Assistance and Help America Vote Programs. The EAC commissionersare DeForest B. Soaries, Jr., Chairman; Gracia M. Hillman, Vice Chair, Paul DeGregorio and Ray Martinez III.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/soaries071304.html
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I get that you think the EAC is a dead end.
And I'll be happy to view the video if I can find it (no luck so far). And I AM doing research, which included this post as a part of it.

My feeling is that there are committees under the EAC that include at least 200 different people, as well as their staffs. I have been to meetings at my own SOS office and have not come away from those meetings feeling totally powerless or unheard. I also am not willing to simply give up on utilizing some part of this organization given the huge funding of our tax dollars for this endeavor.

Maybe if more alternative voices get involved in the nuts and bolts part of things, such as local meetings that involve the members of these committees, it doesn't have to be useless.

Thanks for your info. If you have a link to that video it would help me alot, but I'll keep looking for it on my own.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Here is the original link at CSPAN
http://www.cspan.org/VideoArchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,&Page=4

What you seem to miss is the incestuous relationship of all these committees. Please note that almost every member of these committees is a member of NASED, an elections official, or an election machine manufacturer. None of these people have exhibited ANY desire to listen to, act upon or consider the concerns of the voters. They are almost all paid lackeys who are owned by the voting machine companies; and the few (like Rebecca Mercuri) who are able to get on the committees to work for us are rapidly shut down and ejected.

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Evidently, the May 2004 meeting is gone
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thanks! nt
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Please understand
Some of us have been working on this issue for 2 years - we've tried these angles and have been rebuffed, ignored, laughed at and called all kinds of names.

I am only sharing with you what we already know to be the truth to help you understand what has already been attempted, beaten back and failed.

The EAC is a convenient excuse for state elections officials to do nothing. Their standard refrain is "but the EAC hasn't set the standards for that yet" even though the standards are voluntary and they damned well know it.

We're in a catch 22 - the state is responsible for conducting the election but they pass the blame for their failures to the EAC which has absolutely no power to make them responsible for their failures.

Voting is a state issue. No matter how much we hope to take the easy path with Federal regulations, we must admit the fight has to be in each and every state. The FEDS can't fix this; only WE CAN. State by State, legislature by legislature.

And, frankly, given HAVA we should WANT the Feds to fix it.

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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I appreciate what you are saying.
I really do. And like I said in my first post, I really am trying to find the best way to do something at a grassroots level outside of cyberspace, and in addition to protesting and writing letters (not that I don't think that stuff is important). I hear your frustration too.

My state (Colorado) SOS was on NASED and is on the EAC committees, and I have established a little bit of a relationship there, nothing huge, but it's a start. (She is holding meetings where the public is invited.) We also have a lot of democratic support in Denver, so I thought maybe this would be one way to focus attention on chamge here in Colorado.

I know there are many people who've been working on this longer than me, but you never know when a fresh perspective might open up an opportunity you didn't see before.

I don't really know - I'm flailing about a bit trying to fiture out how to best use the little time I have available to try to DO something - you know what I mean?
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yes, I DO understand, but....
One of the things that is loud and clear is that we can be most productive at the state level. Each and every group should have a website so that we can all learn from each other what is/is not effective.

Adding a clearinghouse (votersunite.org?) for news from each site to be shared at a central location would be helpful.

We should take from the states/groups who have been working on this and provide a "lesson plan" to draw from.

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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. I just noticed someone already posted THE answer to that question
The EAC is a dead end. The administration has a way of CYAing for every eventuality. We have to find a way AROUND the EAC.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. June 2004: EAC creates committee for New Voting Standards
U.S. EAC FORMS TECHNICAL COMMITTEE TO CREATE NEW VOTING STANDARDS

For Immediate Release
Contact: Bryan Whitener

June 17, 2004

(202) 566-3100

The Chairman of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC) announced the formation of the 15-member Technical Guidelines Development Committee (TGDC)during his testimony before the House Administration Committee today. EAC Chairman DeForest B. Soaries, Jr. said that the TDGC will be charged to work during the next nine months to draft important standards for all voting systems used in the United States. “The appointment of this committee marks the very first time the federal government has become involved in voting on this level. We spent much of our nation’s history determining who should vote. We now turn to the issue of how people vote,” said Chairman Soaries.

The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) requires the EAC to develop voluntary voting system guidelines for voting systems and voting equipment used in the States, the District of Columbia and the U.S. territories. It also requires the EAC to oversee the testing, certification and decertification of election equipment used in federal elections. HAVA mandates that the TGDC draft these important guidelines for consideration by the EAC Standards Board and Board of Advisors, and for ultimate consideration and adoption by the EAC.

Voting System Standards were last adopted in the United States by the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) in 2002. EAC Commissioner Paul DeGregorio, a former local election official from Missouri, stated: “State and local election officials, as well as voter advocates eagerly await the adoption of these important voting system guidelines. The crucial research and open discussion that will take place by the TGDC and the EAC over the next year will be helpful to all election officials, advocates and all Americans. The intense scrutiny that newer voting systems are now receiving makes it clear that these guidelines are sorely needed.”

The guidelines drafted by the TGDC will enable the EAC to offer guidance to States and election authorities that will use some of the $2.3 billion dollars of federal HAVA funds year to purchase new voting equipment in 2005.

As required by HAVA, The TGDC will be chaired by Dr. Arden Bement, the Director of the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST). NIST will provide technical and administrative support to the Committee. Other members of the TGDC come from HAVA-required groups, including representatives from the American National Standards Institute, the National Association of State Election Directors, the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, the Architectural and Transportation Barrier Compliance Board (commonly referred to as the Access Board), the EAC Standards Board, the EAC Board of Advisors, and individuals with technical and scientific expertise.

A list of members of the TGDC is attached.

Technical Guidelines Development Committee

Chair
Dr. Arden Bement
Acting Director of the National Science Foundation (NSF)
Director of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
Gaithersburg, MD

Donetta Davidson
Colorado Secretary of State
Standards Board ( EAC )
Denver, CO

Alice Miller
Director of Elections-District of Columbia
Standards Board ( EAC )
Washington, DC

Sharon Turner Buie
Director of Elections-Kansas City
Board of Advisors ( EAC )
Kansas City, MO

Helen Purcell
Maricopa County Recorder
Board of Advisors ( EAC )
Phoenix, AZ

James (Jim) R. Harding
Architectural and Transportation Barrier Compliance Board
Tallahassee, FL

James Elekes
Architectural and Transportation Barrier Compliance Board
North Plainfield, NJ

Ann Caldas
Director Procedures and Standards Administration
American National Standards Institute (ANSI)
New York, NY

H. Stephen Berger
TEM Consulting, LP- Chair, IEEE SEC 38 (Voting Syst. Stds.)
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE)
Georgetown, TX

Dr. Brittain Williams
Retired professor- Kennesaw State- University of Georgia
National Association of State Election Directors (NASED)
Tucker, GA

Paul Craft
Florida Department of State, Voting Systems Division
National Association of State Election Directors (NASED)
Tallahassee, FL

Dr. Ronald Rivest
Professor, MIT-Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Cambridge, MA

Dr. Daniel Schutzer
Vice President & Director of External Standards and Advanced Technology,
e-Citi, CitiGroup
Stamford, CT

Patrick Gannon
President and CEO,
OASIS
Billerica, MA

Whitney Quesenbery
President-Usability Professionals' Association
High Bridge, NJ

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any questions or concerns at 866/747-1471 (toll free) or directly at 202/566-3118.

Bryan Whitener
U.S. Election Assistance Commission
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. So, you really think it would be totally useless
Edited on Sun Jan-23-05 07:14 PM by jdog
if we all wrote all of these people and asked them to address our specific concerns (and maybe copied media and legislators in on those letters)???

We could then follow up on these letters in public forums and meetings where these same people will be appearing to hold them accountable. Even if it doesn't get covered in the MSM, it would still force these people to be accountable in a public forum for their decisions.

We have to find alternate means to make them accountable.

Edit for typo.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. No, I don't think ANYthing is useless
But I do believe there are more productive things to do, such as getting busy in each state.

I just think we can all be more productive by writing legislators who CAN and will listen than these people who have proven to be immovable in their stance.

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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks for sharing your opinion and experience. n/t
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. I wonder if anyone went to the Technical Guidelines meeting on Jan. 18?
I thought it would have been very productive to go, just to see what we are up against, to see what goes on, who is there, and to see if there is any receptivity. If there is truly no receptivity, we can start screaming about it. We need to work on all fronts.

And I agree, it is worth continuing contact, especially for those who have not yet attempted it. That way we can remain aware of what they are doing. Voting systems have been such a boring, dry, esoteric subject--we all need to become more versed in it and start talking about it.

I wonder if it would be valuable to contact Rebecca Mercuri....

And also what is involved with the new voting laws being proposed by Reid, Kerry (?), Lautenberg, etc.?

Even though no one has paid any attention before, we can't assume that it will remain so. Conditions are always changing, and getting through to just one person can make a huge difference.

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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I went to a meeting in Colorado where they demonstrated a
voting machine with a paper copy that remained with the machine. The voter touched the screen and it was replicated on a paper roll off to the side that the voter could verify, but which stayed in the machine in the event of a recount. Once the voter finalized the vote the paper advanced on the roll, for the next voter.

The most obvious problems I see with that are that the actual internal counting and reporting of the votes would still need close verification and random examination, and the system we have doesn't seem to accomodate that kind of scrutiny.

From what I've seen at these meetings, it will be extremely difficult to pull people away from some type of a machine, so if we could come up with some way to make the machines sufficiently verifiable, I think that would make this fight easier. (Even when people talk about hand counted paper ballots, there is room for fraud.)
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
33. I forgot to say
the Colo. SOS has 4 more meetings scheduled regarding voting issues that I am planning to attend, and would be happy to put something out there. I'm just a little confused as to what it should be other than a general demand for some form of verifiable paper ballot.
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